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Thread: Bob Dancer agrees with Rob Singer... sort of

  1. #1
    I thought this was interesting. I was taking a look at videopoker.com to see if I could find the thread in which Bob Dancer says he never met Rob Singer and I found a thread in which someone posted one of the videos I did with Singer.

    Here is the video:



    And Bob Dancer says: Insofar as the strategy presented in the video goes, it was wrong. in 7-5 BP, from AAA77, the proper play is to hold five cards. In 6-5 BP you hold the aces only.

    So Bob Dancer would follow breaking up the full house in 6/5 Bonus. Remember that when you play 6/5 Bonus at Caesars on those 25-cent machines.

  2. #2
    I went to read the videopoker.com thread, and was it clear that holding those 3 Aces in 7/5 was one of Singer's special plays he talks about in the video section?

    What's the thing about a poster BS being called Singer? I never thought that even though I didn't read there often, but I did see some of his posts and he supports Singer a lot. That must be why he got accused of it. If Dancer says he doesn't believe it that's good enough for me. Who cares anyway.

  3. #3

  4. #4
    "Bob Dancer agrees with Rob Singer... sort of"

    What Bob Dancer "agrees with" is using optimal strategy for the game provided. It has nothing to do with Singer. What a silly comment.

  5. #5
    Hey I've been reading some threads on a few forums early this morning, which will be cause for this old dog to nap in a few. But I discovered and was reminded of a few things that helps give meaning to a lot of what goes on here. Interesting too. I have to bounce my head off the wall for not remembering or realizing arc = shadowman on videopoker.com. That explains a lot. Similar to LV A, he does the same things there as here, always trying to convert others to his way of thinking because everyone with a differring opinion or play method is doing it wrong. Why he cares I don't know. Where he gets the time to do it all I don't know. Sure is silly though!

    I admit I didn't read everything and don't know why Alan posted his video there yesterday because from what I've just read, there's two or three character posters there who are only interested in playing for comps, golf passes, player card positioning, and they don't seem to feel alive unless they're in casinos and then can post monotonous pictures of their winning hands time and again. One guy even pats his Sweet C on the ass it seems, as he explains his casino trips.

    Here's the fun part!
    But I did run across some bickering among poster backsider (who they call BS for short) and, who else, arc, about of all things, the Military and the USAF, of which I served in for 10 years. This BS guy says he's in a wheelchair and is retired US Army who works as an analyst in Military Intelligence (MI heretofore), then retired and stayed on as an outside contractor probably because of the skills he acquired, then was transferred for a stint to Nellis in LV with some work further north at Creech. I saw where he did leave that forum after unloading a lot of Singer type vitriol on Bob Dancer, who by the way is there to take it. So, from all I gathered, BS is a Singer disciple of sorts, right?

    The argument between arc and BS is where I focused though. Of all things, one part was about the Nellis Base Commanders. BS was saying that there is only one BC who is in charge of the entire base, and I confirm that because there is at every base. Arc was confusingly incorporating all the other Base Commanders (training, flight control, and so on) saying BS didn't know what he was talking about and he therefore was Singer in disguise. It was funny if you were in the AF. Then arc attacked the guy for being a soldier in a wheelchair, saying he would be immediately discharged as soon as he stepped into that chair. Not the case in MI, as they employ the handicapped just as any other business would.

    The whole thing was a fun time for a guy like me, because if you know retired Military people, you'd know they don't appreciate the comfortably inexperienced trying to define how we do what we do from the outside, and BS took it to him. I saw where arc tried to give the impression that he worked with US Army people but just as he does on videopoker topics, he was purposely vague on that too.

    Now naturally there's a faction there riding the arc bandwagon about who BS is, and some tool put up a compilation of similar words written by peoiple he says are Singer aliases. That looked stupid and why would anyone care who's who on a forum? My real first name begins with a V. Alan knows it, but I'll bet that got your blood flowing quicker for a moment. But I did get the point after seeing it for so long on LV A too. Whenever arc runs into someone who thinks like Singer some and he cannot convert him, he goes into overdrive and the accusations start to fly. Quite a psycological study if you ask me.

    Summation: Singer's his daddy.
    Last edited by jatki; 08-07-2012 at 08:51 AM.

  6. #6
    Originally Posted by jatki View Post
    Hey I've been reading some threads on a few forums early this morning, which will be cause for this old dog to nap in a few. But I discovered and was reminded of a few things that helps give meaning to a lot of what goes on here. Interesting too. I have to bounce my head off the wall for not remembering or realizing arc = shadowman on videopoker.com. That explains a lot. Similar to LV A, he does the same things there as here, always trying to convert others to his way of thinking because everyone with a differring opinion or play method is doing it wrong. Why he cares I don't know. Where he gets the time to do it all I don't know. Sure is silly though!
    And yet here you are posting comments continuously ... pot, kettle, black.

