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Thread: How to sell a gambling system, in five easy steps.

  1. #121
    Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson View Post
    Interesting situation. There's another difference. Singer didn't sell his system to anyone, did he? To the best of my knowledge he gave it away, even to the extent of free lessons. His books were more biographical than instructional. But here's another problem with Singer: his books really don't tell you how to play his system at all. And one of them is more of a report about his jaunt through Nevada casinos and what he experienced -- and he wasn't even playing his "system" in that book. What nerve!!

    Now let's look at Dancer. Everything Dancer does has a price. And in the case of the lectures the casinos are paying the price. And Dancer fails to disclose the "math" that the consumers will lose who play the games using the books and software and strategy cards that he sells. Imagine that-- buying strategy cards for games that you will lose at!!

    Damn, you can't even find an honest gaming author these days, can you?
    Dancer's books, cards, guide books and software products (which I have nearly every one) all include in some fashion information and explanations about theoretical return, expected value, volatility, etc. There is no attempt at hiding the mathematical facts of the games. It's all there for the purchaser to read and learn from.

    An excerpt (one of many) from his guide, The Winner's Guide To JOB:

    "You probably noticed that all six versions of Jacks or Better described above have returns of less than 100%. You may well ask, "How can I be a WINNER if I am always playing games returning less than 100%?" The answer is you can't." (Accompanying explanation in the guide follows). To suggest that he isn't an honest gaming author is wrong.

  2. #122
    Originally Posted by redietz View Post
    Well, that's the interesting aspect of the debate for me -- namely, "Who does more damage?" Or, put another way, "Who puts more cash in the casinos coffers -- Singer or Dancer?"

    I'd say, without being overly negative, 90-some percent of Dancer's followers lose, even with all of the training and insights and slot club expertise. And they probably lose more precisely because they think "they know what they're doing."
    I've heard various people comment that they do not lose as much as they used to because of following Dancer. Most people have no chance of winning because they don't have positive games available. I assume there are a few people who didn't completely understand what Dancer was saying lose more than they might have otherwise.

    I don't think all that many people have heard about Singer or understand his system. There are probably 1000 Dancer followers for every Singer follower (or more).

  3. #123
    Originally Posted by Vegas Vic View Post
    Dancer's books, cards, guide books and software products (which I have nearly every one) all include in some fashion information and explanations about theoretical return, expected value, volatility, etc. There is no attempt at hiding the mathematical facts of the games. It's all there for the purchaser to read and learn from.

    An excerpt (one of many) from his guide, The Winner's Guide To JOB:

    "You probably noticed that all six versions of Jacks or Better described above have returns of less than 100%. You may well ask, "How can I be a WINNER if I am always playing games returning less than 100%?" The answer is you can't." (Accompanying explanation in the guide follows). To suggest that he isn't an honest gaming author is wrong.
    I expected as much but couldn't say anything since I've never bought anything from Dancer. However, we all know that Alan tends to have poor reading comprehension and/or skims too much. We've seen it over and over again. Glad you brought reality back into the discussion.

  4. #124
    I assume most of what Granhoff writes is true. I'm not sure I should. If you read the ads, cover blurbs, and LVA plugs for Million Dollar Video Poker, you'll notice something very interesting, which I'm saving for a future column and won't go into here. But you guys are a bright group, so let's see if you can see the verrrrrry interestiing editorial choices made.

  5. #125
    Originally Posted by Vegas Vic View Post
    An excerpt (one of many) from his guide, The Winner's Guide To JOB:

    "You probably noticed that all six versions of Jacks or Better described above have returns of less than 100%. You may well ask, "How can I be a WINNER if I am always playing games returning less than 100%?" The answer is you can't."
    Excuse me, my error. I didn't know about that disclosure. But it does make the point I made before when I wrote: "Imagine that-- buying strategy cards for games that you will lose at!!"

    So please answer: Why is he selling guides to games you can't win? To take advantage of the greed in people just like the casinos take advantage of the greed in people?
    To Singer's credit, he warns you of that greed and tells you to get out of the casino.

    (I know I'm being argumentative here, but it fits the theme of the thread.)

  6. #126
    Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson View Post
    Excuse me, my error. I didn't know about that disclosure. But it does make the point I made before when I wrote: "Imagine that-- buying strategy cards for games that you will lose at!!"

    So please answer: Why is he selling guides to games you can't win? To take advantage of the greed in people just like the casinos take advantage of the greed in people?
    I already answered this once, Alan. Do you ever read the comments on your forum? In many cases the game itself may be negative but when added to slot club extras the overall play is positive. In fact, I've had situations where the overall edge is quite large even playing a negative game. I remember a promotion that doubled all W2G hand pays. Do the math.

