Full time APs: How do you provide Proof Of Income for rental applications?

[MisterV]

It must take equal doses of courage and desperation with just a dash of "I'm a dreamer" to move to Las Vegas with little or nothing and hope to make a living gambling professionally, without any other regular source of income or a lot of savings to tide you over.

Christ on a crutch, the obstacles, the distractions, the difficulties.

I wonder what the success rate, expressed in percentages, is for people who come there with that plan in mind?

[Ozzy]

Talk to ZenKing.
I'm sure he has it all figured out by now as he was in your situation a few years back.
Boz said he would be under the bridge by now but I think he lost that wager.

Sounds like he's still stuck at 50k roll, 5 years later. Sure he payed, his monthly expenses out of that, but still somewhat underwhelming. He's in his prime pushing 30 he should have at least 100k roll by now. That's not a big buffer by any means.

[monet]

Sounds like he's still stuck at 50k roll, 5 years later. Sure he payed, his monthly expenses out of that, but still somewhat underwhelming. He's in his prime pushing 30 he should have at least 100k roll by now. That's not a big buffer by any means.

I agree and can't argue with your post.
However, this lifestyle isn't really set up for longevity for 99.73% of players.
Most APs running around Vegas are living from play to play.
Of course that is just life or people in general.
Paycheck to Paycheck.
Best to invest in survival skills, guns and ammo and or the like IMO.
Of course that mentality isn't for everyone.

[theywontpayontuesday]

Sounds like he's still stuck at 50k roll, 5 years later. Sure he payed, his monthly expenses out of that, but still somewhat underwhelming. He's in his prime pushing 30 he should have at least 100k roll by now. That's not a big buffer by any means.

I agree and can't argue with your post.
However, this lifestyle isn't really set up for longevity for 99.73% of players.
Most APs running around Vegas are living from play to play.
Of course that is just life or people in general.
Paycheck to Paycheck.
Best to invest in survival skills, guns and ammo and or the like IMO.
Of course that mentality isn't for everyone.

Yeah seemed like I was the only one out having fun on purge night.

[AxelWolf]

In Nevada I worked comped rooms in Laughlin and Wendover. Both places I had perpetual room comp. In Vegas, Reno and Tahoe I used some room comp but mostly stayed at the weekly/monthly hotels. They were easy to move in and out of. Sometimes it was better to be in Northern Nevada and other times it was better to be in Southern Nevada. I didn't want to have an apartment in Vegas but working plays in Reno, and vice versa. You wind up paying double rent.

Nowadays places like Extended Stay America charge $1200 to $2000 a month depending on location. But you get a full kitchen, cable, internet, weekly maid service, etc. Plus there is no deposit. It's no fuss no muss when it's time to move. It's a one day move out.

I have stayed in those places when I was younger or transitioning from one place to the next. They are small, neighbors are loud and you defiantly dont want people with kids above you, cops are always there, they are filled with roaches, and they attract a significant amount of riffraff.

[AxelWolf]

Sounds like he's still stuck at 50k roll, 5 years later. Sure he payed, his monthly expenses out of that, but still somewhat underwhelming. He's in his prime pushing 30 he should have at least 100k roll by now. That's not a big buffer by any means.

The last report I knew about, he was over 100k. I think I mentioned this before, but he actually got a nice place with all the amenities and security. He spent a surprisingly decent amount furnishing and decorating it, It looks very nice.

[MisterV]

That's good to hear.

I gave the guy the business due to his smarmy, "I'm the best BJ player in the world" posts, but I am glad he is still around and doing OK.

Hell, I wouldn't want anybody to have to return to New Jersey ...

[monet]

We can always count on AxelWolf to come in here and defend ZenKing while giving us a report on his situation/life.
Thanks AW... you really are the sweetheart that Boz says you are!
With APs like you, the Casinos will go broke soon.
Congratulations on living a life full of substance, helping your fellow APs/Scamblers.
You, my friend, are not just a cog in the wheel.
Your life truly has meaning.

[kewlJ]

The last report I knew about, he was over 100k. I think I mentioned this before, but he actually got a nice place with all the amenities and security. He spent a surprisingly decent amount furnishing and decorating it, It looks very nice.