    Originally Posted by jatki View Post
    I admit I didn't read everything
    Well, let's see if you do what any reasonable person would do and not comment about things you only partially understand.


    Originally Posted by jatki View Post
    and don't know why Alan posted his video there yesterday because from what I've just read, there's two or three character posters there who are only interested in playing for comps, golf passes, player card positioning, and they don't seem to feel alive unless they're in casinos and then can post monotonous pictures of their winning hands time and again. One guy even pats his Sweet C on the ass it seems, as he explains his casino trips.
    I think were starting to get some insight into your character.

    Originally Posted by jatki View Post
    Here's the fun part!
    But I did run across some bickering among poster backsider (who they call BS for short) and, who else, arc, about of all things, the Military and the USAF, of which I served in for 10 years. This BS guy says he's in a wheelchair and is retired US Army who works as an analyst in Military Intelligence (MI heretofore), then retired and stayed on as an outside contractor probably because of the skills he acquired, then was transferred for a stint to Nellis in LV with some work further north at Creech. I saw where he did leave that forum after unloading a lot of Singer type vitriol on Bob Dancer, who by the way is there to take it. So, from all I gathered, BS is a Singer disciple of sorts, right?
    Looks like you can't help yourself. You now start commenting on things you didn't spend time to read fully.

    BS was Singer as any idiot could tell. Maybe if you work at it you can raise yourself to that level. As for BS, he claimed he was still in the military ... not retired. You really don't comprehend the English language all that well, do you.

    Originally Posted by jatki View Post
    The argument between arc and BS is where I focused though. Of all things, one part was about the Nellis Base Commanders. BS was saying that there is only one BC who is in charge of the entire base, and I confirm that because there is at every base. Arc was confusingly incorporating all the other Base Commanders (training, flight control, and so on) saying BS didn't know what he was talking about and he therefore was Singer in disguise. It was funny if you were in the AF. Then arc attacked the guy for being a soldier in a wheelchair, saying he would be immediately discharged as soon as he stepped into that chair. Not the case in MI, as they employ the handicapped just as any other business would.
    More nonsense. The debate was not about "Base Commander", it was about the term "commanding officer". I can only laugh at your misreading of the comments and then trying to make silly points when you don't even understand the discussion.

    Originally Posted by jatki View Post
    The whole thing was a fun time for a guy like me, because if you know retired Military people, you'd know they don't appreciate the comfortably inexperienced trying to define how we do what we do from the outside, and BS took it to him. I saw where arc tried to give the impression that he worked with US Army people but just as he does on videopoker topics, he was purposely vague on that too.
    Nope, more misreading and nonsense.

    Originally Posted by jatki View Post
    Now naturally there's a faction there riding the arc bandwagon about who BS is, and some tool put up a compilation of similar words written by peoiple he says are Singer aliases. That looked stupid and why would anyone care who's who on a forum? My real first name begins with a V. Alan knows it, but I'll bet that got your blood flowing quicker for a moment. But I did get the point after seeing it for so long on LV A too. Whenever arc runs into someone who thinks like Singer some and he cannot convert him, he goes into overdrive and the accusations start to fly. Quite a psycological study if you ask me.
    No one ask you. You just made a complete fool out of yourself in a idiotic attempt to put me down. One can only wonder why anyone would waste their time going back and reading those comments and then not read close enough to understand what was stated. Now you've added to your woes. Not only have you made stupid comments about VP but you have demonstrated you just want to attack me for pointing out your mindless comments. I won't tell you to quit while you're behind again. You've now fallen to bottom of the pit and you're scrambling around like a headless chicken.

  7. #7
    Originally Posted by arcimede$ View Post
    And yet here you are posting comments continuously ... pot, kettle, black.



    Well, let's see if you do what any reasonable person would do and not comment about things you only partially understand.




    I think were starting to get some insight into your character.



    Looks like you can't help yourself. You now start commenting on things you didn't spend time to read fully.

    BS was Singer as any idiot could tell. Maybe if you work at it you can raise yourself to that level. As for BS, he claimed he was still in the military ... not retired. You really don't comprehend the English language all that well, do you.



    More nonsense. The debate was not about "Base Commander", it was about the term "commanding officer". I can only laugh at your misreading of the comments and then trying to make silly points when you don't even understand the discussion.



    Nope, more misreading and nonsense.



    No one ask you. You just made a complete fool out of yourself in a idiotic attempt to put me down. One can only wonder why anyone would waste their time going back and reading those comments and then not read close enough to understand what was stated. Now you've added to your woes. Not only have you made stupid comments about VP but you have demonstrated you just want to attack me for pointing out your mindless comments. I won't tell you to quit while you're behind again. You've now fallen to bottom of the pit and you're scrambling around like a headless chicken.
    Sigh and this shit goes on and on and on.... You both are men at a respectable age right? Why don't you both act like it......

