Harrah's Rincon tightens the screws again on free play.

[Alan Mendelson]

Harrah's Rincon has tightened the screws again on free play offers. Most daily or special free play offers are now available only between the hours of 8-AM and 11:59-PM. This prevents casino patrons from playing at late night and cashing in one day's offers just before midnight and then cashing in the next day's offers just after midnight.

Locals would frequently go to Rincon late at night to redeem sequential daily offers without an overnight stay. This new policy kills that.

The screws are getting tighter and have been for about the last year when Rincon lowered free play offers.

[OceanCityMD]

At my local casino here (10 minutes away) in Maryland you can't use the free play Friday or Saturday and those days the place is packed anyway.
I just today received free play for $100 week for 5 weeks. Same play at Borgota or Ceasers A C gets me $5-10 free play. Local casino isn't A C but I win more often here.
I guess that is why they did away with the NJCC. They pretty much self regulate now, can keep any and all progressives when they 'need it' - for another thread.

[Spock]

I'm not sure if your statement was intended as a complaint, but it would seem that from a business standpoint this makes complete sense. Free play is intended to bring people in, and multiple offers are intended to bring them in on multiple days. I have a hard time criticizing a business for taking steps to increase their profitably that appear to be quite logical.

That doesn't mean I like it, just that I understand it. As time progresses their ability to find and eliminate "loop holes" such as these are likely going to increase, making it even more difficult for people who prefer low edge games to walk away with a positive balance. They are in business to improve their bottom line, not yours. The only solution I see is to patronize those establishments that are willing to accept a slightly lower profit margin to keep their customers happy, but if schemes such as the one you posted above are financially successful it is probable that eventually they will be adopted by everyone.

[Alan Mendelson]

And Spock, it also made complete sense, "from a business standpoint" when Harrah's Rincon replaced 8/5 Bonus Poker with 7/5 Bonus Poker. I put the word out on this website and as others got wind of it and complained they told Rincon's management they wouldn't play there any more. Within a couple of weeks, Rincon reversed their decision and restored 8/5 Bonus.

Just because a casino makes a good business decision doesn't mean it's good for the consumer and as consumers we should let businesses know when they go too far to protect or increase their profits.

And if we let one casino get away with it -- others will follow. And then when they are "all doing it" we, the consumers, don't stand a chance.

Rincon still hasn't restored 9/6 Jacks or Better. The best jacks or better game you will find there is 8/5 Jacks. Why anyone would play 8/5 jacks instead of 8/5 Bonus is beyond me -- but every day players at Rincon do. And they probably do because they don't have the information to make a proper decision.

Yeah, Spock, it's a complaint. It's also a warning to Rincon's management, because up the road Pechanga still offers 9/6 Jacks.

[Spock]

Point taken, and commendable.

[bigfoot66]

Not good. I decided to concentrate my play there this year and try to make diamond. I am starting to regret it. they got rid of the good machines, tripled the deposit for a hotel room, and now this? Arg. I should have stayed a Pala guy. At Pala they have 9/6 jacks with a progressive!

[Alan Mendelson]

What surprises me is that Rincon doesn't promote or offer more to get people to drive farther to get there. Remember you have to pass Pechanga and Pala and Pauma before you reach Rincon. And Valley View is just beyond Rincon.

Also the closest casino to LA is actually Morongo.

Part of the problem for Rincon might be the Caesars' management which -- I am guessing -- lacks knowledge of the local market.

[bigfoot66]

My understanding is that these changes all started around the time they got a new manager about 6 months ago...

[Alan Mendelson]

My understanding is that these changes all started around the time they got a new manager about 6 months ago...

They did bring in a new marketing manager from a Caesars property in the midwest. What I was told was that they downgraded their pay tables and their free play offers and also comps because they just weren't hitting their target for profits in the video poker department. Part of the problem is that several royals on the $100 machines were hit.

The only other casino in Southern Cal that I know of with a $100 VP denomination is Pechanga, and to be honest, I've never seen anyone play it. I say "it" because there is just one $100 machine in the high limit area now, and about a year ago there used to be two. One was removed.

Rincon has a half dozen $100 machines (alternate denomination is $25), and you will see one or two or more players there on the weekends. I was there one day when a gentleman hit a $400,000 royal, and I was there one evening when a couple of young ladies, playing deuces bonus (I think) hit for $100,000.

From what I was told, they suffered a few too many big hits too close to one another. So why didn't they just downgrade the paytables on just the $25 and $100 machines? Well, I was told, that would be unfair to the "big players." Instead they removed all 9/6 Jacks machines and made them 8/5 jacks. And instead of having 9/5 Double Double Bonus all of the DDB machines are now 8/5 including those with progressives -- and without progressives.

