50 way VP

[regnis]

Saw a guy playing 25 hands on a 50 play machine--$1.00 level. That's $125.00 per spin. He had a stack of signers and it seemed as I was watching him play that he was signing every 3-5 minutes. When I looked at what he was signing for he would have aces on 1 hand for $800, but all the smaller hands when added to the $800 pushed him over 1200 and forced him to have to sign.

They take state tax (Indiana) out on all signers. Just wondering 2 things:

1. Was he "hot" in getting that many signers or, since he was playing 25 hands was that just the norm;

2. Was he being disadvantaged by playing 25 hands and having to sign for the total win of the 25 hands when on single or 3 play he wouldn't have signed.

[Alan Mendelson]

Actually, he was very lucky. Back in the "old days" I played 50-play machines at the $1 level and I didn't get many "winners" that required a W2G. I played Double Double Bonus, and it might different for those playing Jacks or Bonus, however because of the two-pair payoffs.

Let's say he was playing DDB (the most popular video poker game). If he got dealt two-pair he only got his money back. If he got dealt three of a kind paying $15 per line, then 25 lines was worth $375. If he got a full house paying 40 coins (I think most 50 play machines have an 8/5 paytable for DDB) he had $40 25 lines = $1,000. Even if it was a 9/5 Pay table for DDB the payoff on a dealt full house was $1125 and that's still not a W2G payoff.

Of course if he was dealt trips he could reasonably expect one or two quads paying 250 coins each. Here's how that would effect the payout:
23 lines X 15 coins = $345
2 lines 250 coins = $500
total for 25 lines = $845

So if you are following me, if would be quite difficult to be getting so many W2Gs.

Let's use the example of Aces, and that he was dealt trip aces:
Quad aces on one line pays $800
24 lines of trip aces pays $360
Total $1160 and no W2G

But with trip aces you can make a guess that he had perhaps 5 full houses... and that changes the total this way:
Quad aces on one line $800
Full house on five lines (8/5 paytable) $200
19 3oak hands $285
total $1385

So, to answer the questions:

1. Yeah he must have had lots of quads to have to get many W2Gs playing just 25 lines.
2. You have to declare your wins for taxes whether you get a W2G or not.

[regnis]

Thanks Alan--great analysis. He was playing DDB and was getting 800 aces but no kickers quite often. But as I look at your analysis, he must have really been on a hot streak.

Also the VP machines there kick out a voucher when your credits get to a certain level (not sure if it's 1200 or 2000). So he had stacks of vouchers and signers.
I still have no idea if he was winning since at $125 a throw, and figure 5 throws a minute because that particular machine is slow and he was playing slow, that still adds up quickly.