Of Math and Men

[Rob.Singer]

Rob, even if your one machine that you tested proved to not have been valid, there is no way that your single machine test could be used either in a court of law, or by the media to challenge the video poker industry. One sample machine, one test done in your garage, is not sufficient proof. You would only have the proof of one machine.

This is why I suggested that an independent third party such as Consumers Union (Consumer Reports Magazine) or the Federal Trade Commission or the Attorney General or someone other than "Rob Singer, video poker author and expert player" conduct their own test on multiple machines in laboratory conditions.

You might have absolute proof, but the fact that it comes from one machine, tested at home, will not convince anyone. You might "have something" but at this point it is not evidence that anyone could use to "start the ball rolling."

By the way, I did send a message to Consumers Union suggesting an investigation into this and I did not get a response.

Again Alan, the exercise with the machine was done only to prove it out to myself. Please read my reply to Vic. I was never interested in trying to convince the world about my discovery. There's quite a few players in vp that trust what I say because they understand I've been telling them the truth about my strategy and advantage play for many years. That's good enough. No governmental agency, casino manager, or machine manufacturer would ever be interested in seeing any of this or having the vp community see it, because it's bad news for business. That's my reading after the NGC snub. I do, however, agree with your assessment that the fact that there's one machine out there that tests out as such, does not mean they're all like that and it wouldnt't mean a whole lot overall. I do prefer to believe they're all less than 100% random.

[arcimede$]

Arc, like has been said a dozen or more times, no one makes more ridiculous claims on here or anywhere else without the slightest bit of backup for them, than you. And you say you only use facts?
Backup your winning claims,

I agreed to allow Singer to see my tax returns. He backed out. Any time you want to stop by and see my tax returns feel free. There's nothing else I could ever do to prove I have won. Besides, I really don't care if you believe me. You are a nobody.

backup again how Singer made me use his card in training,

He admitted it on either LVA or VP.com. Albeit he claimed to do it only once. BTW, it's not my claim. It was made by someone who was trained by Singer and who stated that Singer insisted on using his card. When I repeated it Singer admitted it. So, it's no longer in question.

backup your claims that he lost that inheritance you keep spouting off about on the forums, backup anything. What you can't? What's that say about you?

Singer admitted he had an inheritance over on freevpfree (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FREEvpFREE/message/2633) and it's public record that he later filed for bankruptcy.

Like I've said many times ... all I do is provide the facts.

[jatki]

Rob. please let me know if I can go with you to see your videopoker machine test results or whatever it is you have. I offered to do this earlier and there's been no response.

Arc, I've been around on LV A and videopoker.com, and those "facts" you claim aren't even close to what Singer did or said. That inheritance you just talked about had nothing to do with what he told everyone he lost as an advantage player. It was used to help build his new bankroll to play his SPS. That bankruptcy info that was on his site before I read it on any forum, was before he began his SPS. See what I mean about you?

Lets see, by a raise of hands, how many people here or anywhere else in the USA would show their tax returns to someone they don't know. Besides, what's that have to do with you backing down, twice, from Singer trying to show you his math used on his SPS? See what I mean about you?

Oh sure, that slot club card scam you claim I was a victim to under Singer's training. Still waiting for proof on that. I saw what you're referring to on videopoker.com, who couldn't remember it after you lied about it umpteen times there and on LV A? The claim was by that freak poster that also hated Singer, and you believe him. Fits. Singer also posted somewhere on LV A that he did use his card one time during training, and it was because they met at a casino where the student didn't have a card and didn't want to get one. See what I mean about you?

How about you really stick with the facts from now on arc, and maybe you can join myself and him in Az. as we review his paperwork. Is that too much to ask?

[Rob.Singer]

I didn't realize my life was so memorable....

Arci's not gonna appreciate you jatki. Right in the actual thread he provided from vpFree, it explains when my inheritance came into play. The only way to explain how arci described it is by understanding that he can't keep his lies straight.

I enjoy the pressure you put on him about how I supposedly scammed you and others into requiring that you all use my slot card during training. So funny....

