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Thread: Professional Gambler in Vegas... Think Again!

  1. #1
    https://www.legitgamblingsites.com/b...rofessionally/

    After reading this article/website I was reminded of ZenKing.
    No matter what you think of him, at least he had the balls to take the plunge.
    The articles are general but sobering when you read the statistics.
    34k a year to play FPDW if you get the right promotions and actually can use a players card.
    Which you really can't these days so you basically have to factor that game without a players card.
    They also broke down how difficult it is to be a 55% winner in the Sports Book.
    Whatever, I skimmed most of the articles but I thought it was interesting.
    At least this thread is actually gambling related compared to the constant Drama Threads.
    Not that Drama Threads are a Bad Thing.
    We all like entertainment.
    The difference with me is that I am not trying to be a character on the internet.
    I talk and act the same exact way in person as I do online.
    I'm not trying to sugarcoat this sub-culture, outer fringe walk of life.
    The Video Poker and Sports Betting articles are at the bottom of the webpage if you don't want to read all the words prior.
    The two articles are a short enough read.
    The article on Card Counting pertains to our Resident Queen.
    Long Live the Queen!
    Of course that article only breaks down the theory of the numbers.
    It doesn't factor in the problems of Real World Card Counting.
    Nor does it break down the potential upside of Teams, Hole Carding and Outright Cheating.

  2. #2
    I live on the North Shore in Long Island New York. This is the average and median household income there.

    Average Household Income $388,968.00
    Median Household Income $250,001.00


    Below is the average and median household income to live in Las Vegas.

    Average Household Income $76,483.00
    Median Household Income $54,694.00



    Makes more sense why people in Las Vegas might be able to make a living playing slot machines, low end cautious card counting, scamming free play with multiple cards, counting on comps to eat, etc. etc.

    Other than Monet who speaks of his family all the time (not sure if he mentioned any kids) most AP’s seem to never mention any family. I know what it cost to raise and educate only 2 boys fully insured for anything that could arise. The lack of family conversation indicates that most AP's on this site are single also explaining the ease to survive.

    I believe there are special AP’s able to bang those slot machines for the big bucks. Look at Darkie who claims to make at least one million dollars per year. But you have to wonder how many are actually capable of such gambling accomplishments. If there were hundreds or thousands of AP’s pulling in this type of income, I’m sure the casinos would be more concerned and do something about it like they did to good video poker options. For some reason the casinos don't seem to concerned about the leak of their incomes to AP's. I'm guessing there's no reason to.

    While I believe there are some heavy hitter AP’s, I can’t help but to think most are struggling and sweating bullets week to week. Don’t forget that link to those articles with the estimations are assumed income with the chance of total fail.
    Last edited by blackhole; 02-05-2021 at 06:38 AM.

  3. #3
    For the record I didn’t post that income information above for the sake of trying to show off. I notice many here posting cash think that confirms something special. The truth when it comes to cash and gamblers, here today gone tomorrow.

    I was really just trying to point out real life differences, not alleged fantasies.

  4. #4
    For the record...

    “Information is not Knowledge.” – Albert Einstein.

    Ha.

    Well, gee, now I wonder that mental illness is knowledge.
    Every one /everyone knows it all; yet, no thing /nothing is truly known by any one /anyone. Similarly, the suckers think that they win, but, the house always wins, unless to hand out an even worse beating.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xsa6ojQcYXQ

    Garnabby + OppsIdidItAgain + ThomasClines (or TomasHClines) + TheGrimReaper + LMR + OneHitWonder (or 1HitWonder, 1Hit1der) + Bill Yung ---> GOTTLOB1, or GOTTLOB = Praise to God!

    Blog at https://garnabby.blogspot.com/

  5. #5
    Hmm...


    Shut it down, old Albert Einstein. ---> Don't Waste It on the Blues.

    https://anagram-solver.net/shut%20it...n?partial=true


    How apt.


    Last edited by Garnabby; 02-05-2021 at 08:51 AM.
    Every one /everyone knows it all; yet, no thing /nothing is truly known by any one /anyone. Similarly, the suckers think that they win, but, the house always wins, unless to hand out an even worse beating.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xsa6ojQcYXQ

    Garnabby + OppsIdidItAgain + ThomasClines (or TomasHClines) + TheGrimReaper + LMR + OneHitWonder (or 1HitWonder, 1Hit1der) + Bill Yung ---> GOTTLOB1, or GOTTLOB = Praise to God!

    Blog at https://garnabby.blogspot.com/

  6. #6
    Originally Posted by blackhole View Post
    I live on the North Shore in Long Island New York. This is the average and median household income there.