I was not aware of Zenking's BR growth. Good for him. I was just impressed that he had survived, was doing well, moved into a nice place which was a problem early on, and had supported himself for 4-5 years while maintaining the bankroll. If he has doubled his bankroll on top of that, 10 times better. A heart felt congratulations to ZenKing for living your dream, and taking the chance and fighting through risk and variance (which he find synonymous with cheating) to do so.

Just for clarification, this does NOT make him the greatest card counter ever. . And I am not saying that, meaning that I am. far from it. the greatest card counter ever, was probably some dude, none of us have ever heard of or read about. It was probably before what George W Bush called "the internets". It was probably back in the 70's, 80's maybe 90's with better blackjack conditions and rules and he plied his trade successfully without anyone having a clue.

[mcap]

Doesn’t matter how much you try to discredit him, he will always be the self proclaimed best ever.

[MaxPen]

I don't imagine anyone but Zenking can speak for his life and bankroll situation. Just saying.

[monet]

I don't imagine anyone but Zenking can speak for his life and bankroll situation. Just saying.

I could be wrong but I've known a lot of people in Vegas in the last 30 years and their bankrolls change in the blink of an eye.
Myself included.
Shit Happens and Shit Happens fast in this town.
Usually in a downward direction but that doesn't mean others haven't skyrocketed.
I've literally seen players win enough to cover 20k per year for 20 to 40 years of their life in one night.
That's publisher clearing house money.
I'm sure you've seen the same.

I probably shouldn't talk too much about this but I've been on plays that have lasted for weeks or months where I was basically reaching into the hopper.
Over Pays and other methods.
One instance I was on a machine that when you cashed out 100 dollars it left the credits on the machine.
You guys don't have to believe it but this shit happens.
It seemed to happen more regularly to me decades ago.
Not so much these days.
That's Rob Singer kind of shit and I have been on similar things like that.
I'm not saying Rob did what he said but I know that shit happens.
That's one reason I really don't get involved in these bullshit debates about what can and cannot happen.
Most of these members don't know what goofy shit happens.
They never met people with light wands or snakes that they shoved inside of coin machines.
They just want to come on here and talk about math and how honest they are.
That certainly isn't the whole story.
That's ZenKing Bullshit where I'm gonna win because I'm the best kind of stories.
kewlJ is very similar.
Honest Abe Bullshit IMO.

It wasn't long ago that a guy I knew traveled far away because of an overpay on a Keno Machine.
Things Happen.
Some of you know this but don't like to talk about it on forums.
How much can you make on an Overpay from a Machine???
More than you probably think.
But you know you got the Kings, KJs and Sox playing it straight.
Suckers!?
Perhaps but I guess they keep their souls intact.

[AxelWolf]

The last report I knew about, he was over 100k. I think I mentioned this before, but he actually got a nice place with all the amenities and security. He spent a surprisingly decent amount furnishing and decorating it, It looks very nice.

I was not aware of Zenking's BR growth. Good for him. I was just impressed that he had survived, was doing well, moved into a nice place which was a problem early on, and had supported himself for 4-5 years while maintaining the bankroll. If he has doubled his bankroll on top of that, 10 times better. A heart felt congratulations to ZenKing for living your dream, and taking the chance and fighting through risk and variance (which he find synonymous with cheating) to do so.

Just for clarification, this does NOT make him the greatest card counter ever. . And I am not saying that, meaning that I am. far from it. the greatest card counter ever, was probably some dude, none of us have ever heard of or read about. It was probably before what George W Bush called "the internets". It was probably back in the 70's, 80's maybe 90's with better blackjack conditions and rules and he plied his trade successfully without anyone having a clue.

I have no way to know for certain what his BR is at, that was the last BR report that I was aware of he could be to zero at this very moment. Obviously, ZenKing is not the best counter in the world, not even close. He's a very competitive person so I think that's just part of that competitive mentality to claim you are the best at something and try to believe that about yourself as some psychological motivation. Who knows. I have always said ZenKings worst enemy is himself.


recently I offered him a no-brainer slamdunk situation and was willing to spoon-feed him the how, when, why, and where. He declined while stating how much he was making per hour playing BJ and just wanted to do that. His offer when to a mutual friend of ours who ended up making about 7k or 8k(I forget the exact amount) in one day. He is very hard-headed and won't seem to move on until he is satisfied he has beaten the game of blackjack on his own.

Whatever the case, it's all good, he is fun to hang out with no matter what or how he is doing.

