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Thread: Multi Line VP

  1. #21
    Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson View Post
    Im a recreational player now and always have been. It's only entertainment for me.

    I like the idea of winning, but Im not going to bang my head against the wall when I lose.

    And the reason why I play craps, for example, even though I know it is a losing game, is that I like the challenge of trying to influence the dice. It's the only reason to play the game -- the challenge of doing what seems to be impossible.

    For me, throwing the dice in a "controlled manner" is akin to pitching a perfect game in baseball, or hitting a drive like Tiger Woods. Obviously I can't throw a major league pitch, or even drive a golf ball several hundred yards to a green. And I can't control the dice either. But it's certainly a challenge and fun to try which is why playing on a $3 table in Jean, Nevada is as much fun (actually more fun) than playing on a $25 table on the Strip in Vegas. The "fun" is not in the amount of money, but in the "challenge" of doing what for the most part is impossible.

    In live poker, I play a low stakes game. It doesn't take much money to give me the enjoyment of playing live poker. I could just as easily buy into a $500 game -- but there is less enjoyment with that much money at risk.

    The other night at Hollywood, my $100 game broke up, and while I waited for a seat at another $100 table I was moved to a $40 (forty dollar) table, and to be honest -- that $40 table with lower blinds was even more fun than playing at a $100 table. And ironically I won more money playing at the $40 table than I usually win at a $100 table. At a $40 table you can still go all-in, just as you can at a $100 table.

    So my point is this: if a professional determines he needs a $73,000 bankroll to win his $2,500 then good luck to him. But if you give me $73,000 I can find several lower risk opportunities for you to get $2500 or more, including selling covered calls on Wall Street. Risking $73,000 for a $2,500 return does not make sense to me.
    Gotta go but I have a comment on the last part and hope to read the first part closer tomorrow. Remember, he's not always winning $2500. I forgot what his average win was over those 300 sessions but it was higher than $3500 at least, and from memory reading the paper I've seen many 5 figure wins. Working Wall Street or being a pro gambler? He said he had his retirement already covered when he started.

  2. #22
    Retirement is not the issue. Actually I have the same "complaint" about Dancer.

    When I attended a seminar with Dancer several years ago (probably 7 years ago) he said his income from video poker was $250,000 per year with half coming from cash back and half from actual winnings. He said he was playing three line, $25/coin deuces for $375 per push of the button.

    The amount of money at risk, for me, is mindblowing. And that much risk to earn half from winnings and half from rebates? It just makes no sense.

    However, that doesn't mean these pros don't have good information to help recreational players get more for their money. So I learned from Dancer and Grochowski (who never made any claims of playing big money) and from Rob. But you will never see me bring $73,000 into a casino. LOL

  3. #23
    {Rule #2: Bankroll required for a session with my play limits: $62,500. I recommend a total gambling bankroll of 3 times a session’s – or $187,500. My play starts at quarters and goes thru $25. You can lower the bankroll requirement by starting at nickels and of course, your required bankroll will go down exponentially. My goal is to win a minimum of $500 every session, and immediately leave for home. Similarly, should I be very unlucky and lose with no cash-outs, I will leave as soon as I lose my $62,500 session bankroll, or after I have gone through all the denominations and show a loss of any amount less than that after any soft profit cash outs.}

    Am I interpreting this right? "You should take 1/3 of your gambling money to the casino for your session. At the $62,500 level, the goal is to win $500 and when the goal is obtained, go home."

    Call me crazy but I'd never risk 1/3 of my bankroll at any one time in a casino, and I think a loss limit would get me heading home long before I'd be thinking about any arbitrary goal for winning.

  4. #24
    I was wondering if Rob would mind demonstrating this strategy for us... with his money?

    Yes, he could get lucky and immediately or quickly hit a $500 win goal on quarters. But, as Vegas Vic points out, does he really want to carry $62,500 to a casino just to win $500... with or without all of those permits to carry??

    Have any of Rob's followers mortgage their homes to try this?

  5. #25
    Originally Posted by jatki View Post
    Arc you try and try to get mileage out of the same repeated foolishness you've said and it isn't working. I know why you're sore though.
    No, you know nothing about me. So, that makes this statement another lie. Are you challenging Singer as to who can tell the most lies?

    Originally Posted by jatki View Post
    You made claim after claim everywhere about Singer supposedly requiring students use his card in training sessions, part of his larger conif I'm not mistaken. I came on and told you that did not happen with me, you called me a liar
    No, I never said that your statement about using a player's club was a lie. However, your claim that I said that IS A LIE. You can't help yourself can you? All you can do is try and distort the facts. Unfortunately for you, the truth prevails.

    Originally Posted by jatki View Post
    because you weren't happy with how dumb that made you look, and you made up how somebody said he did it to them and Singer admitted to it, where else but on videopoker.com.
    How could something I never said make me look dumb? However, these lies of yours are making you look totally ridiculous.

    Originally Posted by jatki View Post
    Singer then says that wasn't true, you're losing your mind at this point, and your thin skin was challenged even more by a request to prove it by posting proof. No big surprise all you did was cry foul. You do it everywhere. While you're at trying to explain your lies away, provide proof Singer's a fraud. Come on Mr. All Facts, all the time. Factualize it.
    You seem to have missed the part where Singer admitted he did exactly what I claimed at least one time. You are looking like a complete moron by continuing to claim something didn't happen that Singer has admitted did happen. What a tool.

    Originally Posted by jatki View Post
    If you weren't so jealous of Singer you'd never chase him over every forum imagineable trying to get him to see things your way. I'm not a ppsycologist or anything, but I strongly believe he is a major driver in your life. We all saw how you knock down anyone who supports him on videopoker.com and LV A as him with an alias, and all you do is end up as a known repeat liar. So you still try to sell BackSider was him even when no one else believes you, so you come over here to tell your fake tales. I once thought Singer was brilliant for being able to read you. I'm no Singer, but it isn't difficult at all.
    More lies. If no one "believes me" then why did several others also claim backsider was Singer? Are you blind or are you just so dishonest you are willing to make up claims that are easily disputed in hope that no one will check it out? By making such nonsense claims you are showing everyone that you prefer to lie than to deal with the facts. What a tool.

    BTW, your abundance of misspellings gives away the fact that you are an angry man. You really should have quit while you were behind. I suppose being suckered into Singer's impossible claims makes you feel like a fool. However, by lying constantly all you are doing is making it worse.

  6. #26
    I don't know about all this other stuff, but when it comes to whether or not Singer had students "play" on his card, it doesn't matter.

    Singer says it happened once. And it doesn't matter if it happened a hundred times. If the "students" didn't agree to it, they didn't have to take Singer's lessons.

    If Singer violated some casino players' club policy, let the players club police hunt him down.

    this is such a "non issue," especially when you consider just how little casino comps are worth.

  7. #27
    At the moment the issue is not whether this is appropriate, only that Singer admitted doing it. Jatki claims I lied and it is obvious that I didn't. QED.

    Since jatki continues to make this claim despite Singer's admission then he is lying.

  8. #28
    Gee Arc, can't you say he is mistaken instead of calling him a liar?

  9. #29
    Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson View Post
    Gee Arc, can't you say he is mistaken instead of calling him a liar?
    That's what I do when people make honest mistakes, not when they intentionally repeat falsehoods.

  10. #30
    Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson View Post
    Retirement is not the issue. Actually I have the same "complaint" about Dancer.

    When I attended a seminar with Dancer several years ago (probably 7 years ago) he said his income from video poker was $250,000 per year with half coming from cash back and half from actual winnings. He said he was playing three line, $25/coin deuces for $375 per push of the button.

    The amount of money at risk, for me, is mindblowing. And that much risk to earn half from winnings and half from rebates? It just makes no sense.

    However, that doesn't mean these pros don't have good information to help recreational players get more for their money. So I learned from Dancer and Grochowski (who never made any claims of playing big money) and from Rob. But you will never see me bring $73,000 into a casino. LOL
    Mindblowing for you, mindblowing for me, but it isn't to them. I don't think Dancer brings that much with him, I think from what he writes that he gets markers, something Singer advises against. Isn't Grochowski just a writer?

  11. #31
    Originally Posted by arcimede$ View Post
    No, you know nothing about me. So, that makes this statement another lie. Are you challenging Singer as to who can tell the most lies?



    No, I never said that your statement about using a player's club was a lie. However, your claim that I said that IS A LIE. You can't help yourself can you? All you can do is try and distort the facts. Unfortunately for you, the truth prevails.



    How could something I never said make me look dumb? However, these lies of yours are making you look totally ridiculous.



    You seem to have missed the part where Singer admitted he did exactly what I claimed at least one time. You are looking like a complete moron by continuing to claim something didn't happen that Singer has admitted did happen. What a tool.



    More lies. If no one "believes me" then why did several others also claim backsider was Singer? Are you blind or are you just so dishonest you are willing to make up claims that are easily disputed in hope that no one will check it out? By making such nonsense claims you are showing everyone that you prefer to lie than to deal with the facts. What a tool.

    BTW, your abundance of misspellings gives away the fact that you are an angry man. You really should have quit while you were behind. I suppose being suckered into Singer's impossible claims makes you feel like a fool. However, by lying constantly all you are doing is making it worse.
    This is so childish. Arc's upset so now I'm a (ready for the namecalls?) liar, I'm a fool, and I'm a tool, and for sure the obligatory part of ranting like a spoiled kid who can't have it NOW! is the jumpimp on me for bad spelling.

    BackSider again, when will you quit. Dancer doesn't believe you and he has a lot more credibility on the forum than you. Oh, another nerve hit?

    The rest of your breakdown (not an intended pun) could have been avoided had you chose to put up support of where you say Singer admitted to something he said he never did, instead of calling everyone else liars for calling you out on it. When I burst your bubble with my experience with him you didn't take that well did you. Now, you pay. Or make me pay by showing proof. So please, show where Singer made a student like me use his card, Mr. All the Facts, All the Time!

  12. #32
    Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson View Post
    I don't know about all this other stuff, but when it comes to whether or not Singer had students "play" on his card, it doesn't matter.

    Singer says it happened once. And it doesn't matter if it happened a hundred times. If the "students" didn't agree to it, they didn't have to take Singer's lessons.

    If Singer violated some casino players' club policy, let the players club police hunt him down.

    this is such a "non issue," especially when you consider just how little casino comps are worth.
    The voice of reason. Singer said in his columns that he never charges or asks for anything from players he trains and I found out first hand that that's exactly what he does. That's why it's a non-issue and why arc hisn't handling it well. He seems to want Singer to be bad news and the facts just don't pan out for that, and he keeps saying Singer admitted it when he didn't.

    I'm retired, but even I don't have time to spend all day at the keyboard like arc, who bowls with his computer? So I'll be ready for more of his frustrated insults later. Or Heaven forbid, he actually produces evidence for his bogus claims, as any Mr. All the Facts, All the Time would readily do.

  13. #33
    Singer already said he did it. How many times does he have to tell you before you believe him? Geez, and I thought Singer was slow. You are told the truth and you come back asking for evidence. You've got to be the biggest raging idiot I've ever come across.

  14. #34
    Are we all clear that Singer said he did it once? Will accepting that Singer inserted his own card into the machine when the "student" did not have a card end this argument?
    Arc, will that end it for you?
    jatki, will that end it for you?

  15. #35
    Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson View Post
    Are we all clear that Singer said he did it once? Will accepting that Singer inserted his own card into the machine when the "student" did not have a card end this argument?
    Arc, will that end it for you?
    jatki, will that end it for you?
    Reasonable, but not complete. Arc, I go to the hotel to pick up my daughter at work and you're already here? Wow. Now Alan, we agree that Singer said he used his card once with a student, and he clearly stated right here on your forum (and I've seen this on another forum also) that he did so only because the student didn't have or want a card at whatever casino they trained at. Force it was not. Arc, those are facts....yes them darn little things. Arc has spun that around to make it look like Singer admitted he required the use of his card, I assume to perpetuate his con according to Mr. Facts. But now that he has to read the truth about it again, he's going to claim it all went down on another forum, one that Singer has been banned from for many years. Even there he could never have admitted to anything, and that's what I'm asking arc to do, present his evidence about Singer admitting to requiring or else ,or just come out and admit he was wrong, something unheard of for him I'm betting.

    Yes I say we're done unless the proof of the accusation is provided. This is why arc calls me names. Sorry Charlie.

  16. #36
    Originally Posted by jatki View Post
    Reasonable, but not complete. Arc, I go to the hotel to pick up my daughter at work and you're already here? Wow. Now Alan, we agree that Singer said he used his card once with a student, and he clearly stated right here on your forum (and I've seen this on another forum also) that he did so only because the student didn't have or want a card at whatever casino they trained at. Force it was not. Arc, those are facts....yes them darn little things.
    All I stated was Singer admitted to using his card when training someone AND I was told by a former student of his that this happened. And you were the one claiming those FACTS were not true. You don't get to now claim that you accept them when just last night you were saying I was lying. You were wrong, I was right. Say it! Admit it. YOU WERE WRONG. I WAS RIGHT.

    Like I've said many times, all I do is provide facts.

  17. #37
    Originally Posted by arcimede$ View Post
    All I stated was Singer admitted to using his card when training someone AND I was told by a former student of his that this happened. And you were the one claiming those FACTS were not true. You don't get to now claim that you accept them when just last night you were saying I was lying. You were wrong, I was right. Say it! Admit it. YOU WERE WRONG. I WAS RIGHT.

    Like I've said many times, all I do is provide facts.
    Humble pie isn't in your diet, that is clear. You've now reduced your false claim to what I and he have been telling you about never requiring it, him probably for a long long time. Good way to escape having to provide proof. May I suggest you go back over your claims for years here includedand read where you've always said how this slot card thing was part of his overall con? you know, like how you've kept claiming using other people's cards was how he made his money?

    Case closed alan, unless arc wants to inadvertantly and indirectly say he was wrong again.

  18. #38
    Originally Posted by jatki View Post
    Arc has spun that around to make it look like Singer admitted he required the use of his card, I assume to perpetuate his con according to Mr. Facts.
    Nope, you will not find me making that claim anywhere. You are lying again.

    Originally Posted by jatki View Post
    But now that he has to read the truth about it again, he's going to claim it all went down on another forum, one that Singer has been banned from for many years. Even there he could never have admitted to anything, and that's what I'm asking arc to do, present his evidence about Singer admitting to requiring or else ,or just come out and admit he was wrong, something unheard of for him I'm betting.
    Singer only admitted using his card at all after I pushed him. His claim that the person was not using a card is unproven. Of course, Singer is a proven liar so he has no credibility to fall back on. The person who made that claim had no reason to lie. And, as far as I can tell, was not lying.

    So, what we have is a proven liar vs. a person with no skin in the game. I know which one I believe. In fact, I suspect that most reasonable people will believe Singer really did require the use of his card. Not only that, he likely has done it over and over again. It all gets down the type of person Singer has shown himself to be. You're free to believe whatever you want. I just provide the facts and let them stand on their own.

  19. #39
    Arci, I know you won't let this go because you know the guy humiliated you in front of others with your own "facts" (see "arci stepped into his own trap again) . What I kinda enjoy here is first watching you get pummeled, then seeing you lie about claiming to never have said, here, that I used this so-called slot card scam as a means to an end in my con to get money from others. jatki really horse-collared you didn't he. I wonder what all your hack friends on vp.com would say if they saw this over there....the ones that aren't eating dirt, that is....

    Jatki you earned a dinner in LV at my expense!

  20. #40
    Originally Posted by jatki View Post
    Humble pie isn't in your diet, that is clear.
    Still waiting for you to admit you were wrong. Admit that you were lying about what I had stated. Come on, tool, step up and be a man.

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