Yes, I welcome you if you'd like to ride to Az. with me this winter. If this will do any good for Alan then I'll fire up my motivation again. Where do you live, and is it near LV?

[Vegas Vic]

You're misreading this Vic. I never asked Alan to supply my documentation. I simply explained what I did to prove out a belief to myself, Alan asked to see that proof because he sensibly can't really believe machines aren't random without some kind of proof, and I said I'd bring him to the documentation. That way there could be no 3rd party stupid claims that I just created the paperwork in the last two weeks.

You also missed where it was never my intention to do anything but present my findings to the NGC upon proving it out to myself, but I repidly discovered they wanted no part of it. To me, that is a tell-all of tell-alls. But I also found out that whenever I mentioned this effort on my site or afterwards, on forums, certain disbelievers couldnt't let it go and wanted to see.more....until it got too close to really happening, that is. Then, just as with the revenue-protecting Gaming Commission, the doors shut just as quickly as they opened.

BTW, I've said where I got my facts to sustain my "assertion"; where'd you get yours? On the Internet?

I tested a machine here at my house. What? You don't believe me? Is there some doubt in your mind? How can that possibly be? If I said I did it, then I did it. What's that? You want proof? How dare you take me to task on such a trivial matter as proving my claim. You should trust my word without reservation, just as you expect everyone else to take your word on face value.

[arcimede$]

Rob. please let me know if I can go with you to see your videopoker machine test results or whatever it is you have. I offered to do this earlier and there's been no response.

Arc, I've been around on LV A and videopoker.com, and those "facts" you claim aren't even close to what Singer did or said. That inheritance you just talked about had nothing to do with what he told everyone he lost as an advantage player. It was used to help build his new bankroll to play his SPS. That bankruptcy info that was on his site before I read it on any forum, was before he began his SPS. See what I mean about you?

Can't you read. He got his inheritance in 1991. His own words (albeit under one of his aliases that he claims he never uses). That was when he was still an APer. His bankruptcy was in the late 90s and he hadn't started his SPS (if you believe his claims of winning almost a million in 10 years). You really are a tool.

Lets see, by a raise of hands, how many people here or anywhere else in the USA would show their tax returns to someone they don't know. Besides, what's that have to do with you backing down, twice, from Singer trying to show you his math used on his SPS? See what I mean about you?

I never backed down from a meeting with Singer. Ask him for proof like you do with me. Singer is lying and now you are repeating his lies. That is why you are nothing but a tool.

Oh sure, that slot club card scam you claim I was a victim to under Singer's training.

Lie. I never said you were a victim. So, chalk up another lie.

Still waiting for proof on that. I saw what you're referring to on videopoker.com, who couldn't remember it after you lied about it umpteen times there and on LV A? The claim was by that freak poster that also hated Singer, and you believe him. Fits. Singer also posted somewhere on LV A that he did use his card one time during training, and it was because they met at a casino where the student didn't have a card and didn't want to get one. See what I mean about you?

How about you really stick with the facts from now on arc, and maybe you can join myself and him in Az. as we review his paperwork. Is that too much to ask?

Yup, he admitted it just like I said. Now, consider the other evidence. He claimed a couple of years ago that he received $1500 in freeplay for one month. He also claimed he only played 25 hours the previous year. Let's see if you can come up with some math that supports those two claims. Either he is lying about the amount he played or he must have gotten credit for hours and hours of play by some other method. Figure it out, tool.

[Rob.Singer]

That's what panic looks like as it sets in on a pathological liar.

[arcimede$]

That's what panic looks like as it sets in on a pathological liar.

Looking in the mirror again? I suspect you are starting to get very nervous as I back up my claims every time. We're still waiting for all that math ... shouldn't you be working on getting it posted?

[jatki]

Arc you're such a silly man. Aliases hearsay, tools, digging into other forums looking for things to twist and turn, and SINGER'S nervous? Where's those smiley faces? I need them for every time arc claims to have backed something else up in invisible ink.

