The Adventures of MDawg (in progress)

[Pitboss1]

This member Mdawg is pretty much done here as well as the forum WOV, is that what you guys are stating?

As far as what the gentleman is talking about with tips it's a little more complicated than one or two sentences can explain. But I will tell you I don't think he's far off from the absolute truth, talking about how higher end play with tipping at the table works. I'm not sure about what people are talking about posted on the other forum with his room charges. I know what happens in the pit and from the bit that I read that he wrote, he's pretty accurate.

[kewlJ]

I know what happens in the pit and from the bit that I read that he wrote, he's pretty accurate.

No you don't! Because you are not a pit boss. You just play one on TV....i mean the forums.

[BoSox]

This member Mdawg is pretty much done here as well as the forum WOV, is that what you guys are stating?

As far as what the gentleman is talking about with tips it's a little more complicated than one or two sentences can explain. But I will tell you I don't think he's far off from the absolute truth, talking about how higher end play with tipping at the table works. I'm not sure about what people are talking about posted on the other forum with his room charges. I know what happens in the pit and from the bit that I read that he wrote, he's pretty accurate.

Okay, MDawg has plenty of knowledge about high stakes tipping, is that supposed to gain him some sort of credibility? He even stated that when he was often betting large his tips also became large, what do you think those tips did to the house edges percentages? Your statement just makes his case more disturbing.

[coach belly]

what do you think those tips did to the house edges percentages?

How could tipping affect the house edge?

[BoSox]

what do you think those tips did to the house edges percentages?

How could tipping affect the house edge?

WHAT!

[coach belly]

what do you think those tips did to the house edges percentages?

How could tipping affect the house edge?

WHAT!

That's not an answer.

Does tipping the dealer affect the house edge?

Which dropbox does the tip money go into, or is it returned to the rack?

[MDawg]

This is a worthwhile thread of the conversation worth commenting on. Although, I have already posted the below, more than once, before.

If I am out to win say, three grand, and I end up putting some dealer bets along the side of my bets, for them to pick up cash as I win, when I reach my goal I will not have 3256 because I did not tip, I will have three grand and I will stop. This is very hard for some of these grinders to understand. Tipping, at worst, makes it take a bit longer for me to get to my goal, but typically you're talking about maybe a matter of seconds longer than it would take if I had not tipped.

There are times when I was in the hole thousands of dollars, even ten, twenty or more thousand in the hole, and quit when I got back to even, barely walking with a hundred dollars. (When I am negative and I get back to even, I generally quit immediately.) Along the way, either before I started getting in the hole, or on the way back up as I started powering back up, I might have placed bets for the dealers alongside mine, such that at the end of the session, I might win barely a hundred dollars (got back to even and left) and the dealers might have actually won more than I did. But given that my goal was to get back to even, no matter what I still would have stopped when I got back to even I would not have that additional money I tipped out in front of me if I had not tipped.

The way I play, tipping doesn't affect my bottom line. This last trip my goal at some point that I declared for myself was fifty grand. If I had never tipped, yes possibly I would have reached that goal sooner, but otherwise, it wouldn't have affected anything in terms of what I walked with - I just would have stopped sooner. And as it turned out, I ended up winning about 74 grand anyway, due to an exceptional final shoe.


Also, the way Baccarat players play the house edge doesn't really affect them. Most Bacc players play until they either win a ton, or lose a ton, and they don't just sit there betting bank only grinding it out. If there were NO house edge at all and it were a true 50-50 game still most Baccarat players would end up winning or losing about the same. Honestly, the typical Baccarat player just plays until he loses all his chips. That is the M.O. of most Bacc. players. The house edge doesn't affect their sadly consistent end result of total loss. Look at me too - this last trip, at the third resort I had a theo loss of some eighty grand but ended up winning just at that third resort alone, according to their tally, some fifty two grand. I couldn't really tell you exactly to the last dollar what portion of the seventy four grand I took home was from that third resort, but most of it came from there.

[Darkoz]

MDawg has said multiple occasions he plays with other people at the table.

He even brags he wins while they lose.

If the pitboss added tips to the win by keeping count of the tip tray, how does he manage that with multiple players at the table.

He looks at the tip tray and says, yep two tips for MDawg, one tip for that other guy?

Perhaps, we have learned the secret of MDawg always winning. He pays off the pitbosses to add up all wins and losses from the other players and attribute them to MDawg, lmao

[BoSox]

How could tipping affect the house edge?

WHAT!

That's not an answer.

Does tipping the dealer affect the house edge?

Which dropbox does the tip money go into, or is it returned to the rack?

