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Thread: Do players really know what pay tables are all about?

  1. #1
    Yesterday at Rincon I had several conversations with players who were coming and going for short spurts at the $5 progressive Double Double Bonus games. I was playing 8/5 Aces and Faces which share some of the machines in that particular row of machines. I stopped playing DDB there when they downgraded the pay tables to 8/5. It was too easy to lose money even at a pay table of 9/5 on DDB but 8/5 is not worth even trying.

    One conversation was with an older and experienced VP player who said to me right up front that the 8/5 pay table was miserable but he was going to give it a shot. He gave it a shot, and as he left he said "the grandkids will inherit a few thousand dollars less."

    Another conversation was with a player I see at Rincon all the time and he is devoted to the DDB game there. After taking out a marker and busting he left, only to return a few minutes later with another thousand dollars and he started playing other games. He is well aware of the downgrades of the games and was playing other games besides DDB by taking advantage of the other choices on these Game King machines. He was playing Bonus which had that "odd" pay table with all of the quads paying the same with no premium for Aces, 2, 3 or 4.

    Another conversation was with a middle aged woman playing the 8/5 DDB with only one coin in. On her very first play she scores quad 8s... but with one coin in... and within a few minutes, still playing one coin at a time, she loses it all back. That's when she turns to me and asks whether she should hold a small pair, or hold four cards to a low flush (no high cards, no SF possibilities). I advised her to hold the low pair, and a few hands later she asked about holding a pair of queens or if she should go for a straight. I told her to hold the queens and she drew a third. And that's when I asked her if she was a new player.

    Yes, she was new to video poker. I asked if she knew what the different pay tables meant or even what the games were? I put the question this way: "Are you familiar with this 8/5 double double bonus game?" And she answered: "What's double double bonus?"

    That's when I advised her to switch to Aces and Faces, which she did, and she turned another $100 into $300 playing one coin at a time and left.

    Over the course of several hours, I saw many players come and go at those 8/5 DDB machines, some playing a couple of hundred, and then leaving. I have to wonder if any of them really understand or know the game, or the paytable coming to a $5 8/5 DDB with only a few hundred dollars, and some playing less than 5 coins at a time?

    For the most part, I think players are just attracted to the progressive jackpot without any regard about what kind of game they actually are playing.

  2. #2
    You see so many peolple that don't use anything close to proper strategy or playing 1 coin at a dollar instead of full for a quarter. So I don't think they would understand that the paytable is an important factor.

    The other day I stumbled upon a strange pay table (at least I've never seen it). My friend and I sat down at a game and I saw that Bonus was 7-5 so I said let's move on to an 8-5 game. But he noticed that the quads 5-K paid 175 instead of 125. At the risk of being called a liar (I guess I should have taken a picture) but what does this variant do to the payback?

  3. #3
    When you observe someone holding a wild deuce and a single high card, it makes you realize the casinos are making a lot more profit than the EV of the game would suggest.

  4. #4
    Originally Posted by quahaug View Post
    When you observe someone holding a wild deuce and a single high card, it makes you realize the casinos are making a lot more profit than the EV of the game would suggest.
    Wow, this is ironic. Not only did I see a player make this move, but another player sitting next to them advised them to make this play. "You always go for the wild royal," the other player said.

  5. #5
    I admit, I don't know beans about what holds to make in deuces wild and I do play it at dollars every once in a while. I don't make that hold but I do make a lot of wild guesses that would cause concern to anyone who knows the game. I haven't done that bad with the game though (I feel I'm ahead by around $500) mostly because of the number of four deuces I've been getting. But now I suppose I'd better wait to count my money until I make it into arc's longterm, just so we can all say the math never fails. I'll definitly be behind, or else the math will snatch the cash right from under my nose.

  6. #6
    DW is probably the most difficult of all games to play because there are so many different paytables that alter the strategy for each version. Most books have a chapter or two on DW strategy but you could write books about DW strategy when you consider all the different versions and paytables.

    A lot of people play it because they can get a long run at a DW machine. And while you can have a long run, you really make "money" on only three hands... the royal, wild royal and quad deuces. Otherwise you are pretty much cycling through a lot of money and breaking even. Now, that's a pretty good thing to do if you are building up a "score" for players points or a total rewards tier level. But I hate getting quad aces on a DW machine and only get 20 coins for it.

  7. #7
    Deuces wild is actually pretty simple if you play only FPDW and the occasional NSUD when comps/cashback dictate. Don't play the other garbage deuces variations. The only game easier to play is 9/6 J or B.

    I think the general consensus is that FPDW is the second easiest game to play.

  8. #8
    Originally Posted by redietz View Post
    Deuces wild is actually pretty simple if you play only FPDW and the occasional NSUD when comps/cashback dictate. Don't play the other garbage deuces variations. The only game easier to play is 9/6 J or B.

    I think the general consensus is that FPDW is the second easiest game to play.
    Since I'm not a DW player, is FPDW available as either Nevada Deuces or Colorado Deuces or Illinois Deuces or are those different games altogether because of different paytables? What exactly is FPDW??

  9. #9
    Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson View Post
    Wow, this is ironic. Not only did I see a player make this move, but another player sitting next to them advised them to make this play. "You always go for the wild royal," the other player said.
    When I witnessed that particular play the person was not going for any wild royal. It was just plain old duh-ness.

  10. #10
    Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson View Post
    Since I'm not a DW player, is FPDW available as either Nevada Deuces or Colorado Deuces or Illinois Deuces or are those different games altogether because of different paytables? What exactly is FPDW??
    Full Pay Deuces Wild: 25-15-9-5

  11. #11
    Originally Posted by Vegas Vic View Post
    Full Pay Deuces Wild: 25-15-9-5
    Help me out here, and give us a little more detail and explanation. Which hands are we talking about? In most games, for example Bonus, when we say 8/5 its the pay for one coin for a full house and one coin for a flush. I know that DW is a different animal altogether.

    Thanks.

  12. #12
    Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson View Post
    But I hate getting quad aces on a DW machine and only get 20 coins for it.
    Ever try Bonus or Double Bonus deuces which pays 400 and 800 respectfully for 5 Aces? Five 3/4/5 also pays 200 or 250, and all other 5 OAK are at 100. There is also a bonus for 4 2's with an ace, doubling the normal quad deuces to 2000.
    Last edited by Spock; 11-20-2012 at 04:26 PM. Reason: 'cause I'm a moron who can't use proper sentance structure

  13. #13
    I believe there are versions of bonus deuces where holding an ace with a deuce is the correct play.

  14. #14
    Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson View Post
    Help me out here, and give us a little more detail and explanation. Which hands are we talking about? In most games, for example Bonus, when we say 8/5 its the pay for one coin for a full house and one coin for a flush. I know that DW is a different animal altogether.

    Thanks.
    Pay table:

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