Rob, I saw you asked where I live. I'm in Furnace Creek, California, and yes it is very very hot here. My daughter lives and works here and after her divorce she needed some company for a while. Next year I'll be outta here! But anyway, I can meet you in LasVegas for the ride to Arizona if you'd like.

[Count Room]

Jeezus....that post from VPFree was back in 2005. Has this war between Rob Singer and Arcimedes been going on for 7 years? That's longer than World War II isn't it? (1939-1945)

[Rob.Singer]

Jatki, we sure can work something out for the trip. Furnace Creek....THAT hot spot? Wow! And I always thought Phoenix was hot.

Yes Count, arci's always been jealous of and has had a subsequent hatred of me for the sensibility I've brought to the vp world. He just can't stand it that he's never been able to sell me his lies like he has to some others, and he definitely cannot take criticism. But he's really a great bargain when it comes to pound-for-pound fun!

[Count Room]

Rob:

I'm going to stay strictly neutral with this one. It just wouldn't be worth the struggle for me, personally.

[Rob.Singer]

Rob:

I'm going to stay strictly neutral with this one. It just wouldn't be worth the struggle for me, personally.

Not a problem for me because it's all entertainment. But watch out for arci....if you don't agree with him then he'll call you a liar and other names, and if you ever agree with anything about me, then you're one of my "aliases"

[Alan Mendelson]

jeezus....that post from vpfree was back in 2005. Has this war between rob singer and arcimedes been going on for 7 years? That's longer than world war ii isn't it? (1939-1945)

winner winner winner !!!! Post of the week !!!!! winner winner winner !!!!

[Alan Mendelson]

About the private testing of the VP machine: it's all a moot point. Rob can't prove it because the first thing that would need to be presented in court would be the machine. Rob says the machine is now in some casino in North Vegas. The "chain of ownership" and "chain of control" has been broken. The RNG might have been changed after it left Rob's possession. In the unlikely event the RNG was not changed, go ahead and try to get the machine from the casino and present it as evidence.

Case dismissed.

[Rob.Singer]

About the private testing of the VP machine: it's all a moot point. Rob can't prove it because the first thing that would need to be presented in court would be the machine. Rob says the machine is now in some casino in North Vegas. The "chain of ownership" and "chain of control" has been broken. The RNG might have been changed after it left Rob's possession. In the unlikely event the RNG was not changed, go ahead and try to get the machine from the casino and present it as evidence.

Case dismissed.

OK, but the mathematical support for my strategy's development....could that be used for anything here? It's not something that can be posted as I said earlier, but does anyone want to see it?

[Alan Mendelson]

We would love to see the mathematical support. Please post. And if you need special accommodations such as special pages created, I will do that.

[slingshot]

Arc you're such a silly man. Aliases hearsay, tools, digging into other forums looking for things to twist and turn, and SINGER'S nervous? Where's those smiley faces? I need them for every time arc claims to have backed something else up in invisible ink.

Rob, I saw you asked where I live. I'm in Furnace Creek, California, and yes it is very very hot here. My daughter lives and works here and after her divorce she needed some company for a while. Next year I'll be outta here! But anyway, I can meet you in LasVegas for the ride to Arizona if you'd like.

Jatki, when you reply just hit "go advanced".

[Rob.Singer]

We would love to see the mathematical support. Please post. And if you need special accommodations such as special pages created, I will do that.

There's one way to do it that I can think of: scanning all the pages. But it still probably wouldn't mean much unless I was there to explain all entries on every page, and it isn't what you'd call neat. Plus about a third of it is in German--something I told Frank but he said he speaks the language too. I'll keep thinking and I'm sure I'll figure out the best way to do it.

[arcimede$]

OK, but the mathematical support for my strategy's development....could that be used for anything here? It's not something that can be posted as I said earlier, but does anyone want to see it?

Ahhh, the back down begins. Give me a break. Math is a highly structure formal language. Of course it can be posted ... if it existed. This is just the beginnings of what I stated would happen. Singer will never post any math because it does not exist and has never existed. I'd also like to know how the 3 foreign mathematicians he claims verified it were able to do it without it being written down.

This is about as funny as it gets.