From a player's perspective, tipping does in fact affect the EV percentages by the fact the player is putting up more money to hopfully win less in return.

[coach belly]

He looks at the tip tray

Where do they use tip trays that can be viewed and kept track of?

I've only ever seen drop boxes.

Consider this scenario...a player buys in for $1K.

He bets $500 for himself on player, and $500 for the dealer on player.

The outcome for the round is "pay the player".

The player takes his $1K and walks, the dealer drops his $1K in the dealer toke box.

How much did the house lose for that round?

[coach belly]

From a player's perspective, tipping does in fact affect the EV

The tips don't do into the house dropbox.

I asked how does tipping affect the house edge?

You still haven't answered.

[MDawg]

Most of the time I play alone. Sometimes some bozo comes along and generally upsets the flow of my win, including by betting against me. When someone bets against you even if you win, it sometimes gets you to lower your bet as you figure, hmm, maybe this bozo is finally going to win a hand this time.
I always try to play alone though and I've said that many times. WHY DarkOz keeps trying to state what I state, and getting it somehow wrong - in some cases close, but still wrong, I don't know.

This last trip, as I wrote in my trip report, I befriended a big player who had his own reserve table. He played rarely and told the pit bosses that only I was allowed to play at his table when he was not there. This helped a lot to keep away the other players whom I consider all to be losers. It would probably be great if the other players lost every hand - then I could just bet against them and win every time, but it's not that simple. They just tend to all lose from my perspective, they all seem to lose by the end of the session, or day, or week.

[coach belly]

If the pitboss added tips to the win by keeping count of the tip tray, how does he manage that with multiple players at the table.

They reconcile the table drop with the rack, they don't track the tips.

Payroll tracks the tips, tips don't affect the house's bottom line at all.

[MDawg]

It also depends on the dollar amount. Twenty five bucks tipped - who cares. But years ago when I was playing much bigger, I've had sessions where I have tipped out ten grand via dealer side bets, including at blackjack. Try to tell me they didn't account for that.

[coach belly]

I have tipped out ten grand via dealer side bets, including at blackjack. Try to tell me they didn't account for that.

They account for as they do with all of the outcomes.

The fact that you gave your chips to somebody else doesn't favor the house or increase the house's win.

The house edge is determined by the rules of the game, not whether the player keeps his chips or gifts them to somebody else.

[kewlJ]

WHAT!

That's not an answer.

Does tipping the dealer affect the house edge?

Which dropbox does the tip money go into, or is it returned to the rack?

From a player's perspective, tipping does in fact affect the EV percentages by the fact the player is putting up more money to hopfully win less in return.

100% correct. Tipping does not effect the house edge (casino's expected value or expected win), but it does effect the players expectation by adding to a negative player expectation or reducing a positive player expectation.

[MDawg]

Well, what the guy Bosox is trying to say in a roundabout manner is that if I place two grand for my bet, and fifty bucks on the side for the dealer, if I win I will get 2000 whereas if I lose I will lose 2050. But as I have explained, I am an end results player. If my goal is to win three grand or five grand or whatever the target, I will stop when I get to that goal. I will not have 3000 + whatever I tipped or 5000 + whatever I tipped in front of me at the end if I had not tipped. So from my perspective, tipping doesn't affect my bottom line. At worst it may take a few seconds longer to reach my goal.

And as far as what that guy at WOV has said, that tips are placed in the "losing" debit column, that is absurd. If you have tipped out a lot a diligent pit boss will add it to your winnings via checking the entire tray. If he is a lazy pit boss and the tip amount wasn't that much, it might not be accounted for. But it will never be deducted from your win!

[kewlJ]

Well, what the guy Bosox is trying to say in a roundabout manner is that if I place two grand for my bet, and fifty bucks on the side for the dealer, if I win I will get 2000 whereas if I lose I will lose 2050. But as I have explained, I am an end results player. If my goal is to win three grand or five grand or whatever the target, I will stop when I get to that goal. I will not have 3000 + whatever I tipped or 5000 + whatever I tipped in front of me at the end if I had not tipped. So from my perspective, tipping doesn't affect my bottom line. At worst it may take a few seconds longer to reach my goal.

No, what the guy Bosox is trying to say is that your tipping strategy / claims makes your already impossible claims even less likely.

[coach belly]

what do you think those tips did to the house edges percentages?

Tipping does not effect the house edge

Thanks for clearing it up...Bosox didn't understand that.

[coach belly]

Bosox is trying to say

Bosox didn't understand that tipping doesn't affect the house edge.

He is confused, and not qualified to comment on the probabilities or likelihood of anything gambling-related.