    Average Household Income $388,968.00
    Median Household Income $250,001.00


    Below is the average and median household income to live in Las Vegas.

    Average Household Income $76,483.00
    Median Household Income $54,694.00



    Makes more sense why people in Las Vegas might be able to make a living playing slot machines, low end cautious card counting, scamming free play with multiple cards, counting on comps to eat, etc. etc.

    Other than Monet who speaks of his family all the time (not sure if he mentioned any kids) most AP’s seem to never mention any family. I know what it cost to raise and educate only 2 boys fully insured for anything that could arise. The lack of family conversation indicates that most AP's on this site are single also explaining the ease to survive.

    I believe there are special AP’s able to bang those slot machines for the big bucks. Look at Darkie who claims to make at least one million dollars per year. But you have to wonder how many are actually capable of such gambling accomplishments. If there were hundreds or thousands of AP’s pulling in this type of income, I’m sure the casinos would be more concerned and do something about it like they did to good video poker options. For some reason the casinos don't seem to concerned about the leak of their incomes to AP's. I'm guessing there's no reason to.

    While I believe there are some heavy hitter AP’s, I can’t help but to think most are struggling and sweating bullets week to week. Don’t forget that link to those articles with the estimations are assumed income with the chance of total fail.
    I have two children (biological) one stepdaughter.

    Four grandchildren.

    I even brought my daughter and grandkids to the WOV meetup. Turned it into a Vegas family vacation.

    As for Casinos being concerned about the leakage, when they see it they are concerned. I have had a number of "wars" (they try to shut me down, I try to circumvent their methods) although I usually just move on these days. Too stressful and expensive those wars.

    For the most part Casino staff are about modern convenience which means automation. No one wants to monitor thousands, tens of thousands of players card accounts. So it's possible when no one is looking (relying on the automated software that is) to sneak quite a few by.

    Until it's discovered and then the Casino goes all hell to pay

  7. #7
    Originally Posted by Darkoz View Post
    As for Casinos being concerned about the leakage, when they see it they are concerned.
    If there were only 100 AP's like you, that would be a $100,000,000.00 million dollar per year leak. Or $2,000.000.00 million dollars per week?

    Quote from internet:

    "The salaries of Casino Owners in the US range from $41,887 to $1,133,093 , with a median salary of $203,803 . The middle 57% of Casino Owners makes between $203,803 and $510,593, with the top 86% making $1,133,093."

    Are you starting to realize how ridiculous your comments are. Your saying AP'ing is more profitable then actually owning a full blown casino.

    This is why most members here don't believe in fairy tales.

  8. #8
    Originally Posted by blackhole View Post
    Originally Posted by Darkoz View Post
    As for Casinos being concerned about the leakage, when they see it they are concerned.
    If there were only 100 AP's like you, that would be a $100,000,000.00 million dollar per year leak. Or $2,000.000.00 million dollars per week?

    Quote from internet:

    "The salaries of Casino Owners in the US range from $41,887 to $1,133,093 , with a median salary of $203,803 . The middle 57% of Casino Owners makes between $203,803 and $510,593, with the top 86% making $1,133,093."

    Are you starting to realize how ridiculous your comments are. Your saying AP'ing is more profitable then actually owning a full blown casino.

    This is why most members here don't believe in fairy tales.
    Besides being real, my claims are ultimately more believable than MDawg claims of beating Baccarat every day he plays.

    But you remain strangely silent about his claims.

  9. #9
    Pretty easy to grind out 100k a year in the area I live playing poker if you are a legitimately good poker player. The hourly in areas with newb deep-stack players and being best at table is significant when compared to low level APing.

    So if poker has "opened up" in an area that is always a good thing. You get a lot of people just discovering poker. If the joints running the game don't cheat you, rake rape you, and don't try too hard to hinder game size then one can do quite well. 30+ big blinds an hour. So look for an area as described in this paragraph - move there and live comfortably. NLHE has fuck no variance. If you don't want/demand 100k a year, you can be just some meh standard grinder and still live a very middle/lower-middle class lifestyle. Vegas is the worst for poker because it runs counter to all of the above.

  10. #10
    Ok, so a couple things about the card counting section.

    It says players can get between a .5 and 1.5 edge. With current rules and situations 1.0% is about the best you can hope for long-term. The days of over 1% are pretty much gone. It takes a huge spread to get above 1.0% and that is going to mean, you can't just sit and play that game, you have to move around ALOT, even more than I do, which will bring the whole hourly rate down. It is about finding a compromise.

