Playing against a very aggressive bettor in No Limit Hold'em.

[Rob.Singer]

I strongly suspect arci watches and believes professional wrestling too, just as he believes (or at least DID believe, until his lunch was handed to him, that is) that the math percentages he sees for each remaining player on the TV screen, is what the players who are "math experts" are working with as they make their next moves. Sorry arci, but the only "math" anyone uses is counting how much each player has in chips in front of them. The only people who know the percentages are the TV audience, and only because all the cards from the dropped out players are known to the producers, who can then put up an absolute % based on the facts.

[Alan Mendelson]

I strongly suspect arci watches and believes professional wrestling too, just as he believes (or at least DID believe, until his lunch was handed to him, that is) that the math percentages he sees for each remaining player on the TV screen, is what the players who are "math experts" are working with as they make their next moves. Sorry arci, but the only "math" anyone uses is counting how much each player has in chips in front of them. The only people who know the percentages are the TV audience, and only because all the cards from the dropped out players are known to the producers, who can then put up an absolute % based on the facts.

Rob is pretty much correct on this. Especially in tournament play the size of your opponent's stack becomes a major issue in strategy when it comes to deciding to bet, fold, raise, even bluff. In cash games, chip stacks don't matter as much because if you get busted, you just reach into your wallet and take out another $100 or $200 or $500 and start over.

[Alan Mendelson]

With live poker the math provides the basics. However, there is more to poker than just math. The better you are at those other facets the better you will do.

The most successful players at either live poker or VP know BOTH the math and the non-math facets and try to optimize both.

OMG Arc is an expert at live poker too! And here's a guy who never sat at $2-$1 limit game.

[Rob.Singer]

Alan, when will you learn that nearly everything he writes is copied word-for-word from the Internet, with the only intent being to make others think he's an expert at everything he gets involved in responding to? And why do you think he comes unravelled so easily when he can't push his views onto others, after believing no one could POSSIBLY put up anything more intelligent than he just did because he got it online! It fits hand-in-hand with how laughably often he steps in his own traps. And can you just imagine the amount of time he puts into all that, seeing how many posts and line-item-vetoes he puts up here, along with his doing the exact same thing under two or three aliases on vpFree and especially videopoker.com?

No one is as fun to follow, expose, and mock as he is

[arcimede$]

OMG Arc is an expert at live poker too! And here's a guy who never sat at $2-$1 limit game.

What a silly comment.

Do you disagree with what I said? ........ I thought not.

This is not rocket science and it doesn't take a lot to realize that there are multiple facets involved in live poker.

[arcimede$]

Alan, when will you learn that nearly everything he writes is copied word-for-word from the Internet, with the only intent being to make others think he's an expert at everything he gets involved in responding to? And why do you think he comes unravelled so easily when he can't push his views onto others, after believing no one could POSSIBLY put up anything more intelligent than he just did because he got it online! It fits hand-in-hand with how laughably often he steps in his own traps. And can you just imagine the amount of time he puts into all that, seeing how many posts and line-item-vetoes he puts up here, along with his doing the exact same thing under two or three aliases on vpFree and especially videopoker.com?

No one is as fun to follow, expose, and mock as he is

As I've stated quite often, I'm usually just repeating well known facts. What's truly amazing is that people like Singer still exist in a fog and don't realize the vast wealth of information available today. And what's even funnier is they argue against that common knowledge.

This silly attempt to attack me simply highlights what an ignorant fool he is. BTW, I love the projection "he steps in his own traps" .... classic.

[Alan Mendelson]

it doesn't take a lot to realize that there are multiple facets involved in live poker.

Wow, Arc, I'm surprised you wrote this after our lengthy discussion about all of the different skills needed in live poker which don't exist in video poker.

Frankly, if you played live poker "by the math" you'd lose your money so fast you'd be wondering what planet you were on. I could see you now: "But I had pocket aces!!"

[Rob.Singer]

As I've stated quite often, I'm usually just repeating well known facts. What's truly amazing is that people like Singer still exist in a fog and don't realize the vast wealth of information available today. And what's even funnier is they argue against that common knowledge.

This silly attempt to attack me simply highlights what an ignorant fool he is. BTW, I love the projection "he steps in his own traps" .... classic.

Namecalling, denial, & the Pee-Wee Herman defense....an absolutely CLASSIC example of how arci reacts after a little of that "chipping away", which when you think about it, in and of itself is even MORE chipping away

Yes, "tested genius", Internet research guru, & now poker expert, all wrapped up into one tidy pkg. What'll they think of next!

[arcimede$]

Wow, Arc, I'm surprised you wrote this after our lengthy discussion about all of the different skills needed in live poker which don't exist in video poker.

Yes, and if you could remember more than a day in the past you'd remember there were also skills in VP that don't exist in live poker.

Frankly, if you played live poker "by the math" you'd lose your money so fast you'd be wondering what planet you were on. I could see you now: "But I had pocket aces!!"

