Has Sweden found the right solution to coronavirus?

[Bob21]

I’ve been reading quite a few articles about Sweden and how they are taking the opposite approach to the coronavirus pandemic as all the other developed countries. They are not going into total lockdown. Their elementary school kids are still going to school, partially to become herd immunized by contracting the virus. We know this virus doesn’t do much to kids. Their restaurants and bars are still open. The people still try to keep their distance, but things aren’t shutting down. It’s the old and sick people that are being kept in quarantine.

So far it’s working. They have very few cases and not many deaths.

Since I’m my phone, I don’t know how to post an article but a really good one is from the National Review that just came out today, with the title the same as my title in this thread. I know there are some liberals here and they might not like reading National Review because it’s considered a conservative magazine, so you can check out some other ones.

There are a couple other good articles in more liberal magazines that refer to the Sweden experiment too and so far everything I’ve read is positive. Looks like there might have been a better approach than what we’re doing here. I know it’s still early so we need to be on the lookout at for what’s going on in Sweden.

[LMR]

That's great, Bob. Let the kids get it, let the virus evolve into a kid killer.

[Bob21]

That's great, Bob. Let the kids get it, let the virus evolve into a kid killer.

Good point. Let’s see what happens. So far your predictions haven’t come true. I wasn’t the one that put the Sweden experiment in place. I’m just reporting on it. Have you ever made a positive comment in your life?

[Midwest Player]

Bob, you blew it on this one. Look at the map and you will see Sweden has a very high death rate. As of right now Sweden's rate is over 6.6%. The death rate is USA is less than 3%. Look at the countries near Sweden. Sweden isn't doing great at all.
https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/map.html

[LMR]

Have you ever made a positive comment in your life?

Not about Trump.

[Bob21]

Bob, you blew it on this one. Look at the map and you will see Sweden has a very high death rate. As of right now the rate is over 6.6%. The death rate is USA is less than 3%. Look at the countries near Sweden. Sweden isn't doing great at all.
https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/map.html

Thanks for posting these stats Midwest Player. Good to see you’re still active over here. This is a much better site than BJTF.

Could you please post the article I referred to too from The National Reivew so everybody can get a balanced view. You have the ability to post articles, I don’t. Thanks!

And it’s still a little early to see who’s approach is the best. Let’s hold off judgment till we see how this plays out.

[kewlJ]

Bob, are you looking at information that is several days old? I know last week some experts were looking at Sweden and how they were handling and their low numbers and wondering what they were doing right. But over the weekend I saw reports that Sweden's numbers were beginning to explode. The same thing occurred in China, (although it is hard to trust their numbers) and then in Italy, then other European countries, then the United States. All of the sudden, transmission just explodes. Actually it explodes a week to 10 days before you see the numbers verifying that it has exploded. And when that occurs, you have missed any opportunity to contain the virus. That is what is now occurring in Sweden. They are just weeks behind other European countries and even a couple weeks behind the U.S.

[Bob21]

Bob, are you looking at information that is several days old? I know last week some experts were looking at Sweden and how they were handling and their low numbers and wondering what they were doing right. But over the weekend I saw reports that Sweden's numbers were beginning to explode. The same thing occurred in China, (although it is hard to trust their numbers) and then in Italy, then other European countries, then the United States. All of the sudden, transmission just explodes. Actually it explodes a week to 10 days before you see the numbers verifying that it has exploded. And when that occurs, you have missed any opportunity to contain the virus. That is what is now occurring in Sweden. They are just weeks behind other European countries and even a couple weeks behind the U.S.

Kj, you might be right but it’s still early. Let’s see how this plays out. All the articles I read were from today. Long-term the best approach might be to herd immunitize. I’ve read this from several experts here and not just what’s going on over in Sweden.

We’re in unchartered territory with this, so it’s not like anybody knows what’s the best approach till it’s all over and then we can assess it. I give Sweden a lot of credit for trying something different.

Destroying economies kills people to. I wonder how the liberal media are going to count all those people?

[mcap]

First we bring the economy to a screeching halt, then we distance from the socialists, then we immunize the sheep herd. We’re just going to wing it based on terrible models that aren’t any better than wild ass guessing and do the hybrid approach. You can’t order us all to stay at home with no sports for 18 months though fuck that.