    100 rounds per hour. All the books and software like to use 100 rounds per hour as the standard measure. It is pretty hard to average that. I don't average 100 rounds per hour. If you take a shoe game, which most games outside Vegas are, (in Vegas it is about 50%), with 3,4,5 people playing, and an average dealer you are going to get 60ish hands if you sit there for an hour. If the game has side bets which more and more do now, it goes even lower due to extra time paying off those side bets. The one saving grace is if you can find a heads up game with a decent dealer, you can rack up 150-200 rounds per hour. That helps bring the average up, but most of your play will not be heads up, so it's averages, and it's hard to average 100 rounds per hour.

    Play all vs jumping in and out of better situations. The article also assumes play all, which means you sit at the same table and play for the hour, or many hours. Play all means that in addition to the good positive (+EV) counts that you seek, you have to sit through not only neutral counts, but some pretty negative (very -EV) counts to get there. Play all requires a much bigger spread than jumping from opportunity to opportunity. Bigger than the 1-7 ($25-$175) spread mentioned for a shoe game. And a bigger spread means you will draw more attention and get noticed and more backoffs, barrings etc.

    So do you use a bigger spread and play all, allowing for more rounds per hour, or do you use a smaller spread drawing less attention, while jumping around (out of the worse counts), which will result in fewer rounds per hour played. One way that works in your favor less attention and all works against you in rounds per hour and vice versa. You have to find some sort of compromise, based on your individual situation, like number of games available to you and how frequently you play. Obviously for me it is hit and run, move around a lot.

    70% penetration mentioned. 70% is not good for a shoe game. For me 70% is absolute bare minimum. The bottom I will accept. and I will only play that if there are some other favorable condition. Some favorable rule like S17, or maybe a heads up game or game with 1 other player allowing for more rounds per hour. 70% at a full table is just not worth it. Now 75% is average for shoe games. And I know that doesn't seem like much but it makes a huge difference in hourly rate. 80% plus is really the target.

    Let's compare. If you are playing a 6 deck game with 2 other people, the difference between 80% pen and 75% (most common) is an increase of about 30% in win rate. A $60 an hour game goes to better than $75-$80. And it works the other way as well. You drop to 70% and that $60/hour game goes to $40. Big difference in fairly small penetration levels.

    So it is all about finding the compromise positions. You look for the better games that you can beat with smaller spreads, which draw less heat and attention. But, you can't sit there and play all, as that works against, you bringing down advantage. You move around avoiding the worst -EV rounds, but that brings total rounds played down. You find the compromise position that works for you. But you can forget about 1.5-2% advantages from card counting, while sitting at one table playing all. Those days are gone.

    For me:, I play a little higher stakes and spread than mentioned, better penetration than mentioned, but fewer rounds per hour (about 80) with the hit and run style. Compromise position that allows for longevity by creating fewer situations where someone has to answer for you.
    Dan Druff: "there's no question that MDawg has been an obnoxious braggart, and has rubbed a ton of people the wrong way. There's something missing from his stories. Either they're fabricated, grossly exaggerated, or largely incomplete".

  11. #11
    The article is also written with the assumption that gross profits are net profits, which obviously they aren’t. Basically the author doesn’t know shit about reality, but also isn’t exaggerating or deceptive in his methodology.

  12. #12
    Oh, I forgot to mention the bankroll they stated. $20,000 to $50,000. $20,000 is too low, even for the small spread they mentioned. You need $40-50,000 to play at the $25 minimum tables with a decent spread. There is big variance in blackjack card counting, you must have the bankroll and mental ability to withstand those swings and variance. And that $50,000 is just the playing bankroll. Just for the blackjack variance, meaning if you have a job or some other source of income to pay you basic bills and needs.

    If you are depending on blackjack to provide that, which is what the article is about, you are going to need double, 100k, to be able to withstand the swings and taking money out of bankroll during the times you are losing. I think that was some of Zenkings problem when he first moved to Vegas. You hit a negative variance run, like 10-15 grand and then have to take money to live on top of that and suddenly your 50k bankroll is cut in half. You really need more to comfortably ride the variance wave.
    Dan Druff: "there's no question that MDawg has been an obnoxious braggart, and has rubbed a ton of people the wrong way. There's something missing from his stories. Either they're fabricated, grossly exaggerated, or largely incomplete".

