Better pay tables than Vegas ?

[OceanCityMD]

I don't know if the VP here in Maryland is legit or not. I got 2 different answers from the powers that be. We have had slots now for 2 years with live tables coming soon. Currently have the video Shuffle Master BJ $5 - $100 buy ins. Real dealer tables will all be constant shuffle type in the future I'm speculating.

Anyhow, I am suspicious of the VP IGT bar top games. I have seen 'hand pays'. Best game for APers is 9/6 JoB , 8/5 Bonus at $1 level and up. So a while back I emailed the local casino and IGT about my concerns. Here is the response.

From IGT Support:
Greetings,

A basic definition of a VLT can be found on Wikipedia.com stating, “A VLT is similar to a slot machine, except that it is connected to a centralized computer system that determines the outcome of each wager using a random number generator. Although the outcome of each wager is random, VLT operators are able to program in advance the total amount and number of payouts that its central computer system will allow at its connected VLTs. In this manner, VLTs can be thought of as computerized scratch-off lottery tickets.”

These machines are different from those you will find in Atlantic City and Nevada as the outcome in an Atlantic City or Nevada casino is determined by a random number generator in each game as opposed to the centralized computer system found in a VLT location connecting several games. Also, in Atlantic City or Nevada, operators are not able to program the total number of payouts for each game, but instead can minimally control the payback percentage over the lifetime of the game, which is regulated by the presiding Gaming Authority and usually around 98%. This type of gaming, usually referred to as Class III, is not legal in all states and therefore not present in Maryland where the lottery is legal so you have machines mimicking those of Class III gaming, but in fact act as a scratch off card because each pull of the lever on a VLT is another card.

Thank you for contacting the IGT Support Center.







From Casino Vice President here in Maryland:

It seems like there is some misinformation that you received from the IGT service center and I wanted to reply to clarify. This is unfortunate since IGT manufactured the games.

I think you’ll be happy to know that all of the slot machines in Maryland are true Class III commercial slots, the same class of slot machines that you’d find in Atlantic City or Las Vegas. Hollywood Casino, Perryville offers 65 video poker games, 52 of which are Action Gaming (multi-hand) type games. I can also tell you that Hollywood Casino in Perryville, MD requested and received waivers so that all our video poker games can offer paytables with payback exceeding 95%. We operate at a 67% tax rate here in MD, so we won’t be offering full pay games. That said, our paytables are generally consistent with what you’d find in in Atlantic City and I think our selection of progressives and multi-hand games is some of the best!


I hope this helps.

John S.

VP of Operations – Hollywood Casino – Perryville

*(Maryland Legislators as of August 2012 have changed the 'tax' rate to 58 % FWIW)


So, how could IGT be so misinformed or worse, am I being out right lied to by the 'Casino' ?
I have deliberatly broken up flushs, straights etc and winning hands do NOT (usually) return on the draw.
I do get to Vegas (GVR) for a week every January and A C 3-4 times a year.

Thanks
Ron, Maryland
Hope this was posted in the right place.

[Alan Mendelson]

Very interesting. Ive played on Class II video poker games, and the machine actually altered the card I held because the master computer said I should have won a bigger payout. That was quite a surprise.

You certainly did get conflicting answers from IGT and from the casino. I found the same casino response on videopoker.com here: http://forum.videopoker.com/forum/fo...s.asp?TID=3194

Did you quote that response from videopoker.com or did you write to the casino and get the same verbatim response? When in doubt ask a third party. I tried to find an answer on the web but the videopoker.com page kept coming up. I even tried the casino's website http://www.hollywoodcasinoperryville.com/ but there wasn't even any mention of video poker.

There is certainly a difference between Class II and Class III games, but more importantly if they cap the paytables at 95% you are really looking at very bad video poker no matter how the games are run.

edited to add: I found this online, the American Gaming Association 2012 report, page 15, about Maryland casinos:

Land-based, slots-only casinos with publicly
run video lottery terminals with distributions
to operators

[OceanCityMD]

You certainly did get conflicting answers from IGT and from the casino. I found the same casino response on videopoker.com here: http://forum.videopoker.com/forum/fo...s.asp?TID=3194

Yes Alan, I initiated that thread last year but was told the same thing (Ocean Downs recently) that the Vice President at Perryville said. So with this on my mind, after losing sessions I wonder if it's luck or rigged.
The Ocean Downs place is 5 minutes from my home. A C 3 hour drive. This is obviously an issue.

[OceanCityMD]

There is certainly a difference between Class II and Class III games, but more importantly if they cap the paytables at 95% you are really looking at very bad video poker no matter how the games are run.

Reminder it says were given exemptions to pay exceeding OVER 95%.
"we can offer paytables with payback exceeding 95%"
9/6 JoB is 99.54% correct ? That is the highest payback game with 8/5 bonus next. These pay tables start at denoms of $1 and up to $5.
DDBP is 9/5.
They do have cash back and food comps not unlike Ac/Vegas as well. Minimally $20 week up to $$$

Ron

[arcimede$]

Generally VLTs have an alternate pay method and will find some way to provide the already chosen result. Sounds like you have regular class III machines. The note about the exception may be relevant. It could be that this is required to install class III machines.

If you decide to play keep good records. I would track all flushes and higher for a couple hundred thousand hands if I had any doubts.

[Alan Mendelson]

I'm curious if the machines you play on have a "pay table" on the games? It was many years ago that I played on the Class II video poker machines and back then I don't recall the pay table or even if there was a paytable!!

[OceanCityMD]

Yes the pay tables are posted on the machines. These are the identical IGT multi game machines like I play in Vegas and A C.
Same video screen, audio etc. There is NO double up feature which I do like to occasionally play.
Supertimes pay only in .25, spinpoker .2/.5/.10 cents only, 3/5 play up to dollars.
No quick quads, ultimate X or the like yet.
And will absolutely not let you take pictures and they mean it.

There are 750 slots at Ocean Downs, the exact same type of games as everywhere I've been. They seem to be tighter. I have gotten 2 nice hand pays $1400 and $1800 . Hand pay over $1200. One I was playing 60 cents a spin the other $5 Top Pay.
Only 20 video poker bar tops though and most folks are playing keno on them.

As much as I would like regular casino's here, much of the tax (casino win) does come directly back into our local community as real cash to reduce property taxes and such. I'm still on the fence after 2 years about Maryland Government being in the casino business. I guess at least most of the win is spread around instead of to a few billionaires bank accounts.