Arc, you continue to argue "math" as it relates to Singer's system. I'm going to say this for the umpteenth time:

Even Rob says his "special plays" have a lower expected value than what the "math" or "conventional strategy" says to do. He doesn't dispute it or the math.

He suggests certain hands where you take your chances diverting from the "conventional strategy" that might provide a win.

The rest of us call it "taking a shot." On the LVA forum I made the analogy that what Rob does on video poker, craps players do the same thing by betting the long shots such as aces and boxcars-- and now the new "fire bet."

Rob's special plays and in fact his entire system is not an issue about math at all -- it's really an issue of preference or how you want to play. Do you want to take the "shots" or do you want to play the "grind"? (Rob do I have it right?)

Frank, I dont think, was agreeing with Rob's system because of "the math." I think he was interested in Rob's system to help players come up with some sort of rules of play because they do not "know" the math or the basic strategy that the math calls for. In other words, I think Frank was looking for a "Plan B" for those who didn't understand "Plan A," and his feeling was that some plan is better than no plan.

Arc, Ive sat next to vp players at the $5/coin level who dont have a clue as to what theyre doing. In one email exchange I had with Frank he said one of his goals was to come up with something that would help the masses who are in fact clueless when it comes to the math.