Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 35

Thread: How is this even possible?

  1. #1
    Since coming here I've done a lot of reading on videopoker.com. One poster here says it's a knowledgeable group, another says it's a forum full of hacks, and I tend to believe it's just a bunch of videopoker players who don't know one end of a positive play from another. It has the feel of being taken over by 7-stars people who feel special whenever they get those special mailers and invites, or by players who try to make it look like their significant other female wins all the time while they take it up the shorts. Much more entertainment than substance, only Bob Dancer pimps his radio show there every week. Note: Include me in as one who enjoys his show, even though I think he's wasting his time promoting it to those fools.

    One issue I ran across has to do with our world famous player, Dancer. I saw where he said he runs at least a quarter million dollars through the Silverton of all places, machines every month for the mailers and the club standing (again, of all things). He never says he wins there, only he gives everyone the idea that he wins big there. Then I read on here where Singer says he isn't allowed to play there any more. Since I play there I called my host and asked about this, if they really ban people from playing who beat them up?

    I started getting a response explaining why Singer (I used his real name, hope you don't mind friend!) was banned, then all of a sudden someone cut him off and said they weren't allowed to comment on the status of other players, no matter how public or private. What I really wanted to do was inquire why Dancer, who puts mega-bucks through the machines each month, is not banned, but Singer is.

    Only conclusion I can arrive at is that Dancer gives them a good profit while the other guy doesn't. Anyone have any other ideas that might explain this any better?

    By the way Rob, I saw where you identified your banned status at Silverton recently on vpfree, and not a soul asked a question or made a comment about it. Could it be they're ashamed of their idols, or do you think they're just afraid to make any comments about it?

  2. #2
    I know players who have been banned from casinos, but no one was banned for winning with the exception of known card counters in blackjack. If they were banned it was because of another problem, such as cheating, not paying markers, criminal behavior, fighting with employees or other players, serious disruptive behavior and things of that sort.

    I would not rule out a player being banned for winning in other games for reasons I would consider to be arbitrary, capricious and unreasonable. After all, I ran into trouble at three casinos where it was suspected that I was a "dice mechanic" or someone able to manipulate the dice. I wasn't, I just got lucky and the casinos didn't like that.

    But video poker is a game that the casinos feel cannot be manipulated, so I really doubt they would ban anyone just for winning. There would have to be another reason. However, unless we have personal first hand information we should not rely on hearsay.

    Casinos are private businesses and Nevada law has upheld the casinos' rights to decide who they will do business with and who they won't do business with. Also keep in mind that players can put themselves on a voluntary exclusion list if they feel they can't control their own gambling.

    The bottom line is, unless you witnessed a player who started a fight or attacked a casino dealer or a card counter or a player who can't pay markers being asked to leave (I've seen all of those) then what we have is just a lot of gossip that probably will never be confirmed or verified.

    My guess is Bob Dancer probably behaves himself and is very courteous in the casinos, has a business relationship with the casinos where he plays, and there is no reason for him to be banned or asked to stop playing. After all, how much damage could one player do to a casino? Even known video poker progressive teams don't get banned.

  3. #3
    Originally Posted by jatki View Post
    Since coming here I've done a lot of reading on videopoker.com. One poster here says it's a knowledgeable group, another says it's a forum full of hacks, and I tend to believe it's just a bunch of videopoker players who don't know one end of a positive play from another. It has the feel of being taken over by 7-stars people who feel special whenever they get those special mailers and invites, or by players who try to make it look like their significant other female wins all the time while they take it up the shorts. Much more entertainment than substance, only Bob Dancer pimps his radio show there every week. Note: Include me in as one who enjoys his show, even though I think he's wasting his time promoting it to those fools.

    One issue I ran across has to do with our world famous player, Dancer. I saw where he said he runs at least a quarter million dollars through the Silverton of all places, machines every month for the mailers and the club standing (again, of all things). He never says he wins there, only he gives everyone the idea that he wins big there. Then I read on here where Singer says he isn't allowed to play there any more. Since I play there I called my host and asked about this, if they really ban people from playing who beat them up?

    I started getting a response explaining why Singer (I used his real name, hope you don't mind friend!) was banned, then all of a sudden someone cut him off and said they weren't allowed to comment on the status of other players, no matter how public or private. What I really wanted to do was inquire why Dancer, who puts mega-bucks through the machines each month, is not banned, but Singer is.