[tableplay]

They never met people with light wands or snakes that they shoved inside of coin machines.

Or a dude that would open his trenchcoat and tase machines for interesting results.
Well speaking of money from nowhere here was today's decent vulch of mine:

[Ozzy]

He's got a limited time frame to make his dough. Sure he's got potentially 20-30 years due to his age, but counting could be complete garbage within a few years. If he's that pig headed(act shocked!) and is unwilling to take advice from a mentor like AlexWolf, he might have limited options in the near future. He's still young he's got that going for him, but if he's anywhere near as good as he says, he's got to sock away some bread in the pantry, for a safety net. You don't want to be in your 40s in the near future with no pot to piss in.

[redietz]

In Nevada I worked comped rooms in Laughlin and Wendover. Both places I had perpetual room comp. In Vegas, Reno and Tahoe I used some room comp but mostly stayed at the weekly/monthly hotels. They were easy to move in and out of. Sometimes it was better to be in Northern Nevada and other times it was better to be in Southern Nevada. I didn't want to have an apartment in Vegas but working plays in Reno, and vice versa. You wind up paying double rent.

Nowadays places like Extended Stay America charge $1200 to $2000 a month depending on location. But you get a full kitchen, cable, internet, weekly maid service, etc. Plus there is no deposit. It's no fuss no muss when it's time to move. It's a one day move out.

I have stayed in the Extended Stay on Valley View across from the Rio a couple of times in the last six or seven years. It seemed fine -- same layout as a Budget Suites type room, but cleaner and with a better clientele.

Having said that, I do joke about the fact that a dude stayed there with a supply of ricin awhile back and intended to poison Caesars Palace by coming up through the tunnels or something. I ask for "The Ricin Room."

Seriously, I liked the place. It was more than good enough for me. I would think quite a few poker players camp there during the WSOP.

[monet]

Nice Hit tableplay!
I could learn from you and MC about how to crush these vision machines.

[tableplay]

Nice Hit tableplay!
I could learn from you and MC about how to crush these vision machines.

PM me anytime if you feel comfortable doing so.

[AxelWolf]

He's got a limited time frame to make his dough. Sure he's got potentially 20-30 years due to his age, but counting could be complete garbage within a few years. If he's that pig headed(act shocked!) and is unwilling to take advice from a mentor like AlexWolf, he might have limited options in the near future. He's still young he's got that going for him, but if he's anywhere near as good as he says, he's got to sock away some bread in the pantry, for a safety net. You don't want to be in your 40s in the near future with no pot to piss in.

I have been hearing card counting and AP in general was dying/dead since 2000, and yet here we are. No doubt things change, Some things die out, but some things get better, but as long as you change and adapt you should not have a problem. I remember IGT and other game makers were swearing off bonus banking, player funded, variable state, or whatever you want to call them, but now look at what we have... it seems like it's better than ever. Sure there is more competition nowadays, but there's also extra added stuff we didn't really have back in the day. And the number of casinos we have access to nowadays is far greater than what we had back then. If you knew what you were doing, motivated, and loved to travel you would make a killing nowadays.




ZenKing doesn't seem big on change, but if push comes to shove, he will have to change, like it or not.

[redietz]

It must take equal doses of courage and desperation with just a dash of "I'm a dreamer" to move to Las Vegas with little or nothing and hope to make a living gambling professionally, without any other regular source of income or a lot of savings to tide you over.

Christ on a crutch, the obstacles, the distractions, the difficulties.

I wonder what the success rate, expressed in percentages, is for people who come there with that plan in mind?

MisterV, here are the demographic realities of the United States circa 2021. This is not Leave It to Beaver's USA.

When you realize where most Americans wind up, the hardships of trying AP'ing may not seem so very hard. The "success rates" for average Americans may not be what you perceive them to be, regardless of what they are doing.

The majority (more than 70%) of Americans die in debt. The average debt of those in debt is more than 60K. Thus, the "average American" in 2021 dies with a negative ledger sheet, and a substantial one. The reasons are many, but some of the more obvious ones are that when Country A picks up the tab for medical bills and education and Country B does not, Country B winds up with individuals shouldering massive debts from which they never escape.

If, on average, you're going to wind up in debt at the end of it all, why not do what you prefer to do along the way? The worst you can do is "fail," which is, economically speaking, what the majority of Americans wind up doing anyway.