  13. #13
    Originally Posted by mcap View Post
    The article is also written with the assumption that gross profits are net profits, which obviously they aren’t. Basically the author doesn’t know shit about reality, but also isn’t exaggerating or deceptive in his methodology.
    Yeah, it is just a general kind of article basically focusing on the numbers and what kind of money is possible. It doesn't read, and I don't think it is meant to read like the author is an expert.

    BUT to that extent, it clearly shows what is possible for card counters, for VP players etc, without too much difficulty. Maybe some tweaking to decrease attention and heat and allow for and increase longevity.

    And that is why I can't help wonder why the anti-APers, give the AP's on this forum such shit. I don't see anybody claiming 3-400k. The range people here are working is more than possible. Likely even. So the anti-APers giving everyone shit, it is about something else. Jealousy? bitterness? I honestly don't know. Especially from these people that tell us how wonderful they have done in life? Something doesn't add up.
    Last edited by kewlJ; 02-05-2021 at 12:22 PM.
    Dan Druff: "there's no question that MDawg has been an obnoxious braggart, and has rubbed a ton of people the wrong way. There's something missing from his stories. Either they're fabricated, grossly exaggerated, or largely incomplete".

  14. #14
    Originally Posted by Darkoz View Post
    Besides being real, my claims are ultimately more believable than MDawg claims of beating Baccarat every day he plays.

    But you remain strangely silent about his claims.
    Whenever I point out and make certain AP claims appear doubtful, (of course only when no actual proof is put forward, just alleged claims) I’m usually instantly charged and labeled an ANTI AP in the past.

    By now and anyone reading my posts it should be obvious I don’t deny AP at all. The ANTI AP LABEL lost its impact with me. So instead, the AP’s will look for anything that could help place doubts on my opinions. Even if it's out of context. More than once they started to compare my lack of comments about MDawg’s claims in hopes of placing doubts on my opinions on completely different posts involving completely different subjects.

    I’ve mentioned more than once my doubts about long term luck. From what I read MDawg’s claims only seem to go on for two years so far. I personally had some great luck hits which turned all the losses I had for a year into a profitable one more than once. Unfortunately for me there wasn’t enough of them. For his luck to be going on for two years is totally believable and I hope it never ends. Even Jacques Cousteau or whatever his name was on WOV told that story the guy who won 10 million over years of playing, or whatever those alleged actual facts he claimed took place before losing it all.

    Bringing up whatever I might think about MDawg into this conversation was just another forum tactic being used in an effort to reduce my opinions credibility with the hopes of improving their outlandish alleged claims credibility.

  15. #15
    Originally Posted by kewlJ View Post
    . And that is why I can't help wonder why the anti-APers, give the AP's on this forum such shit. I don't see anybody claiming 3-400k. The range people here are working is more than possible. Likely even. So the anti-APers giving everyone shit, it is about something else. Jealousy? bitterness? I honestly don't know. Especially from these people that tell us how wonderful they have done in life? Something doesn't add up.
    This post above coming from this moron with crossed wires is one of the best he’s ever made. Quote: "I don't see anybody claiming 3-400k." Did blackie's claims of 20K a week or 1 million a year slip by you some home?

  16. #16
    It's just such a sad pattern

    People who deny AP's can be extremely successful always express no doubt about fantastic claims of winning with no Advantage.

    But hey if they want to look foolish to the world let them

  17. #17
    Originally Posted by Darkoz View Post
    It's just such a sad pattern

    People who deny AP's can be extremely successful always express no doubt about fantastic claims of winning with no Advantage.

    But hey if they want to look foolish to the world let them
    What the fuck did that mean??

  18. #18
    Diamond MisterV's Avatar
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    It means that guys like you who believe the bullshit of non-AP's like MDawg yet disbelieve the claims of AP's are idiots, pure and simple.
    What, Me Worry?

  19. #19
    Originally Posted by MisterV View Post
    It means that guys like you who believe the bullshit of non-AP's like MDawg yet disbelieve the claims of AP's are idiots, pure and simple.
    Here is another example of another blown out of his shoes stoned fraud member.

    Complete FUCKING LIE. Just like any other TROLL. Maybe, Mr. Professor stoned V. can post some evidence confirming my believes about Mdawg.

    These idiots can't stop making asses of themselves.

    Go smoke some more cannabis. (at least your stupidity could be blamed on weed)

  20. #20
    Diamond MisterV's Avatar
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    Weed is legal out west, asshole, and not nearly as bad for us as alcohol.

    As far as justification for my post: see post #8 above.

    Darkoz notes you love to jump all over AP's but do not jump all over MDawg.

    *puff ... puff...ahhhh*
    What, Me Worry?

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