Legal Opinion Request for MrV --

[MisterV]

It's funny to read all the defamatory shit people say about each other on some internet forums; much is actionable and would warrant a defamation lawsuit but few ever bother, given the hideous cost and lack of deep pockets to pay any judgment.

But there are exceptions.

A Nevada jury awarded over 35 million after a seven day trial; the plaintiff was wealthy and seemingly spared no expense, hiring "the best and the brightest."

see: https://www.mitchell-attorneys.com/internet-defamation

Ben Franklin's advice rings true more than ever: “He that would live in peace & at ease, Must not speak all he knows or judge all he sees.”

[Rob.Singer]

It's funny to read all the defamatory shit people say about each other on some internet forums; much is actionable and would warrant a defamation lawsuit but few ever bother, given the hideous cost and lack of deep pockets to pay any judgment.

But there are exceptions.

A Nevada jury awarded over 35 million after a seven day trial; the plaintiff was wealthy and seemingly spared no expense, hiring "the best and the brightest."

see: https://www.mitchell-attorneys.com/internet-defamation

Ben Franklin's advice rings true more than ever: “He that would live in peace & at ease, Must not speak all he knows or judge all he sees.”

That's an interesting read. But it is a far cry from all the nonsense that goes on in these gaming forums. I have yet to read where anyone wrote they were going to intentionally make efforts to "inflict all kinds of (defamation) pain" on someone else. That's getting serious, and nothing here is anything like that. And NO ONE is "judged" more negatively & wrongfully than me--which doesn't bother me in the least because I know it's either all in jest or it's completely misguided, and I expect as well as deserve much of it. It's called entertainment. The complaint by red about the solicitations I received don't even fit this. I simply reported them. If he believes someone wrongfully dropped his name then it would serve him better to be upset at whomever he knows that might do that. And if he swears he had nothing to do with it then I believe him. I've moved on from it long ago.

[accountinquestion]

I am no attorney but when everyone is using a fake name I'm not sure how slander even works.

I slandered the name he chose on an internet forum but few even knew who he was until he sued me? Something like that?

[MaxPen]

I am no attorney but when everyone is using a fake name I'm not sure how slander even works.

I slandered the name he chose on an internet forum but few even knew who he was until he sued me? Something like that?

It's all just more clown world bullshit. Just another story to add in the book as the end quickly approaches.

[regnis]

It's funny to read all the defamatory shit people say about each other on some internet forums; much is actionable and would warrant a defamation lawsuit but few ever bother, given the hideous cost and lack of deep pockets to pay any judgment.

But there are exceptions.

A Nevada jury awarded over 35 million after a seven day trial; the plaintiff was wealthy and seemingly spared no expense, hiring "the best and the brightest."

see: https://www.mitchell-attorneys.com/internet-defamation

Ben Franklin's advice rings true more than ever: “He that would live in peace & at ease, Must not speak all he knows or judge all he sees.”

That's an interesting read. But it is a far cry from all the nonsense that goes on in these gaming forums. I have yet to read where anyone wrote they were going to intentionally make efforts to "inflict all kinds of (defamation) pain" on someone else. That's getting serious, and nothing here is anything like that. And NO ONE is "judged" more negatively & wrongfully than me--which doesn't bother me in the least because I know it's either all in jest or it's completely misguided, and I expect as well as deserve much of it. It's called entertainment. The complaint by red about the solicitations I received don't even fit this. I simply reported them. If he believes someone wrongfully dropped his name then it would serve him better to be upset at whomever he knows that might do that. And if he swears he had nothing to do with it then I believe him. I've moved on from it long ago.

Many years ago I was before a judge who was clearly either a complete idiot, or more likely being paid off. I became so infuriated with him that in court and on the record, I accused him of being "bought" . I was of course held in contempt and jailed for a few hours. This is the main reason I stopped going to court and left that to cooler heads.
The defamation suit followed a bit later and I was more than a little concerned as I knew he was crooked but I had no actual proof. Luckily, he was indicted shortly thereafter, with a lot of other Chicago judges, before I had to expend a lot of money on a defense. I did learn to keep my mouth shut and control my temper.

[MisterV]

It's all just more clown world bullshit. Just another story to add in the book as the end quickly approaches.

Not always: sometimes it gets real on these forums.

A couple decades ago (!) I read about and then followed a defamation lawsuit filed by a father and daughter who lived in Cherry Hill NJ against an internet troll who lived I believe in California.

Their dispute was the typical flaming and insults we see here on occasion, but bitter and pointed.

Anyway, they sued, it went on for years.

The suit was in Camden County, NJ.

link: https://law.justia.com/cases/new-jer...14-05-opn.html

[kewlJ]

I am no attorney but when everyone is using a fake name I'm not sure how slander even works.

I slandered the name he chose on an internet forum but few even knew who he was until he sued me? Something like that?

You have said something along these lines a few times and it surprises me. I am not the least bit surprised someone like Singer thinks this because he isn't an AP, but you are.

People on these forums using so called anonymous names are not anonymous. Advantage players are a community. Most know one another and who different people using different names really are. They might have played with them in the past. Showed up to work the same advantage play (in competition) ect. Particularly with players that live and play Las Vegas including those that visit regularly. Some even socialize together. As everyone knows, I don't do a lot of that, but the idea that advantage players are anonymous because we don't use real names to try to be anonymous to the casino industry is just not factual.