You still have 8/5 Bonus and 8/5 Aces and Faces at all denominations from 25-cents to $100 and frankly that's better than at Caesars Palace in Vegas, where all bonus games under $5 are 7/5 or lower, and even a few $100 and $25 machines have 7/5 Bonus.

[calwatch]

There is 9/5 JoB at Rincon. It is at the Super Times Pay machines, at the $1 level (3/5 play). You don't have to play the multiplier if you don't want to. I enjoy the swings of Super Times Pay but unfortunately the Bonus Poker version of the STP machines are 7/5. At lower denominations it is 8/5 Jacks and 6/5 (!) Bonus. After a wild swing I dialed back to bonus poker, a hand at a time, at the machines on the back wall.

The closest legitimate casino to LA is actually San Manuel. They are generally uncompetitive and compete for the low roller market, but they do advertise heavily and they are considerably closer than any of the others. Harrah's does get a good bus business - I recently took the "Card Club" shuttle on a weekday and the bus was more than half full - and they advertise heavily during sports play by play.

Since MGM is not in this market they are the only rewards program with connections to Vegas, and enough play at Rincon will trigger offers in Vegas - I have a standing room to the Rio and Imperial Palace any weekend and all of the other resorts, except for Caesars, Sunday-Thursday, and just for being a low roller. The multiplier days are good deals for higher tier players, and Rincon participates in Great Gift Wrap Up. The few times I've played slots they seem tighter than normal even for an Indian casino. The buffet is Vegas quality. They also attract from the San Diego market as well, although for residents in San Diego Viejas and Sycuan are much closer. They are doing well enough to double their gaming floor - http://www.rinconcasinoee.com/wp-con...Evaluation.pdf - at which point they will give Pechanga and Pala a run for their money.

[Alan Mendelson]

There is 9/5 JoB at Rincon. It is at the Super Times Pay machines, at the $1 level (3/5 play). You don't have to play the multiplier if you don't want to.

This is interesting. Are these the STP machines just outside the main "video poker room" and the STP games appear on a screen with others? (I wish I had a photo!)

Also, you wrote "You don't have to play the multiplier if you don't want to." What do you mean by this?

Some people think you have to play the "full credits" to trigger the Super Times Pay bonus. But I have gotten the STP bonus even when I didn't play the full credits. This happened when I was down to my last couple of credits -- and wouldn't you know it -- that's when I get a good hand with a multiplier!

[JamieV]

Harrah's Rincon has tightened the screws again on free play offers. Most daily or special free play offers are now available only between the hours of 8-AM and 11:59-PM. This prevents casino patrons from playing at late night and cashing in one day's offers just before midnight and then cashing in the next day's offers just after midnight.

Locals would frequently go to Rincon late at night to redeem sequential daily offers without an overnight stay. This new policy kills that.




The screws are getting tighter and have been for about the last year when Rincon lowered free play offers.

Yea that is a shame. I am a Diamond Level player (30,000+) tier credits and I get about $45 in match play, two tickets to any show, free rooms, and food/spa vouchers. I guess I expect more for my buck and just don't see it with Caesars properties. I finally started getting free play in Vegas about two months ago and just received some pretty decent offers through e-mail. Alan, how is Caesars treating you?

[Spock]

Also, you wrote "You don't have to play the multiplier if you don't want to." What do you mean by this?

I can't speak for the original poster, but my guess is that he is referring to the fact that you can play a single line without penalty. In most mutli-line games your first coin goes to game 1, your second to game 2, and so on until each hand you are playing has one coin, and then the next coin played would be coin 2 on hand 1, and so forth. STP allows you to play 5 or 6 coins on a single line.

Videopoker.com triple play draw poker

Some people think you have to play the "full credits" to trigger the Super Times Pay bonus. But I have gotten the STP bonus even when I didn't play the full credits. This happened when I was down to my last couple of credits -- and wouldn't you know it -- that's when I get a good hand with a multiplier!

That would seem somewhat odd as it is the 6th coin on each line that activates the STP function. You can see the effect adding one coin at a time has at:
Videopoker.com's STP machine

My guess would be that you had an uneven amount of coins, something like "14", so the first two hands had the STP, (6 coins plus 6 coins), and the top hand, (assuming 3 play), had 2 coins.

[Alan Mendelson]

Yea that is a shame. I am a Diamond Level player (30,000+) tier credits and I get about $45 in match play, two tickets to any show, free rooms, and food/spa vouchers. I guess I expect more for my buck and just don't see it with Caesars properties. I finally started getting free play in Vegas about two months ago and just received some pretty decent offers through e-mail. Alan, how is Caesars treating you?

Hi JamieV and thanks for joining us!

Where do you get "match play"?? I haven't seen match play coupons for any Caesars property ever. It's always been free play vouchers or free play tickets for slots/VP.