    Only conclusion I can arrive at is that Dancer gives them a good profit while the other guy doesn't. Anyone have any other ideas that might explain this any better?

    By the way Rob, I saw where you identified your banned status at Silverton recently on vpfree, and not a soul asked a question or made a comment about it. Could it be they're ashamed of their idols, or do you think they're just afraid to make any comments about it?
    I see you joined the Singer club for making uneducated guesses in public forums. What an buffoon.

    Of course they will not give out personal information about another player. We really don't know if Singer is banned and neither do you. Mr. T had one word to describe a person like you ...

  4. #4
    I see that Arc has been paying attention to the comments of Vegas Vic about decorum.

  5. #5
    Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson View Post
    I see that Arc has been paying attention to the comments of Vegas Vic about decorum.
    Did you even bother to read his comment. It was completely filled with demeaning statements about people who aren't here to defend themselves. It is something you might expect from a whiny brat who's not old enough to know better.

    I think the term buffoon is being nice.

  6. #6
    I read his comment and I read your comment, and I think there is an appropriate way to deal with what could likely be misinformation. You have knowledge of the industry, Arc, and I would hope that you would use your knowledge to make a comment with more substance than you did.

    I've never heard of anyone (with the exception of Rob's claim) being banned for winning on a video poker machine or a slot machine. In fact, such "winners" are usually invited back by the casinos as they attempt to "get their money back." Have you ever heard of a VP or slot winner being banned? Yes, I've heard of offers being reduced but never an outright ban.

    Again I have to refer to the seminar that Bob Dancer held about seven years ago in which he reported annual income from playing video poker of $250,000 with half of that coming from cash back. Someone winning that money in a year is not going to break a casino. Why ban them? Why would a casino ban a player making a hundred thousand a year if they did nothing wrong?
    Last edited by Alan Mendelson; 08-12-2012 at 03:56 PM.

  7. #7
    Interesting stuff. Personally, I think it unlikely that Singer would choose Silverton and make up a story about being banned there. But what do I know?

    Have I personally seen people banned for playing video poker? No. Have I seen casinos go out of their way to make life miserable for winning players (not just blackjack)? Yes. It was sort of like being banned, only not as nice. I have seen casino managers intentionally try to provoke players.

    Anyway, if I had to bet, I'd bet the Singer/Silverton story is more likely to be true. Now we need to escort Rob in there to see what happens. I volunteer. How about it, Rob?

  8. #8
    If I recall, Rob's win at Silverton included hitting a $2,000 royal on a fifty cent machine with $25 or $50 of free play. It would be pretty sad if Silverton banned him for that.

  9. #9
    I'll explain it again as I did several months ago somewhere here, and no jatki, I have no problem with what you did. I wouldn't even have had a problem if someone at the Silverton accidentally gave out my personal story, because it isn't going to change my life one way or the other.

    Arci, jatki was just repeating what he's read from me and asking questions about it. Why are you needing to lie about him and if you had another tough day at home today, we feel your pain, but there's still no need to namecall.

    I don't remember exactly because it's not that important to me, but I did not have any losing visits to the Silverton in my 9 times I went there since staying the winter in Pahrump (in our "trailer" ). I had several royals and a bunch of other taxables on $2 SDBP. I was consistently winning, though I can't remember how much since arci requires exact numbers or he calls out "LIAR"! It was after my last winning trip that I was told I was no longer allowed to play vp there, but (for redietz) I could go to their restaurants or stay in the hotel if I wanted.

    Alan, in the past my two bannings were more than claims and were proven--or at least one of them was, because the letter I received from Bellagio was printed in Gaming Today. It was simply because they could not figure out how to make a profit off of me. I of course was much more ahead there than I now am at Silverton. That's why it's a valid question to me as to Dancer's constant perception-giving articles and posts that he's this big winner all over the place, yet with his supposed quater-mil thru-put at the Silverton, he's allowed to just keep taking money home at will. Not only there, but at all those other places he brags about how much he takes them for as he plunders their slot clubs. Since he's still making plenty of dough off of selling players his BS, they deserve to know the truth....or at least part of it if indeed there is any.

    If you think that smells like a bed of roses, you have never smelled a rat.
    Last edited by Rob.Singer; 08-12-2012 at 07:36 PM.

