Originally Posted by mickeycrimm View Post
I always take it with a grain of salt when someone says they "nerfed" a game, whatever that means. All they can do is change the game to a lower or higher payback. IGT usually has about 6 different paybacks for a game from 85% to as high as 97%.

There's one game where I can always tell the RTP by counting down the free games meters. That's Progressive Free Games. Pics below.

The chart below the game shows the different configurations according to the RTP. Notice on the 95% version the countdowns are 38/80/450. That means the red number you see at 5 increments every 38 spins, green every 80 spins, blue every 450 spins. They all max at 15.

I know two casinos where the 95% game was installed and the payback has remained the same for 3 years. They haven't been "nerfed."

If you notice, every payback in the chart has a different countdown for the red free games. That makes it easy to determine which payback you are dealing with in a particular casino.

I know 3 locations with 93% payback. The payback hasn't been altered since they were installed about 3 years ago.

I know a dozen locations with the 91% game and the payback hasn't changed since they were installed about 3 years ago.

The 95% game is high denom, from $4 to $10. The 93% and 91%'ers low denom, usually $2 max bet.

The house already has a big edge on these games. There is really no reason to "nerf" a game.

I use the Progressive Free Games as a barometer of the payback range in a casino.

The CZR properties always have the lowest payback for this game, 85%. They are unplayable.
Mickey,

Have you ever seen it where Progressive Free Games is set to 85%, but they mix up the RTP from the other games for some reason? Or, is it pretty safe to say that if the house has this game at 85%, they probably have all games set at low paybacks?

I ask because I have been doing well at this one place for a while and assumed they didn't have the games totally cranked down. Then I counted down Progressive Free Games and it was the 110 85% game! I was very surprised. This is a native American casino in a somewhat competitive market too, not CZR.

Also, does actually hitting the red count, or do you only count a move from 5 to 6 after triggering the red to determine RTP. I noticed the red bonus round triggered way more than every 110 spins, but the actual move from 5 to 6 was consistent at around 110. In fact, I never saw it get to 7. It only went to 6 twice. It was a max bet, so maybe it is set to have more red bonuses at that level.