[kewlJ]

First we bring the economy to a screeching halt, then we distance from the socialists, then we immunize the sheep herd. We’re just going to wing it based on terrible models that aren’t any better than wild ass guessing and do the hybrid approach. You can’t order us all to stay at home with no sports for 18 months though fuck that.

Mcap, ho is your pops doing? Recovering? Would this be your father or grandfather?

[mcap]

First we bring the economy to a screeching halt, then we distance from the socialists, then we immunize the sheep herd. We’re just going to wing it based on terrible models that aren’t any better than wild ass guessing and do the hybrid approach. You can’t order us all to stay at home with no sports for 18 months though fuck that.

Mcap, ho is your pops doing? Recovering? Would this be your father or grandfather?

Father. He is getting better now, just weak with not much energy but he’s eating and moving around now, thanks for asking. Never did give him a COVID test, his doc sent him to urgent care who said pneumonia so who knows what caused the pneumonia....got some antibiotics and prescription cough medicine.

[kewlJ]

First we bring the economy to a screeching halt, then we distance from the socialists, then we immunize the sheep herd. We’re just going to wing it based on terrible models that aren’t any better than wild ass guessing and do the hybrid approach. You can’t order us all to stay at home with no sports for 18 months though fuck that.

Mcap, ho is your pops doing? Recovering? Would this be your father or grandfather?

Father. He is getting better now, just weak with not much energy but he’s eating and moving around now, thanks for asking. Never did give him a COVID test, his doc sent him to urgent care who said pneumonia so who knows what caused the pneumonia....got some antibiotics and prescription cough medicine.

good to hear.

I wasn't going to say anything because I know there will be people on this forum wishing the worst, but my brother has been ill since Friday night. First night was pretty mild, achy and a low fever. Saturday night and last night were pretty bad. Spike in fever and more discomfort, headache, pressure in his chest. He says he feels like someone is sitting on his chest. But no trouble catching his breath which is good.

So since Saturday, he feels some better each day during the day, although he is tired and falls asleep alot, but more discomfort and higher temperature at night, including tonight.

I am scared to death because since we live in the same condo, I don't see how I escape getting sick. I am staying as clear of him as possible, but still trying to help him. I am also scared because he is my brother and I love him dearly. I love that kid. He is my best friend. He is young and healthy and hopefully his symptoms will not get worse and he will recover in a few days. But this virus really sucks! Every day I wake up and think are we (USA and world) really going through this shit in this day and age?

[Bob21]

There is another article that came out today on Sweden’s experiment in the Washington Post. And everybody knows the Washington post is a liberal newspaper.

The title is “Coronavirus? Pandemic? For many in Sweden life goes on as usual”. It’s not as positive as the National Reivew article, but overall I thought it gave a positive slant to what is going on in Sweden. It’d be good if someone could post these two articles so people could read them and make their own judgment and comments.

Sweden is definitely taking a very different approach to what we’re doing here in United States and what other parts of the world are doing. I give Sweden and a lot of credit for trying something different.

[Midwest Player]

Mcap, ho is your pops doing? Recovering? Would this be your father or grandfather?

Father. He is getting better now, just weak with not much energy but he’s eating and moving around now, thanks for asking. Never did give him a COVID test, his doc sent him to urgent care who said pneumonia so who knows what caused the pneumonia....got some antibiotics and prescription cough medicine.

good to hear.

I wasn't going to say anything because I know there will be people on this forum wishing the worst, but my brother has been ill since Friday night. First night was pretty mild, achy and a low fever. Saturday night and last night were pretty bad. Spike in fever and more discomfort, headache, pressure in his chest. He says he feels like someone is sitting on his chest. But no trouble catching his breath which is good.

So since Saturday, he feels some better each day during the day, although he is tired and falls asleep alot, but more discomfort and higher temperature at night, including tonight.

I am scared to death because since we live in the same condo, I don't see how I escape getting sick. I am staying as clear of him as possible, but still trying to help him. I am also scared because he is my brother and I love him dearly. I love that kid. He is my best friend. He is young and healthy and hopefully his symptoms will not get worse and he will recover in a few days. But this virus really sucks! Every day I wake up and think are we (USA and world) really going through this shit in this day and age?

Get him tested for covid-19.

[kewlJ]

Get him tested for covid-19.

