The funny thing is, given your logic, they should. Because fat people being fat also weakens our country. Therefore, following the same logic of discouraging deviant and non productive behavior, things like soft drinks, which provide no value to society other than tasting good, provide no nutritional value, should also be banned. The only people who should be supportive of soft drink freedom are libertarians, who don't believe in society, only individuals.Originally Posted by Bob21
Since this thread has devolved into a wildly different discussion....did anybody see where Nevada's Dem. Governor refused to sign some libtard bill that would force their 6 Electoral votes to not count towards who Nevada voters voted for?
In essence, it would have made those Electoral votes be aligned with how California's ragtag collection of illegals, foreigners, minorities, transgender freaks, faggots, weirdos, and collection of EXTREMELY CONFUSED PEOPLE voted.
God Bless America. We do something right every now and then.
I don't understand the labeling of people that goes on at this site. Especially when you don't know a person or all, or most of their views. Someone like BBB at Wov and a few others there it is fair to do, because they share their views so often and always come down as a bleeding liberal. But most people, like myself, you are taking a very narrow opinion about a specific topic and throwing a label on someone. It is a form of demonizing people that don't agree with you. Bob21 seems to be a master.
The comparison numerous people make concerning the casino industry and other businesses is just bogus. Casinos destroy lives. Many lives. There is no comparison to supermarkets, airlines, movie theaters or anything else. Those of us that spend a lot of time in casinos are FAR to aware of this. And sure people can argue personal responsibility. But that doesn't work. The grandmother that loses her social security check, or the Father that loses his paycheck and can't pay rent or buy food for his family aren't being held responsible. Granny isn't going to end up one of those cronic homeless living in a cardboard box. The guys family isn't going to end up on the street as some of those putrid smelling folks that you get a wiff of from 100 yards away. Both these cases are going to end up on government programs, programs that you and I pay for. So don't give me personal responsibility. I end up paying for them and being responsible. And I don't like it! Not when it is the casino industry and it's predatory behavior not really associated with it's business model that are responsible for this crap. They get off scott free.
I mean if the casino industries business model is about gambling, then they don't need to cash checks. They are not a bank. Make their money from people gambling.
Now since someone said that most AP's are liberals, I will weigh in on that. I don't agree. For one I think very few people are strictly liberal or strictly conservative. I think most have views in the middle and sometimes come down one way or the other. But I would say it seems like there are fewer true conservatives in the AP ranks because of just what conservative means. Conservative means cautious or acting very safe. You take that to the extreme and truly conservative people probably don't have the stomach for any kind of risk (monetarily), even on a recreational basis. But certainly not making a living from. That is not the cautious or safe path. Getting a good job and a safe career is the safe path. APing for a living or really any kind of self employment is far away from the way they think.
I saw where the legislature passed that bill. I knew the governor hadn't committed to it. So not surprised. Quite a few states have passed this measure. I don't like it. While I do think the electorial college is outdated and needs to be revisited, this plan is an end run around it. Don't do that. address the problem and fix it.Originally Posted by Rob.Singer
And I am sure the "righties" on this site are big electoral college supporters because they have benefited twice in the last 5 elections, they will be ready to revisit it when it goes against them. Let's not talk about Trump because passions run too high being the current situation, but suppose Bush/Gore had played out just the opposite. Suppose Gore eeked out a tiny electoral victory while Bush received a million more votes. I wonder how the "righties" would respond to that.
And really with the liberal states like California continuing to grow, that possibility isn't that far down the road. Might get to where if New York, California and a couple other states vote one way, the entire rest of the country could vote the other and it wouldn't be enough. You gonna be ok with that Rob?
And since Rob's great AP play thread has veered off to all these other topic like politics. I have a question about a political issue that is in the news a lot these days for my far right friends. Abortion. It happens to be a topic I just have no interest in one way or the other. But the right, desperately wants to overturn abortion and has for almost 50 years now. Now it is safe to say, the right doesn't like minorities right. I suppose someone will argue that point, but they aren't being honest. And Minorities are disproportionately democrats.
So who gets the most abortions? Blacks and Latinos. So you outlaw abortion and you are increasing the black and Latino populations that the far right doesn't like. I mean it is like you are creating extra democratic voters down the road.Funny shit! AND blacks and Latinos are disproportionately poor, right? Am I going to get an argument on this?
So doing away with abortion means creating more poor black and Latino folks, collecting government programs that I pay for, or at very least in that lower income bracket that pays no taxes but collects tax refunds. And THEN like I said 20 years down the road, extra voters voting against you.
LOL!
>the right doesn't like minorities right
Depends what generation of "the right".
The boomers and gen X conservatives really did buy into the equalism idea that was drilled into their heads in schools, and are much more likely to lean toward the individualist/libertarian version of conservatism. These are the types who unironically believe the "Democrats are the real racists!" stuff.
