More success for Bob Dancer losing $21,000.

[OceanCityMD]

Something to consider here.
In Dancers book he claims his (aged) father is very wealthy, so...
...it is a big difference psychologically knowing your in for a huge inheritances regardless what happens to your bank roll. I know it would for me if I was so fortunate.

[Vegas Vic]

I'm starting to like being accused of being Singer. Means his critics are listening to me and it's having an impact.
I have to admit I don't keep a distinct gambling bank roll, but then again I'm no big deal in that business. I don't believe Dancer truly does have one either and instead relies on whatever amount of income he realizes from his business. If a big check comes in that corresponds to an upcoming promotion he is mesmerized by, he'll go for it. It just doesn't make any sense to put $500,000 into the videopoker machines as an investment opportunity, and it makes even less sense to assert he does that. Arc just really confused by his post here. He's using investments to play quarters? Really?

Why are you speculating on Dancer's financial situation ala Rob Singer or even speculating at all?

[arcimede$]

For your own good, you had better decide what is your bankroll for gaming and what money is set aside for living expenses and investing. A gaming bankroll cannot be both. You cannot have part of a gaming bankroll used for "investments" or else you are fooling yourself.

Nonsense. First of all I said nothing about living expenses. It is all investments and my gambling is just another form of investment. Of course, I actually expect to make money gambling due to playing only positive return games. I realize you have to treat gambling differently because you expect to lose. Don't confuse your situation with those of us who actually know how to make money at it.

[Alan Mendelson]

Nonsense. First of all I said nothing about living expenses. It is all investments and my gambling is just another form of investment. Of course, I actually expect to make money gambling due to playing only positive return games. I realize you have to treat gambling differently because you expect to lose. Don't confuse your situation with those of us who actually know how to make money at it.

Wow. I really hope you're right.

[Vegas Vic]

Nonsense. First of all I said nothing about living expenses. It is all investments and my gambling is just another form of investment. Of course, I actually expect to make money gambling due to playing only positive return games. I realize you have to treat gambling differently because you expect to lose. Don't confuse your situation with those of us who actually know how to make money at it.

Where are all these invest-wisely-money-making, positive return games?

[regnis]

Where are all these invest-wisely-money-making, positive return games?

Come on Vic--are you forgetting 3 card monte??

[Vegas Vic]

Come on Vic--are you forgetting 3 card monte??

I did some research and found those games:

[arcimede$]

Where are all these invest-wisely-money-making, positive return games?

In my case it's the tropical paradise abbreviated MN.

[bigfoot66]

I believe in one of his articles, Dancer wrote that a bankroll is the amount of money you are willing to lose before you would give up gambling. Cannot provide support for this but it sounds like a reasonable definition, and it definitely means that part of your bankroll can be invested in semi-liquid assets.

[Alan Mendelson]

invested in semi-liquid assets.

Semi liquid assets such as interest bearing checking accounts and money market funds are not "investments," but merely parking places for cash. If you keep your gambling bankroll in interest bearing checking accounts or money market funds then that represents good money management. But if you consider your gambling bankroll part of your "investments" which include stocks, bonds, real estate, mutual funds and you liquidate those true investments to have gambling dollars, then you have a real problem in the works.

[Vegas Vic]

In my case it's the tropical paradise abbreviated MN.

My experience with Native American casinos (and Mid West casinos in general) is that they rarely have full pay VP machines. What makes Minnesota such a garden spot for VP?

[arcimede$]

Semi liquid assets such as interest bearing checking accounts and money market funds are not "investments," but merely parking places for cash.

Professional investment advice always lays out a multi-tiered portfolio. In all cases they suggest a % of the portfolio be liquid assets. This works well as a bankroll for gambling. I have a saving account that I use as my liquid asset (since it gets better interest than my investment portfolio can manage) and for gambling. I occasionally take money out for other purchases like my last vehicle.