  8. #8
    I'm 69 Vic, and because Singer's arc's daddy he has to take it out on someone.

    Arc, I just read the thread within 24 hours. It WAS about the Base Commander in charge, ie, Commanding Officer of the Base. BS also clearly stated he retired from the Army and worked as a contractor to them and was on loan to AFMI. Don't hide from the truth. I also saw where you made up some outlandish type of scenario after BS and Frank explained how Frank sent him a copy of his book to his home address somewhere in the midwest. You said they set it all up so BS could later develop some crazy plot because he was really Singer, and all you did was make others laugh at you for trying to cover up a squirm or two. No one believed you there and I don't believe you. Neither does Dancer.

    Get some rest.

  9. #9
    Originally Posted by jatki View Post
    I'm 69 Vic, and because Singer's arc's daddy he has to take it out on someone.
    Your behavior is just as childish. My father is 65 and if he would act like you or Arci I would distance myself from him. You both lack good manners and both seem to have too much time....

    Why don't you both give it a rest!

  10. #10
    So everyone missed the point here. First of all I did not post the video on videopoker.com and someone else found it on the web and they also read this forum. I just thought it was interesting that Bob Dancer pointed out that when dealt AAA77 the correct hold in 6/5 Bonus is the three aces alone. Singer's special play is to hold the 3 aces in 7/5 (sometimes) but not in 8/5. Singer says he doesn't play 6/5 bonus but he would make the same play as Dancer apparently.

    So the point is these two guys are not that far off on one of Singer's "controversial" special plays.

    And my point is that there might actually be just a fine line of difference between special plays and conventional plays. So why Singer is painted a demon is beyond me?

  11. #11
    Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson View Post
    So everyone missed the point here.
    It's kinda obvious everybody misses every point that's been made here with all the childish bickering that goes on. It's hard work "shoveling sh*t". What's also disturbing is that you seem to be ok with it since you don't put a lot of effort into turning this thing around. It's disappointing to say the least.

  12. #12
    Originally Posted by jatki View Post
    I'm 69 Vic, and because Singer's arc's daddy he has to take it out on someone.

    Arc, I just read the thread within 24 hours. It WAS about the Base Commander in charge, ie, Commanding Officer of the Base. BS also clearly stated he retired from the Army and worked as a contractor to them and was on loan to AFMI. Don't hide from the truth. I also saw where you made up some outlandish type of scenario after BS and Frank explained how Frank sent him a copy of his book to his home address somewhere in the midwest. You said they set it all up so BS could later develop some crazy plot because he was really Singer, and all you did was make others laugh at you for trying to cover up a squirm or two. No one believed you there and I don't believe you. Neither does Dancer.

    Get some rest.
    Well, now we know you'll resort to lying to cover your behind. You have also shown your character with your snide remarks about vp.com members and all out attacks. You've provided absolutely nothing of value since you've come here. Quite a legacy you got going.

  13. #13
    Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson View Post
    And my point is that there might actually be just a fine line of difference between special plays and conventional plays. So why Singer is painted a demon is beyond me?
    Alan,

    I don't think it's as much "demon" as it might be "charlatan". If his entire system could be written down in detail (as we've both suggested) and accompanied with video which clearly demonstrates and explains every special play and/or he develops his own "training software" as Dancer/Paymar/Jean Scott have done, then the acceptance might be forthcoming. Until then, anyone who sells something with questionable ingredients will always be classified as a snake oil salesman.

  14. #14
    Originally Posted by Vegas Vic View Post
    Alan,

    I don't think it's as much "demon" as it might be "charlatan". If his entire system could be written down in detail (as we've both suggested) and accompanied with video which clearly demonstrates and explains every special play and/or he develops his own "training software" as Dancer/Paymar/Jean Scott have done, then the acceptance might be forthcoming. Until then, anyone who sells something with questionable ingredients will always be classified as a snake oil salesman.
    I don't agree with calling him a charlatan because nothing's been proven about him. I don't see where he's ever sold anything anywhere near what the others do, and I agree they sell those things to do as Singer says they do, to keep playing money in their pockets. That only makes sense.

    But the most interesting point you made was about Singer doing a true explanation. I'd love to see the entire strategy in print. Alan, you know the guy. Why don't you be the ambassador here and ask him to do it for the curiosity of his readers? Isn't he retired, and shouldn't he have the time?

  15. #15
    Let me try to address what has been written here:

    Vegas_lover I can't be a policeman, a kindergarten monitor, or even a website moderator full time. I shake my head in dismay by what goes on here. Should I just take down the whole damned forum? I might as well. It costs me money every month and I get no benefit from it. In fact, I lost some TV advertisers because of it because they say there is too much "gambling information" on my website. I'm in the TV business and I'm not in the website business.