The younger millennial and especially zoomer right wingers are the ones who lean on the "ethnostate" end of the spectrum.
Now yes, it doesn't make logical sense from that standpoint to oppose abortion, however many do, because of religion. They genuinely do believe that abortion is the taking of a human life just the same as putting a gun to a fully grown adult's head and pulling the trigger, and oppose it on moral grounds.
Kj, like most APs, you seem confused about casinos. You want them to be legal, but then you continue to blame them for everything under the sun. You blame them for people going bankrupt, for grandmother losing her social security check, for some idiot Philly Eagles owner having to sell his team, etc.Originally Posted by kewlJ
If you truly believe “Casinos destroy lives. Many lives.” then why do you think they should be legal? Isn’t that part of the role of government? To protect its citizens against things that “destroy lives”?
I’ve come to the conclusion the reason liberals don’t like religious conservatives is because religious conservative position is consistent and liberals have no idea what they believe. Look at Kj. He’s wants casinos to be legal, but at the same time says “Casinos destroy lives”. That’s a very inconsistent position.
By the way, casinos do NOT destroy lives. No one is forcing someone to gamble to the point of destroying their life. That person is doing it (destroying his life by gambling too much) by his own free will. Last I checked we live in a free country.
Kj, if you don’t like casinos cashing people’s checks then you need to work within our system to make this against the law. Personally, I think this is a great service the casinos provide. This way people don’t need to waste a trip to the bank.
Mickey is the one who I’m most confused by. He seems to want casinos to be legal but then he sends me an article (or stated more correctly attached an article to one of his posts intended for me) explaining all the downsides that occur when casinos come into a new community, like crime, divorce and bankruptcies increase, and I’m sure a lot of other bad things occur. So I’m thinking if Mickey believes all this why does he want casinos to be legal? Does he like lives destroyed? Anyway very confusing.
I hope I’m on Mickeys ignore list so he doesn’t read this. It’ll probably just get him more confused.
It may be a "crime" to get this thread back on track again, but those are the breaks. It's more of a close-out for me than anything else.
This past weekend I had my son and daughter along with their spouses here for a get-together at my request. While the kids swam and texted their friends, I broke the news to them all at the same time (including to my wife, who really didn't understand what I was telling her the first time around) about what I did with the vp machines for 5+ years.
Their reactions? None of them understood anything because none of them go to casinos other than the once-every-2-years to party thing. But the overwhelming response was "we figured you knew what you were doing because you always do" and when I told them about the two greedy stupid clowns who got caught and arrested/cleared from doing the same thing when my play ended, they said they knew from living with me that I would never do anything wrong anyway.
How does it get any better than that? Anyone who's involved with casinos would NEVER have any problem with anyone explaining how they exploited a play like this. Or at least there's no way that they should.
As mentioned, these machines are still out there. You just have to care enough to understand that. The two low limit ones I found at Indian casinos confirmed that to me. Common sense says there are others--possibly many others. I hope others find and exploit them as well. If I do find any in LV or even in Laughlin or Reno/Tahoe after I get back on two feet--and you can be sure I'll be looking since I've already had my sweet piece of the casino pie--and since I will no longer be traveling between Az. and Nv. weekly, I will inform axel about it/them so he can hammer them.
Rachel Maddow and Don Lemon. Can you believe our TV's have devolved into showing weirdos like these??
Rachel Maddow. I don't watch her(or anyone for that matter) but the few times I have I didn't like that dyke.
Do machines with the double up feature normally have signs advertising that?
Or do you just have to recognize that it's the right model to have the option and ask them to turn it on?
Normally they do not. I think you would have to play a hand and get a win in order to know. However, there's a good chance that all these years I haven't noticed there's actually a way to tell in the help screen or some other way. If I want to know, I usually just play the machine to find out. But that's a good question for someone not very familiar with VP. It made me wonder if I had been missing something. Because some older models of VP did advertise this fact.Originally Posted by smurgerburger
Best I remember, they do not. When I won the $800, I thought I hit the cash out button. When I looked down, there was "are you sure"? I thought it was cash out, but then came the choice and I was puzzled and asked a floor host and he told me I had to play it through. Bye bye $800!Originally Posted by smurgerburger
The big thing to keep in mind (this is a reminder - Ron already mentioned this) when running this play is that the denominational spread is going to be tight. Maybe 5c and 10c have the same pay table and then 25c and 50c the same pay table different from the 5c and 10c, etc.. It is extremely unlikely you will find something like 5c to $1 with the same paytable nowadays. So, yeah, the machines that have the double up bug are all over the fucking place (with double up usually not enabled), but you have to have the same pay table. Pipe dream plays where you grind away until you get an AWAK (DDB or TDB) at the 5 cent level and then jump up to $25 are a thing of the past.
Edit: one way you can get really cute with this play (speculation) is to find multi-hand with double-up - I believe there is overlap between the two features on the target Game King models . . .