If you keep your gambling bankroll in interest bearing checking accounts or money market funds then that represents good money management. But if you consider your gambling bankroll part of your "investments" which include stocks, bonds, real estate, mutual funds and you liquidate those true investments to have gambling dollars, then you have a real problem in the works.

I agree that one's gambling bankroll should be independent of retirement investments. However, keep in mind that people like myself are already retired so the division line is somewhat blurred.

[arcimede$]

My experience with Native American casinos (and Mid West casinos in general) is that they rarely have full pay VP machines. What makes Minnesota such a garden spot for VP?

It's far from a garden spot but does have a few positive OEJs machines.

[Alan Mendelson]

Professional investment advice always lays out a multi-tiered portfolio. In all cases they suggest a % of the portfolio be liquid assets. This works well as a bankroll for gambling. I have a saving account that I use as my liquid asset (since it gets better interest than my investment portfolio can manage) and for gambling. I occasionally take money out for other purchases like my last vehicle.

I agree that one's gambling bankroll should be independent of retirement investments. However, keep in mind that people like myself are already retired so the division line is somewhat blurred.

This is a real problem for you, and you don't realize it. Especially for someone who is retired, there are no blurred lines between money for recreation and money for living expenses. You are being both shortsighted and blindsided by your apparent success in winning. You are actually skating on thin ice unless you can commit to only using "recreation money" for gambling and keeping investment and long-term money 100% separate from recreational money.

[Alan Mendelson]

My experience with Native American casinos (and Mid West casinos in general) is that they rarely have full pay VP machines. What makes Minnesota such a garden spot for VP?

Actually, here in Southern Cal, the Native American casinos are the ones with the better -- and full pay -- pay tables. Pechanga is probably now the "king of video poker" since Rincon did away with 9/5 Double Double Bonus and 9/6 Jacks games (8/5 Bonus still exists at Rincon). Pala Casino also has full pay games like Pechanga, but it's smaller than Pechanga. I haven't been to Morongo in years but I recall it had full pay VP when I was there (can someone give us an update?).

On the other hand the Vegas strip is notorious for short pay tables.

And one word of caution: "full pay" does not mean positive machines.

Question for Arc: besides your OEJs, which you say were grandfathered in and otherwise would have been downgraded, what other "full pay" or positive games are there at your casino?

[redietz]

Alan,

To put this as bluntly as possible, you know as much about winning gambling as I know about making infomercials. You really have no business telling someone who has won for years what they are doing wrong in terms of money outlay. It's semi-ridiculous.

[arcimede$]

This is a real problem for you, and you don't realize it. Especially for someone who is retired, there are no blurred lines between money for recreation and money for living expenses. You are being both shortsighted and blindsided by your apparent success in winning. You are actually skating on thin ice unless you can commit to only using "recreation money" for gambling and keeping investment and long-term money 100% separate from recreational money.

Wrong again, I don't use any of my retirement account for living expenses. I have other sources of income.

[arcimede$]

Question for Arc: besides your OEJs, which you say were grandfathered in and otherwise would have been downgraded, what other "full pay" or positive games are there at your casino?

None. The only other games over 98% are an occasional progressive.

[Vegas Vic]

Actually, here in Southern Cal, the Native American casinos are the ones with the better -- and full pay -- pay tables. Pechanga is probably now the "king of video poker" since Rincon did away with 9/5 Double Double Bonus and 9/6 Jacks games (8/5 Bonus still exists at Rincon). Pala Casino also has full pay games like Pechanga, but it's smaller than Pechanga. I haven't been to Morongo in years but I recall it had full pay VP when I was there (can someone give us an update?).


And one word of caution: "full pay" does not mean positive machines.

I can only speak for those Mid West locations I have been to, so what you find in California may indeed be better. When I said "full pay", it's only a starting point for the discussion. I don't know if anyone here takes into account the other factors (comps, cash back, etc.) in their personal determination if the machine is positive play.

[Vegas Vic]

It's far from a garden spot but does have a few positive OEJs machines.

How positive are they? (OEJ machines are virtually non-existent in Michigan)