Caesars is not treating me well... just got a severe cut in offers including gifts and free play for the fourth quarter -- a cut of about 60%. I complained to my host who said it was a decision from marketing based on my play.

So, what's my play? As of today my tier score is 346,726 and you only need 100,000 for 7Stars. And that's not good enough, it seems. So, what's the problem?

Well, it seems that when I book an offer that has a maximum of four days, and I stay only two days, that "marketing" counts my actual two days of play as if I was really there for a four-day period. That "dilution" of may actual play makes me a "weak player."

Now, if I were in marketing, and I saw a player who had more than triple what was required for 7Stars in less than 9 months of play, and tied up a room for only half of the expected time, I'd kiss his ass and not give him a kick up the ass.

[Alan Mendelson]

My guess would be that you had an uneven amount of coins, something like "14", so the first two hands had the STP, (6 coins plus 6 coins), and the top hand, (assuming 3 play), had 2 coins.

I really don't know. I've played STP only a few times, and I can't recall how many coins were left and how many lines were in play. What I do remember is that I didn't have the "full amount" of coins played.

Thanks.

[calwatch]

This is interesting. Are these the STP machines just outside the main "video poker room" and the STP games appear on a screen with others? (I wish I had a photo!)

Also, you wrote "You don't have to play the multiplier if you don't want to." What do you mean by this?

Some people think you have to play the "full credits" to trigger the Super Times Pay bonus. But I have gotten the STP bonus even when I didn't play the full credits. This happened when I was down to my last couple of credits -- and wouldn't you know it -- that's when I get a good hand with a multiplier!

The machines are on the dedicated "Super Times Pay" machines, not on the multi-game All Star Poker machines (which don't have dollar denominations, but only go up to 25 or 50 cents, on my recollection). They are not in the "video poker" overhang but are closer to the aisle as you want between the main casino floor and the sports pit (which, on a weekend, was closed). What I am referring to "not playing the multiplier if you don't have to" is that you don't have to pay for the multiplier. However, you are supposed to at least play one hand for full credits in order to get the multiplier. If you didn't, there was probably a bug there. Harrah's Rincon also has Dreamcard machines, by the back wall, for full pay 8/5 Bonus Poker, which according to the Wizard of Odds are a better deal than regular 8/5 Bonus Poker elsewhere on the floor. The multi play Bonus Poker at Harrah's generally is 7/5 or 6/5.

Alan, if you are Seven Stars, they should absolutely be kissing your ass. If MGM was in more of the major markets, Caesars would have to up the ante significantly to keep up the high rollers. As it stands right now Caesars has the greater presence in the country.

[Alan Mendelson]

Thanks for the info, Calwatch. I am really interested in trying Dream Card. I've been playing it on videopoker.com -- it's their current contest -- and it's a lot of fun. Of course on videopoker.com it's free to play.

Can you be more specific about where it is at Rincon?

Also, I find it both amusing and troublesome that "marketing" disregards that my tier score last year was more than 420,000.

Frankly, without a significant offer there is no reason to go to Caesars or to Vegas when there is better video poker here in SoCal, and if I want to play craps I happen to love that Gold Strike casino in Jean, NV where there is usually just one or two other players and $3 minimum bet.

[JamieV]

Thanks for the info, Calwatch. I am really interested in trying Dream Card. I've been playing it on videopoker.com -- it's their current contest -- and it's a lot of fun. Of course on videopoker.com it's free to play.

Can you be more specific about where it is at Rincon?

Also, I find it both amusing and troublesome that "marketing" disregards that my tier score last year was more than 420,000.

Frankly, without a significant offer there is no reason to go to Caesars or to Vegas when there is better video poker here in SoCal, and if I want to play craps I happen to love that Gold Strike casino in Jean, NV where there is usually just one or two other players and $3 minimum bet.

Alan, you have quite the tier score my friend! I am surprised they don't treat you better? It's nearly impossible for me to get comped rooms at Caesars Palace and that's the only place I like to stay in Vegas.

Rincon gives me $45 in match play for table games or I can get $45 free play for slots. Can you go into detail about what kind of perks you get for being a 7-Star guest?

Also, you mentioned leaving early when booking your offers? I always do that! I guess it probably is hurting my rating...oops!

[Alan Mendelson]

I don't get much from Rincon either because back around January they started to reduce offers. Also, I switched to playing 8/5 Bonus and since I don't lose much (and sometimes win) my offers were cut even more. My weekly free play now is never more than $80 and I do get a few daily offers which bring the overall weekly average to about $150. But that depends on being there for certain play days.

[calwatch]

As of last week, Dreamcard is on the back wall in a corner, along with the bank of the "full pay" multi game machines. The last time I was here the spot was taken up with the Ultimate X machines - those were moved closer to the main aisle and Dreamcard put in its place.