  10. #10
    Rob, I was just wondering if you've ever left the "soft pool" profits in the machine and mentally kept up where you were in the strategy and maybe cash out two times-once after losing the first 100 credits on bp and once after losing the 300 credits on adbp. Thanks. From your calm demeanor, it seems like you and your wife had a nice time. LOL.

  11. #11
    Rob, if you were "banned" from playing VP for hitting some royals on $2 and not having a losing trip in 9 outings it means that the joint has the mentality of a small bar with a couple of nickel VP machines. That really is sad.

  12. #12
    Originally Posted by Rob.Singer View Post
    If you think that smells like a bed of roses, you have never smelled a rat.
    I think this describes your entire response. Not a single item that can be verified. Pretty much SOP for Singer.

  13. #13
    Alan, now this is interesting. I don't know if you've ever tried to do serious sports betting at Harrah's/Caesars properties, but if ever a company has the attitude of "a small bar with a couple of nickel vp machines," it's Harrah's.

    Their limits are scaled by your status -- in other words, they want to establish that you're a loser before giving you any kind of decent limit. The Seven Stars people, who have established that they've theo'd/donated x number of dollars, get higher limits. And if you actually win anythng over a couple thousand, they want to know who you are and why you're gambling on their property. The only exception (and I'm not sure it still is), would be Caesars' Palace itself.

    If you win a series of outings betting sports, and have not established that you are a consistent loser, you are not treated well.

    I suspect that would be the case with other types of gambling, as well.

    Harrah's/Caesars is not, as Binion's used to say, a "good gamble."

  14. #14
    Originally Posted by slingshot View Post
    Rob, I was just wondering if you've ever left the "soft pool" profits in the machine and mentally kept up where you were in the strategy and maybe cash out two times-once after losing the first 100 credits on bp and once after losing the 300 credits on adbp. Thanks. From your calm demeanor, it seems like you and your wife had a nice time. LOL.
    No, not ever. Even for me that would get confusing.

  15. #15
    Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson View Post
    Rob, if you were "banned" from playing VP for hitting some royals on $2 and not having a losing trip in 9 outings it means that the joint has the mentality of a small bar with a couple of nickel VP machines. That really is sad.
    Not a couple on $2, less than that. One each @ 50c, $1, & $2. I looked at my W2g's.

    This is why I always changed casinos regularly, all over the state, when I played. I understand that they're businesses, and they're operating only to make as much off of their customers as possible. I know management recently went thru a shake-up there, but it would bother anybody that a customer could come in and seemingly take several thousand dollars almost at will every trip in, on average. Chinsy, yes, and this probably wouldn't happen at Ceasars. I probably irritated someone.

  16. #16
    Originally Posted by redietz View Post
    Alan, now this is interesting. I don't know if you've ever tried to do serious sports betting at Harrah's/Caesars properties, but if ever a company has the attitude of "a small bar with a couple of nickel vp machines," it's Harrah's.

    Their limits are scaled by your status -- in other words, they want to establish that you're a loser before giving you any kind of decent limit. The Seven Stars people, who have established that they've theo'd/donated x number of dollars, get higher limits. And if you actually win anythng over a couple thousand, they want to know who you are and why you're gambling on their property. The only exception (and I'm not sure it still is), would be Caesars' Palace itself.

    If you win a series of outings betting sports, and have not established that you are a consistent loser, you are not treated well.
    I am not a sports bettor and only made two bets in a sports book in my whole life. One was made about 13 years ago, pre-NFL season that San Diego would win the Super Bowl. A friend gave me $20 to make the bet, knowing I was going to LV. The other bet was made on Denver winning some Sunday game, and Caesars gave me a free $120 bet as part of some promotion. Denver won, covered the spread, and all I know was that Elway was QB back then.

    I really can't comment how sports books operate or if they watch who their customers are and how much they win/lose, etc. But from what I've read there are several professional operations in LV that use runners to move huge amounts of money. It wouldn't surprise me if a casino did get curious about an "unfamiliar player" making big bets and if that "unfamiliar player" were a runner for a professional group.

    Also, and you might not know this, but the casinos are required to track not only big bets but also payoffs for the IRS, the Treasury Dept and Homeland Security. This is why the Caesars/Harrahs group requires every poker player in a tournament to have a Total Rewards card. This is why they push TR so much -- because they have on the "back end" all of your ID info should you ever cash anything big.