    Vegas Vic we both know -- and Rob will also admit -- that there are too many special plays and too many variables for him to put everything down in one place. Even when I did the videos with him for his special plays we knew these were only examples. Compounding the problem of an analysis is that I can't even tell you about his other methodologies. I have no idea what RRTT is or SPS means or any other combination of letters of the alphabet. I do not understand his soft profits, I do not understand when he switches games, I do not understand when he changes denominations, and I certainly don't understand how he can lose $35,000 in one session and call that part of a winning strategy, and I don't understand how someone brings $73,000 to a casino with a goal of only winning $2,500.

    I've said this before: I approached Rob for the very first interview because I wanted to know more about his allegations that the machines are not random. That was the first interview I did with him and Rob arranged for us to shoot it in the high limit room at the Hard Rock. After that he told me about "special plays" and because I couldn't find sufficient info about the special plays on the web I approached him again and asked if he would meet me in Vegas a second time to show examples of the special plays. He was kind enough to do it. We shot those videos in my hotel room at Caesars. I've also asked Rob to explain his other strategies here but that never happened.

    I did the interviews because I thought it was important that there be an actual resource where people could see it. His own website was down, and the Internet was filled with allegations about what Rob said or didn't say.

    Personally, I think there is a lot of value in his win goal system. I think some of the special plays make a lot of sense especially those that pertain to triple double bonus, and I admit I once held three aces from a full house in 8/5 Bonus and yes I got the fourth ace -- and that is something Rob would not have done because it was 8/5 and not 7/5.

    Yes Rob has a personality clash and says inappropriate things and I told him, and he knows it. We all have our personality defects... and some are worse than others.

    Frank originally wanted to study Rob's system because he thought it would help cut down on problem gambling. The reality is Frank never sat down with Rob to learn his system. Frank learned more from my videos than he ever learned from Rob directly. Rob was very disappointed, and so was I. And the disappointment was because Frank never really knew what Rob was talking about and never could give an independent, third party report about what Rob does. Frank probably backed out because what Rob does violates everything that he believes to be true -- so we were back at square one.

    This is why I have said this and will say it again: If Rob Singer had simply written a book that says "I beat the casinos for a million dollars playing video," instead of saying "I have a system that can beat the casinos" he would be a hero.

    People beat the casinos for ways many of us will never understand or believe or can duplicate. Unfortunately Rob set himself up for a lot of criticism. If he said "I did this differently and got lucky" instead of giving it a name like the Singer Play System or whatever he wouldn't be a target for the established video poker community.

    My suggestion for everyone is that you try to follow how he won and pick and choose the "parts" that work for you. For me? I like a few of his special plays (just a few, not all) and I like his win goal system. Unfortunately Rob and I have different win goals -- what he considers to be a win goal for cashing out isn't mine.
    Last edited by Alan Mendelson; 08-07-2012 at 04:26 PM.

  16. #16
    Alan, I need a babysitter for my nieces next week. Can you help?

  17. #17
    Originally Posted by Count Room View Post
    Alan, I need a babysitter for my nieces next week. Can you help?
    You can't afford me, or any of my staff. LOL

  18. #18
    As for Rob's acronyms....RTT is Romp Through Town and SPS is Single Play Strategy

    RTT is a brief strategy that goes up huge in demominations....25c/$1/$5/maybe $25?

    SPS is a slower set of step-ups

    EDIT - By the way, you've mentioned the prohibitive costs of running this forum a fair number of times. Can you kindly share how much it costs on a monthly basis, exactly?

    DOUBLE EDIT - From the times I remember corresponding with Rob years ago he said that each demonimation is 400 credits. 100 credits Bonus Poker and 300 credits Triple Bonus Poker+....Double Double Bonus or even Super Double Bonus could be substituted for TBP+. The guiding idea is to increase the game variance within each denomination overall.
    Last edited by Count Room; 08-07-2012 at 05:04 PM.

  19. #19
    It's no secret. Software license is about $71 per quarter plus my costs for my web designer who set it up, plus my time. Overall about a hundred bucks a month. There is no revenue. You might see some advertisements but these are pay per click ads and the click through rate is about zero since people come here to read or post and are not looking to buy anything. I don't sell any "display advertising."

    In fact, there is very little revenue for the website -- period. The website was set up to allow my TV viewers a chance to find additional info about what they see on my TV shows.

    I originally started the Forum because a TV news forum was destroyed by a few disorderly participants... which is pretty much what is likely to happen here.

  20. #20
    Alan:

    Well I certainly hope you derive at least some enjoyment from your forum. I've considered it a bit of a blessing and I've enjoyed the visits. I do see the absurdity in some ways that you are paying for a forum where people can insult you a lot, but you seem to handle it very professionally!

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