I have been a solo player for most of my career but in the last year or so, I have teamed up with another AP that runs a team for some small plays. And I have been told flat out he is reluctant to get too involved with me because of my participation on forums like this and what it has lead to in my case doxxing, outing me and damaging my career. he doesn't want to put anyone else in danger by associating to much with me, now. There are some AP's in this town, that occasionally still post here (used to more frequently) that can verify what I am saying.

So don't give me this crap about everyone is anonymous and can't be harmed or have their reputation harmed.....which can cost real money!

[monet]

So don't give me this crap about everyone is anonymous and can't be harmed or have their reputation harmed.....which can cost real money!

I welcome anyone to say hello to me in the Casino, knock on my door or stalk my property.
Mi Casa Su Casa!

[MaxPen]

So don't give me this crap about everyone is anonymous and can't be harmed or have their reputation harmed.....which can cost real money!

I welcome anyone to say hello to me in the Casino, knock on my door or stalk my property.
Mi Casa Su Casa!

Looking to put that perimeter security plan to the test.

[mcap]

Red has got to put a stop to this bashing.

[Ozzy]

So don't give me this crap about everyone is anonymous and can't be harmed or have their reputation harmed.....which can cost real money!

I welcome anyone to say hello to me in the Casino, knock on my door or stalk my property.
Mi Casa Su Casa!

I'm sure I could recognize you at the casino from you're target shooting videos. Not quite as easy as Druff, Rob, Mickey, Alan, Comrade Dietz or MrV

[monet]

Looking to put that perimeter security plan to the test.

I'm a people person.

[monet]

I'm sure I could recognize you at the casino from you're target shooting videos. Not quite as easy as Druff, Rob, Mickey, Alan, Comrade Dietz or MrV

I ain't hidin'
Get Some!

[accountinquestion]

I am no attorney but when everyone is using a fake name I'm not sure how slander even works.

I slandered the name he chose on an internet forum but few even knew who he was until he sued me? Something like that?

It's all just more clown world bullshit. Just another story to add in the book as the end quickly approaches.

RIP

[accountinquestion]

I am no attorney but when everyone is using a fake name I'm not sure how slander even works.

I slandered the name he chose on an internet forum but few even knew who he was until he sued me? Something like that?

You have said something along these lines a few times and it surprises me. I am not the least bit surprised someone like Singer thinks this because he isn't an AP, but you are.

People on these forums using so called anonymous names are not anonymous. Advantage players are a community. Most know one another and who different people using different names really are. They might have played with them in the past. Showed up to work the same advantage play (in competition) ect. Particularly with players that live and play Las Vegas including those that visit regularly. Some even socialize together. As everyone knows, I don't do a lot of that, but the idea that advantage players are anonymous because we don't use real names to try to be anonymous to the casino industry is just not factual.

I have been a solo player for most of my career but in the last year or so, I have teamed up with another AP that runs a team for some small plays. And I have been told flat out he is reluctant to get too involved with me because of my participation on forums like this and what it has lead to in my case doxxing, outing me and damaging my career. he doesn't want to put anyone else in danger by associating to much with me, now. There are some AP's in this town, that occasionally still post here (used to more frequently) that can verify what I am saying.

So don't give me this crap about everyone is anonymous and can't be harmed or have their reputation harmed.....which can cost real money!

I'm not so sure. I have no clue who you are. I have no clue who 99% on this forum are. How can they be slandered? Not that you don't have a valid point here, but I'm not sure it pertains to case law etc.

[MisterV]

If some scoundrel, e.g. douchedawg doxes an AP such as KJ such that KJ's identity is made known to the casinos he counts cards at that is an actionable tort: intentional interference with an economic expectancy.

[kewlJ]

If some scoundrel, e.g. douchedawg doxes an AP such as KJ such that KJ's identity is made known to the casinos he counts cards at that is an actionable tort: intentional interference with an economic expectancy.

MrV, a while back I was having a conversation with attorney Bob N, about shufflemachines that had the ability to clump cards. I don't want to get into that topic of can they or can't they, but during the discussion, I was explaining how such a shuffle would give the house a much bigger (and illegal) advantage.

Bob's response was that while everything I said may be true, the hard part was for him to convince a jury of people or even a judge that may not understand or even have much interest in the math or gambling.

In other words it isnt enough to be right but you have to convince judge and/or jury that you are right.

In the statement you just made about doxxong me, costing me financially and the damages of that, I think many of us in the AP and gambling world, understand that but I wonder how successful any attorney would be convincing non gambling people on a jury of that.

[kewlJ]

I am using myself and the statement MrV made as an example, but what I am asking is, isn't the hard part proving that ANYONE was financially harmed?

[MisterV]

The issue of damages can certainly be problematical.

So yes, Bob is quite correct in pointing out how that issue can be a tough one to explain and to prove.

In such a case it is wise to hire an expert to testify in support of the damage claim.

Most cases take a couple years to get to trial, and that would give an economics professor or a CPA time to review your income / tax records pre and post incident, and if it went down considerably that would be evident.

Projecting loss of future earnings is a bit tougher; again an expert is needed to establish this, and experts cost a lot of money.

Litigation is a game best played by the wealthy.

[regnis]

I don''t have time to look for the case, but I recall Elon Musk winning a case that he should have lost where he was alleged to have defamed someone. One of the critical points in the case was that "internet speech" is different in that it is casual and meant to be somewhat flippant. I don't agree with the ruling but I do recall that there was concern as to what that case would do to the whole slander/libel game.