  7. #127
    Interesting debate -- slot clubs turning negative into positive was previously pretty rare, but with the advent of "Senior Day" at many LV casinos, the slot club payouts do just that. And since various casinos offer "Senior Day" on different days, one can go on a senior tour during the week whereby you are playing negative games that are slightly positive due to the slot clubs. You can pretty much play with impunity.

    However, if you're not a senior, fuhgeddaboutit. So if you're a senior, I agree with Arci. If you're not, I agree with Alan.

  8. #128
    Originally Posted by redietz View Post
    Interesting debate -- slot clubs turning negative into positive was previously pretty rare, but with the advent of "Senior Day" at many LV casinos, the slot club payouts do just that. And since various casinos offer "Senior Day" on different days, one can go on a senior tour during the week whereby you are playing negative games that are slightly positive due to the slot clubs. You can pretty much play with impunity.

    However, if you're not a senior, fuhgeddaboutit. So if you're a senior, I agree with Arci. If you're not, I agree with Alan.
    Great news-none of my organs or body parts work well anymore but I can get a free buffet if I pound away at the slots. Ain't old age great!!

  9. #129
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    Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson View Post
    I've decided that it's pretty easy to sell a gambling system. The gambling system doesn't have to actually "work" but you just have to give the appearance that it works. Some testimonials will help.

    I am writing this not because I want anyone to use this information to help them sell a system to an unsuspecting consumer, but I am writing this to keep consumers from buying into pipe dreams about gambling.

    Before I get into the five steps of selling a gambling system, a basic rule to remember: You can't beat the house in most games unless you get very lucky. There are exceptions, of course, but the exceptions are few otherwise the casino industry wouldn't be able to keep the lights on.

    This is not about the "exceptions" but this is about preventing you from buying into a false dream and the writings or lessons taught by a false prophet.

    The five steps for selling a gambling system:

    Step #1 You appeal to those who feel cheated -- the "lost."
    What better audience is there for a gambling system but people who have gambled and lost in casinos? Whatever they've tried before didn't work, so they are begging for something that will work. They are ready to buy.

    Step #2 You tell them that it's not their fault that they lost.
    You give them a reason that is totally out of their control for their losses. You might claim that the video poker or slot games are not random, or that they are rigged. You might say that the casino has placed the winning machines in certain positions. You might say that only insiders know which games to bet on, or which bets to make on the roulette wheel. You tell them, and reinforce the idea, that others have the knowledge they are lacking and you can provide the missing knowledge. At the same time, by telling your customers that they are not to blame for their losses you also give them hope that your solution will work.

    Step #3 Your have a solution: a system, a strategy, a plan.
    This plan is your plan, it is unique, it is something that no one else ever came up with before. If it weren't unique there would be no reason to buy it from you. You developed the plan and you invested heavily into it. You identify with your customers telling them that before you devised your system/plan you were a loser just like they are. Now, your system/plan changes everything.

    Step #4 You have the proof.
    Proof of your success in gambling can come in various ways. You can show tax forms, trophies, bracelets, photos of jackpots, newspaper articles and TV video clips, web articles. Of course, your wins don't have to come from your system. A photo of a jackpot doesn't mean that your system led to the jackpot. A photo of a check or a W2G gambling form doesn't say the system was responsible for the big win. So, evidence of any win, any jackpot, any success in a casino can be used to justify a system/plan because there is really no way to challenge it.

    Step #5 Remove the possibility of challenges to your system.
    You want to remove the challenges and make it difficult or impossible for anyone to challenge you or your system. How do you do that? First, you don't accept any challenges or tests. Second, you make the conditions of tests or challenges so difficult or high that few will accept. Third, you make the system so unique -- with changing conditions and changing requirements, that the system becomes impossible to test. You combine written material with lectures, and lectures with personal counseling sessions, and personal counseling sessions with a requirement of practice, and finally a disclaimer that it can't work 100% of the time because the casinos can catch on to you and they are changing their strategies to stop you. Remember, the casinos are out to get you -- you are the enemies of the casinos -- and the buyers of your plan/strategy/secrets must be kept aware that the casinos will do anything and everything to keep them from enjoying the forbidden fruit you are selling.

    Those are the five steps for selling a gambling system. Good luck.
    This, like what fuels the AP craze, is much more about cult psychology. Not nearly so one-dimensional! A whole different study in itself.

    AP followers derive false security from deriding the systems players.

  10. #130

  11. #131
    Well this thread shows what snarky asshole acrid was in 2012, just goes to show you that some things don't change.

    Interesting that the member "ThomasClines" was eventually banned.

    What's up with that?...what happened?

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