Why would I ever say that when I gave you numbers already that showed that pocket aces doesn't always win. Your fantasies just don't hold up in the real world. They don't here and they don't with VP either.

What's even funnier is you admit you are a net loser at all your gambling activities while I am a winner. That should tell you something about the math.

[arcimede$]

Namecalling, denial, & the Pee-Wee Herman defense....an absolutely CLASSIC example of how arci reacts after a little of that "chipping away", which when you think about it, in and of itself is even MORE chipping away

Yes, "tested genius", Internet research guru, & now poker expert, all wrapped up into one tidy pkg. What'll they think of next!

Obviously, my pointing out what a complete fool Singer has made of himself hit a nerve. Look at all the accurate projections of his own failings

[Alan Mendelson]

Yes, and if you could remember more than a day in the past you'd remember there were also skills in VP that don't exist in live poker.

What's even funnier is you admit you are a net loser at all your gambling activities while I am a winner. That should tell you something about the math.

1. I'm really curious about this: what skill is there in VP that does not exist in live poker?

2. I never said I was a net loser at all of my gambling activities... I have a very strong record at live poker.

But don't forget to respond to #1.

[arcimede$]

1. I'm really curious about this: what skill is there in VP that does not exist in live poker?

I mentioned one in the last couple of days. You should actually try reading my comments once in awhile.

2. I never said I was a net loser at all of my gambling activities... I have a very strong record at live poker.

Does that mean you've won overall or not?

[Rob.Singer]

Arci's a winner? Take a poll in his house and he'll need a coin flip for the tie-breaker.

Keep pinning him down on the first question, then watch the waffling and namecalling. It's worth the wait!

[arcimede$]

I know it's asking a lot of Rob and Alan to go all the way to page 2 to get an answer. I'm beginning to wonder about both of you guys' memories.

[Alan Mendelson]

Arc, it's not that I have a bad memory, it's just that I have a lot to do. I'm not retired. I have a business to run and a very hostile discussion forum to attempt to moderate. Now, the only thing I saw on page 2 was a reference to scouting for VP games to play. Well, you also scout for playing conditions at live poker, as well as tournaments.

In live poker you scout for such variables as house rake, blinds, comps and perhaps the greatest skill of all is finding a table/game/casino where your playing skills are better than those of the other players.

I know of several players who have the financial resources to play at higher level cash games, but choose to play the lower limit games because their skills allow them to win more at the lower level games against players who may lack their skills and also can bluffed more because they don't have the finances to risk during a bluff.

Now, if that wasn't the exclusive VP skill you were talking about or if there are others, please tell what it is?

[arcimede$]

Alan, the big difference is the live poker games don't change constantly like VP inventories and progressives. But there are some similarities in that in both situations you are looking for a better advantage.

It also helps to develop contacts where you share information or find slot attendants that will call you when progressives get high.

VP also requires understanding promotions and player's club rules. Given the differences at various casinos you usually have to acquire this knowledge for several casinos. I used to play 6 or 7 casinos at a time in Vegas. The rules often changed so you need to stay on top of it. In addition, you might have to play a different game at every casino and you need to understand the strategies for every one of them. And, of course, you need to figure out how to stay under the radar so you don't get 86ed.

You also want to schedule your play and freeplay collection for maximum benefit and least amount of cost.

[Alan Mendelson]

Arc, please, go play poker. It's got the same things you just mentioned. Different casinos have different progressive jackpots. There are also "players clubs" with points and promotions. There are free tournament entries, and cash back, and free food, and there are different players club rules, and there are different strategies whether you play $100 no limit or $500 no limit, or 1-2 limit or 8-16 limit, or stud or omaha. And do poker players get 86ed? Not if they behave themselves, but if you as a player are "too good" the other players won't sit at the same table as you or will request a table change as soon as you show up.

Oh, and you also have to schedule your play and free play collection for maximum benefit and least amount of cost. Players points do expire, there are certain bonus points days, and multiplier days.

Sorry Arc, but everything there is in video poker there is also in live poker. But live poker has so many more variables that you can't even consider. In fact, your strict mathematical mind would make you a sitting duck (or what we call a donkey) at a live poker game.

[Rob.Singer]

Arci's feeling his best whenever you give him something to do to kill the boredom there. Now that live poker is the issue, he hits the Internet then he hits the posting about it, pretending to be an expert without ever having played a hand. But it IS a funny thought...a loner nerd vs. a table of knowledgeable players. And aside from not being able to walk the walk, he can't even talk the talk at this point. Better brush up on what a donkey is arci. It'll take your mind off of things.

[arcimede$]

Alan, if the games were the same then there should be just as many advantage VP players as there are poker players. The numbers aren't even close. Why do you think that is?

[Rob.Singer]

Ah-ha..there he is. Back from the links, the machines, the alley...or was it the home-care Olympics? Couldnt't have been TOO important