He doesn't want to be tested right now. He doesn't want to end up in the hospital. I can't blame him for that. Probably the worse place you can be, at least until you really need to be. He is not in a great deal of discomfort so far. Worse at night. During the day he is just playing his video games like usual. I think this is the best place for him at the moment. Hopefully he will recover with in a few days, and at some point after when they really get testing for the antibodies, he will get tested and know for sure that he had it, and is now immune for at least a period of time.

[mcap]

Get him tested for covid-19.

He doesn't want to be tested right now. He doesn't want to end up in the hospital. I can't blame him for that. Probably the worse place you can be, at least until you really need to be. He is not in a great deal of discomfort so far. Worse at night. During the day he is just playing his video games like usual. I think this is the best place for him at the moment. Hopefully he will recover with in a few days, and at some point after when they really get testing for the antibodies, he will get tested and know for sure that he had it, and is now immune for at least a period of time.

UNLV is doing some curbside testing now. IDK if your brother would be able to get one or not if he’s able to breathe fine. Have to call appointment, article from 4 days ago says they’re getting 2-3k calls per day and had tested 1800 people. His choice, if he’s slowly getting better not bad to say best to leave tests for those having trouble breathing.

[Ex-AP]

I’ve been reading quite a few articles about Sweden and how they are taking the opposite approach to the coronavirus pandemic as all the other developed countries. They are not going into total lockdown. Their elementary school kids are still going to school, partially to become herd immunized by contracting the virus. We know this virus doesn’t do much to kids. Their restaurants and bars are still open. The people still try to keep their distance, but things aren’t shutting down. It’s the old and sick people that are being kept in quarantine.

So far it’s working. They have very few cases and not many deaths.

Since I’m my phone, I don’t know how to post an article but a really good one is from the National Review that just came out today, with the title the same as my title in this thread. I know there are some liberals here and they might not like reading National Review because it’s considered a conservative magazine, so you can check out some other ones.

There are a couple other good articles in more liberal magazines that refer to the Sweden experiment too and so far everything I’ve read is positive. Looks like there might have been a better approach than what we’re doing here. I know it’s still early so we need to be on the lookout at for what’s going on in Sweden.

1. The data on death rates are estimates; for example, the death rate in Italy is MUCH HIGHER than reported so take a big grain of salt when using data. In data analysis, we have a saying GIGO or garbage in garbage out!

N Taleb is winning the current debate on “evidence-based” reasoning; for starters it’s deeply flawed. As Taleb writes: absence of evidence is not evidence of absence (of said data). Just because you don’t see it doesn’t mean it won’t happen or doesn’t exist. US death rates is now over 10K and most people didn’t see this in the early part of March (except for people who understood exponential growth! ... what we didn’t know was how fast the curve would accelerate or blow up).

2. UK tried herd mentality and it failed miserably. Even the UK PM is now in ICU.

3. The best case of a country beating the Wuhan Virus is Taiwan. They got hit hard by SARS 18 years ago and were prepared for the Wuhan Virus. They had a plan and went by the book because they learned their lessons.

4. Asymptomatic people, hosts or carriers without displaying the symptoms, are unknowingly transmitting the Wuhan Virus and this helps explain the mitigation strategy of lock downs. Locking up only the elderly or sick people is not going to work.

Here is the deal: We don’t debate advantage plays based on actual outcomes, we debate them based on EXPECTATIONS!! Just so sad that people would look at data to make an argument when they should have looked at EXPECTED RESULTS. I knew US deaths were coming based on limited ICU beds & number of ventilators because I was looking at expectations as N Taleb taught me in his books and based on my training in 20+ years beating casinos.

[mickeycrimm]

Has Sweden Found The Right Solution To The Coronavirus

https://news.search.yahoo.com/search...&hsimp=yhs-102

[mickeycrimm]

Coronavirus? Pandemic? For Many In Sweden Life Goes On

https://r.search.yahoo.com/_ylt=AwrX...Wea.9.JUEYfQA-

[Ex-AP]

You guys need to look at a standardized metric like deaths per 1 million.

Sweden is clocking in at 59 deaths per 1 million

USA is at 36 deaths per 1 million.

Italy is at 273 & Spain is at 295.

Taiwan & New Zealand is at 0.2.

Source is https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/ (and data is dynamic as is fluid).

Summary:

1. If you looking at absolute deaths, then you are missing the point. Based on deaths per 1 million, Sweden is doing a horrible job at Wuhan Virus containment.

2. You need to be careful about the data as certain countries do not have enough tests so Wuhan Virus related deaths are not being picked up.