Last edited by tableplay; 06-02-2019 at 12:48 AM.
Getting double on a 4 of a kind and up, on something like bonus poker deluxe would be in the neighborhood of 120%. 130% if you included the full houses. Playing nickles switching to dimes you could make over $50 an hour. 10 x that amount playing .50 going to $1Originally Posted by tableplay
I think it's pretty common for the top two denominations to have the same paytables, or if not the top two then all the lower denominations.Originally Posted by tableplay
What I'm not so sure about is how many vulnerable machines are out there. I guess they were not able to do remote firmware updates, so they must have offered free chip upgrades and also sent the memo warning about the double up feature.
How many are left after that I don't know.
That's why there ARE vulnerable machines out there--IGT first warned it's worldwide customers, the memo told them that a fix was coming, then they sent out new chips to all. It was up to each and every casino to manually go around and change the upgraded chip in each and every affected machine....on the planet. Just knowing how people in business generally operate, there'd be zero chance of 100% compliance from the get-go. This is why Barona and Peppermill Corp. have policies of never enabling the DU option in any machines again. And it's for sure there are others.
Back then it wasn't just walk in, sit down, and destroy. You had to sit at a mid-2002 or later machine, but by 2005 these were plentiful because they were anti-glare/flat screen/tito, and everybody wanted them. The older coin-droppers/curved tube screens were updated but did not have the software bug. Today it's slightly more challenging since newer machines without the bug have come out after mid-2009, but by and large a majority of those 2002-2009 machines remain on casino floors. If you steer clear of machines that do everything but give you a back rub you have a better chance of coming across one.
I've not seen the DU option advertised and always played to a winning hand to see if it was turned on. Most aren't, but back then there was little problem getting it enabled. I've found it a bit more difficult these days, although you can find it already activated here and there.
That's another thing--4 and 5 denomination machines these days are usually gonna have different pay tables on the lower denoms vs. the higher one or two. But if you find one of these it all comes down to how creative you are with your movements, because to make money you'll have to make this play an awful lot at that one machine. I was always concerned some yahoo nobody might accidentally see me making some odd moves, but it was all just in my head. This is what led me to my one-and-done approach at only higher limits, but it was probably not necessary. If I had lived in Nv. I would have surely changed my strategy.
You can add this post to the list of evidence that Rob actually did put this play down.Originally Posted by Rob.Singer
Druff, let us know when you receive redietz’ credit score.
I would be wary of putting the play down in an Indian Casino. They operate under a different set of laws.
Druff, let us know when you receive redietz’ credit score.
Originally Posted by mickeycrimmYou can add this post to the list of evidence that Rob actually did put this play down.Originally Posted by Rob.Singer
Definitely. But mickey, you left something out:
AND as evidence that he purposefully misled hundreds if not thousands of Gaming Today readers, manipulated Alan Mendelson into publicizing the lies that were a cover story, and basically "trained" people to do what? Play the denomination-switching or the double down?
It's the equivalent of my discovering a sportsbook whose parlay payoffs were glitched, so I wrote articles explaining that people should play parlays, and posted thousands of times recommending parlays, but never mentioned the site with the glitch.
Rob has been called a fraud a thousand times about his video poker system. Is he? After years of arguing with Rob about it and reading what others argue about it I've just simply come to the conclusion that Rob believes in his system. Do I believe it? Well, no, not really. But I've never tried it either. One of the repeated allegations is Rob somehow made money off those he taught the system to. But it's been many years and no one has come forward saying he charged them or made them use his card or anything like that. As far as his books go, everyone from Dancer on down say there is no money in books.Originally Posted by redietzOriginally Posted by mickeycrimmYou can add this post to the list of evidence that Rob actually did put this play down.Originally Posted by Rob.Singer
Definitely. But mickey, you left something out:
AND as evidence that he purposefully misled hundreds if not thousands of Gaming Today readers, manipulated Alan Mendelson into publicizing the lies that were a cover story, and basically "trained" people to do what? Play the denomination-switching or the double down?
It's the equivalent of my discovering a sportsbook whose parlay payoffs were glitched, so I wrote articles explaining that people should play parlays, and posted thousands of times recommending parlays, but never mentioned the site with the glitch.
I think Rob believes in his system and thats why he has stuck to his guns all these years. Can I tell you that it works. Sure can't.
Druff, let us know when you receive redietz’ credit score.
Yes exactly - no one and dones (probably);money getting fed into machines with credits already on the machine and hours of exposure. Probably better than hand pays. So it's definitely a money maker - but a little higher risk IMHO and more time-consuming depending on money goals but I would think a person would want to spend a while on the machine if they took the trouble to expose themselves in the first place. Multi-hand BPD would shorten the time between quads (when did quick quads come out ? - LOL) if it's true that there was overlap between double-up and multi-hand and I suspect there was.Originally Posted by AxelWolf
Originally Posted by Rob.Singer
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