    For example, I once had a very lucky run at $5 VP where I printed out a ticket for $5,000 without hitting even one W2G. I was playing $5 Bonus and just had a nice string of quads, the biggest of which paid $1,000. Normally, if you present a $5,000 ticket at the cage (it won't be cashed by a TITO machine, too big) they'll ask for your ID. In my case they simply asked for my TR card with the words "we have to see if you have any outstanding markers?" Sure they wanted to check for markers, but they also made a notation who was paid $5,000 cash in case I was laundering money. (In this case they could see my time on the machine and knew I just didn't feed in $5k of drug money and pushed the cash-out button.)

    "Game protection" is very important especially at higher denominations and especially at games such as sports betting and poker. Sports betting because information can beat the house, and poker because collusion at a game could be used to launder money. And in slots, you can also launder money by feeding in large amounts of cash and then pushing the "cash out button" for a ticket.

    What a great way for a drug dealer or politician to explain a large deposit in his bank account: "Gee, I got lucky at the casino. Just ask the cage. They paid me $200,000. Sure I paid the taxes on it and declared the profit. You can't put me in jail for that!"
    Last edited by Alan Mendelson; 08-13-2012 at 07:40 AM.

  17. #17
    Alan, that "over $1200 tito" issue recently came up on vpFree. Different people have had different experiences, and since I have cashed in hundreds of those up to a little over $6000 like yours, I related that there were only two occasions ever where I was asked for any I'D at the cage when cashing them. I expect it's due to employee ignorance. I don't think money laundering is an issue--they know where the money came from.

  18. #18
    Originally Posted by Rob.Singer View Post
    Alan, that "over $1200 tito" issue recently came up on vpFree. Different people have had different experiences, and since I have cashed in hundreds of those up to a little over $6000 like yours, I related that there were only two occasions ever where I was asked for any I'D at the cage when cashing them. I expect it's due to employee ignorance. I don't think money laundering is an issue--they know where the money came from.
    You might not be aware of this, but the casinos must have ready to go a full report of large cash transactions. If you are getting any kind of a payout of $10,000 or more it is absolutely required and a notation is made on your account. And even smaller payments made over a period of time, if they add up, get a notation.

    In fact Rob, there might be a special notation on you over at a certain casino that "banned" you. Not because you won so much money (because it appears you didn't playing $2 video poker) but because you won consistently. You might have been banned for being a money launderer, and not for being a winner.

    Interesting thing happened on Monday: my wife's cousin called me to ask if I had any "connections" with a certain big bank here in LA. It seems that the bank put a temporary freeze on all of his business accounts -- and he operates a big business that does a lot of trade with Mexico.

    "A freeze on your accounts? Do they think you're a drug runner?" I asked.

    Indeed, that is probably the issue. Now here's a guy who legitimately does business with customers in Mexico, and has his damn accounts frozen. Later in the day he was told by the bank that all of his accounts were being closed and they were immediately transferring him his cash to "another bank of his choice." It is crazy what is going on.

    Now, if you don't think the casinos have been doing the same stuff, you're being very naive.

  19. #19
    I don't discount anything you say, because it makes sense and it's not something that I've ever really been concerned with. In fact, some of it I never even thought of before. I've carried a lot of cash with me in my time, and almost every session I put it all back into the bank plus some, as soon as I returned home. There were always the reports, but after a while they became automatic since they knew me very well. What I did was not what their normal customers would do--far from it. But I wanted a true record of my work as well as a true record for the IRS that all exactly and meticulously tied into my gaming log.

  20. #20
    Really, Rob, do you think you were banned from playing video poker just because you won on a $2 machine? And if I recall, one of the royals you got on free play was on a fifty-cent machine.

    Yet, it's OK for you to be on the property, stay there if you like, dine in their restaurants -- but don't play video poker there.

    Whenever I ever heard of any "banned player" they are told not to return to a property -- period -- or they will be trespassed.

    You, on the other hand, are still welcome to eat in their steak house -- just don't push any more money through our casino, is what they're saying.

    Oh, and let's look at your profile: No permanent address; travels freely in a pricey RV; previously known to carry large amounts of cash; sometimes avoids the "system" by playing without a players card; does not tip; not exactly the best dressed casino patron and a bit on the scruffy side; does not have a title such as "doctor" to account for his cash...

    Anything wrong with this picture? LOL

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •