Forum Alert: Beware of Bad Info

[redietz]

Since I have posted here regularly, and since I post more or less under my real name, I feel obligated to warn forum visitors that my previous presence here does not indicate that I think it's a good idea to glean gambling information from this forum.

It is my best judgement that an individual or individual(s) have co-ordinated posting under various personas for the main purpose of promoting gambling system(s) that are flawed both logically and mathematically.

Do not believe the hype. Multiple posters discussing gambling system(s) should not be interpreted as those system(s) having any validity or utility.

Perhaps this should be implicitly understood, but because I have spent the last 30 years serving as a consultant for high stakes gamblers, I felt it necessary to state that my presence in no way constitutes an endorsement of system(s) discussed on this site.

[jatki]

That's a very strange post Red. This must mean your are intimately aware of every detail of any system or systems being discussed here.

On a more linear note, are you able to give a basic explanation of what type of high stakes gamblers you consult for, and what that entails?

Thanks.

[Vegas_lover]

That's a very strange post Red. This must mean your are intimately aware of every detail of any system or systems being discussed here.

The fact that you think this is a strange post might say a lot more about you than about redietz. The "system" that has been discussed on this forum until now is inconsistent from a mathematical point of view. And since math is an exact sience........well you do the math . There is no need to know all the "intimate" details of the specific "system" we are talking about since the basics of the "system" are uhhhhhhh shaky.

I also believe it would be smart for you Jatki to tone it down a little. I don't think you have a lot of credit with the majority of the posters here. Just an observation, you do with it what you like.

[Vegas Vic]

That's a very strange post Red. This must mean your are intimately aware of every detail of any system or systems being discussed here.

Just wondering if your ears are burning at all.

[Alan Mendelson]

A couple of comments:

1. Singer's followers are nothing less than "True Believers." You cannot tell a True Believer that what they are doing isn't "right" or the best way. True Believers are committed.

2. Would someone please give me just one example of where Rob Singer does not admit or doesn't say upfront that his system "is inconsistent from a mathematical point of view," as Vegas_lover put it?

3. redietz if someone wanted to consult with you, or hire you, for gaming information, advice or management, how would they know about you (outside of this Forum, of course)? Do you have a book, website, newspaper column, or do they just stand in the back of a sports book giving the "signal" of tugging on their left ear with their right hand, while rubbing their elbow with their left hand?

[Vegas_lover]

2. Would someone please give me just one example of where Rob Singer does not admit or doesn't say upfront that his system "is inconsistent from a mathematical point of view," as Vegas_lover put it?

Alan, I understand your question and I'm politely going to decline answering it. On several other topics there have been in debt explanations why Singer's system is inconsistent. Starting to explain that here would basically mean repeating points that have already been made in the past. The only result would be the opening of another can of worms. There's no point since the believers are "true believers" as you have explained and they don't want to hear it anyway.

[Alan Mendelson]

It's not for the true believers, that I'm asking... I want to know. Singer has always stated what the "math says" and why he does things differently. So my question refers to your statement about Singer's system being inconsistent from a mathematical point of view. Of course it is inconsistent. THAT is his system!

[arcimede$]

The math affects all play equally since every hand in VP is independent of any other hand (just like coin flips). There is no way to avoid the math. Anyone who claims they have a system that overcomes a mathematical disadvantage (negative return VP games) is lying. That is as simple as it gets.

[Alan Mendelson]

I'm not so sure you can't do better than what the math says. In my old neighborhood I had a neighbor who won the California pick-6 lottery twice. I see winners all the time on negative expectation games. Maybe the math does catch up to you when you play as many hours as some claim. But for short term, recreational gamblers -- the math is not an issue and when you can walk away a winner you've beaten the math.

[arcimede$]

I'm not so sure you can't do better than what the math says. In my old neighborhood I had a neighbor who won the California pick-6 lottery twice. I see winners all the time on negative expectation games. Maybe the math does catch up to you when you play as many hours as some claim. But for short term, recreational gamblers -- the math is not an issue and when you can walk away a winner you've beaten the math.

And when you walk away a loser you haven't. Let me know when you want to insert some real facts into the discussion.

Alan, I hope your realize your silly comments here affect your credibility.

[jatki]

Just wondering if your ears are burning at all.

No but my eyes are. You've got a strangely similar handle to someone else who writes about gaming. Isn't that illegal or immoral or something?

I share Alan's inquisitiveness on Red's consulting to high rollers. Or was it just in jest?

[jatki]

And when you walk away a loser you haven't. Let me know when you want to insert some real facts into the discussion.

Alan, I hope your realize your silly comments here affect your credibility.

Arc his credibility and likeability are sky high compared to yours. But omg, nothing's nagging him.
Insults like yours really aren't wanted or needed. More reason to see why Singer is right about how you do these things just to fill in such a huge amount of boring time.

I think Rob said he will show how his short term system is a superior play to long term play, and he will show how with math. Arc you won't accept it +or you won't understand it and you most certainly will annoy us with how he won't do it, that's already clear. But let the rest of us see if we can when he shows it.

[Vegas Vic]

No but my eyes are. You've got a strangely similar handle to someone else who writes about gaming. Isn't that illegal or immoral or something?

My only connection with Victor "Vegas Vic" Royer is that I have his book Powerful Profits from Video Poker. He uses his nickname everywhere except here because I joined a year before he did. I use the nickname in many other forums, most of which are not related to gaming. Why is this a problem for you?

[Alan Mendelson]

And when you walk away a loser you haven't.

Exactly. And so we are back at the main point of the discussion: are your personal results set in stone by the pay table? Or can your personal actual results be better or worse than the "expected return."

Remember, Arc, playing on a positive expectation game does not guarantee you to win.

What is silly, is trying to tell people that if they play a positive expectation game that they will win. Not only is that silly, but that is dangerous.

[Alan Mendelson]

I just want to confirm that our "Vegas Vic" joined out forum well before Victor "Vegas Vic" Royer joined the forum.

And the "Vegas Vic" on our forum is just one of many people who uses the handle or nickname "Vegas Vic." I once had a cab driver in Vegas who called himself Vegas Vic, I've had a craps dealer who went by "Vegas Vic," and so forth.

Jatki, let's put the "forum name conspiracy" behind us now.

[Vegas Vic]

I just want to confirm that our "Vegas Vic" joined out forum well before Victor "Vegas Vic" Royer joined the forum.

And the "Vegas Vic" on our forum is just one of many people who uses the handle or nickname "Vegas Vic." I once had a cab driver in Vegas who called himself Vegas Vic, I've had a craps dealer who went by "Vegas Vic," and so forth.

Jatki, let's put the "forum name conspiracy" behind us now.

Don't be so hasty, Alan. Now that I think about it, it's really strange that you go by "Alan" when the young man dating one of my nieces also is called "Alan". I firmly believe you could have chosen "Al", or "Allen", or "Allan" for a forum name instead. What exactly is it that you are trying to hide?

[Alan Mendelson]

What's in a name?

The very first radio station I ever worked for was WRRC in suburban, New York. This goes back to 1966. The station had money troubles and the bookkeeper in an attempt to "control cash flow" would often write out the checks with incorrect spellings to delay processing of checks. (This was the old days when checks were actually written by hand.) So she spelled my name "Allyn" and the bank that had the station's account would not accept the check.

By the way, my name is A-L-A-N only four letters because that's all my parents could afford. Fancier people who can afford the extra letters use Allan or Allen. Fortunately, I was born in a good week when they didn't have to scrimp and just name me "Al."

[Vegas_lover]

Alan, I understand you want to know why Singer's system is inconsistent. I did not answer that because that would just be the same old same old all over again. As I predicted the S--t hit the fan immediately. But now it's jatki vs arci. It must be very comforting for Singer to see his parrot doing his work for him in the usual "Singer lingo" while he's on the road.

This is getting old.....

[Vegas Vic]

What's in a name?

By the way, my name is A-L-A-N only four letters because that's all my parents could afford. Fancier people who can afford the extra letters use Allan or Allen. Fortunately, I was born in a good week when they didn't have to scrimp and just name me "Al."

So, how many years have you been waiting for just the right moment to sneak in THAT story?

[arcimede$]

Exactly. And so we are back at the main point of the discussion: are your personal results set in stone by the pay table? Or can your personal actual results be better or worse than the "expected return."

We've been over this a million times, it's called a bell curve.

Remember, Arc, playing on a positive expectation game does not guarantee you to win.

What is silly, is trying to tell people that if they play a positive expectation game that they will win. Not only is that silly, but that is dangerous.

That's why I don't do it. I tell people results fall into a bell curve. That bell curve is centered on the personal ER of the player. That is what the math tells you. The big question is why do you deny the math applies to all players, in all situations?