Discussing Rob Singers Systems

[arcimede$]

I pretty much agree with you, Arc, except for this: "winning players don't often suffer from the problems that can affect players who lose consistently." Winning players can also be addicts. Addiction is not measured by wins or losses.

Alan, did you even read my entire comment? I said "APers can be addicted just like anyone else." My point was when you are winning the actual gambling problems are likely to be less severe. You're not going to steal, you're not going to fall into serious debt, etc. While some less severe problems may come up it is different than someone losing lots of money.

[Alan Mendelson]

Alan, did you even read my entire comment? I said "APers can be addicted just like anyone else." My point was when you are winning the actual gambling problems are likely to be less severe. You're not going to steal, you're not going to fall into serious debt, etc. While some less severe problems may come up it is different than someone losing lots of money.

Yes, that reminds me of this line: I only have a gambling problem when I lose.

[arcimede$]

Yes, that reminds me of this line: I only have a gambling problem when I lose.

There's a lot of truth in that quote. Keep in mind there is a big difference between addiction and having gambling problems.

I knew a few APers that openly admitted they were addicted. However, they seemed perfectly content with the situation. How many addicted, consistent losers do you see admitting their addiction?

[Alan Mendelson]

I guess you could say I am addicted to my TV career. I can't imagine doing anything else, nor would I want to. And I am probably more addicted to being a TV news reporter and for the last 7 years that I have been doing Infomercials I have been going through "TV reporter withdrawal."

[Count Room]

Yes, that reminds me of this line: I only have a gambling problem when I lose.

Yes, I came very close to reminding you of this joke, Alan. You mentioned it before on the forums. If winning is still a part of addiction, then does this mean the casinos themselves (and their shareholders) are the largest addicts of all since they rake in billion$ from players?

In a similar vein, some people have seriously said that states are increasingly addicted to gambling revenues (Gov. Rendell in that "60 Minutes" clip is an example).

[Alan Mendelson]

Yes, Count Room, and I am addicted to my paycheck.

[Dan Druff]

Advantage players can be addicts, and it can actually be damaging.

This is because advantage players often have a very small advantage, and it requires a lot of play (often perfect) for this advantage to show.

So you could be an advantage player, run into bad luck at the beginning, and spend untold hours (and money) chasing that loss in order to get back to "expectation".

And even if you do catch up and finally get back positive, was it worth all of the time, stress, and effort you put in?

I also know advantage players who are addicted to the comps. So they put in crazy hours and effort into their play, just to squeeze out their edge through comped meals, hotel rooms, and freeplay.

Being an advantage playing addict typically isn't as damaging, unless you are playing beyond your bankroll, because you typically won't lose as much (if at all).

[Dan Druff]

Oh, and Rob Singer is a fraud.

[Count Room]

Oh, and Rob Singer is a fraud.

Get ready, Dan. You're in for a forum adventure. The Mendelson patrol may be coming along shortly with a stern warning about libel & defamation. Take cover.

[Alan Mendelson]

Saying someone is a fraud differs from saying someone committed fraud. And in the context of the discussion about the tax laws I think the use of the word can stand. But generally no one should be accused of a crime without proof. In particular I don't like comments such as con artist or con man. Being a fraud could refer to outlandish claims.

[Count Room]

Saying someone is a fraud differs from saying someone committed fraud. And in the context of the discussion about the tax laws I think the use of the word can stand. But generally no one should be accused of a crime without proof. In particular I don't like comments such as con artist or con man. Being a fraud could refer to outlandish claims.

OK, I am totally neutral and I'll simply say I am in a learning mode here. It would be good to know why Dan says Singer is a fraud. Something convinced him. What was it?

[Dan Druff]

Saying someone is a fraud differs from saying someone committed fraud. And in the context of the discussion about the tax laws I think the use of the word can stand. But generally no one should be accused of a crime without proof. In particular I don't like comments such as con artist or con man. Being a fraud could refer to outlandish claims.

Exactly.

I am not saying Rob Singer has committed any crimes. I am saying that his claims about himself are highly unlikely to be true.

I don't believe that he is a high roller, and clearly his "systems" show a poor understanding of mathematics, and there is no way this guy wins if he plays for any reasonable amount of time.

In general I don't like internet phonies, but they are especially unpalatable when they reek of condescension based upon their made-up status in life.

Back in the '90s, I used to frequent a certain chat room, and worked a job making about $70k/year.

A mysterious regular in the chat room pretended to be a multi-millionaire stock trader and real estate whiz, and constantly mocked me (and others) for being working stiffs and not as successful as they were.

When the truth finally came out, it turned out that the guy was unemployed, broke, and living in his elderly mother's back house.

[arcimede$]

When the truth finally came out, it turned out that the guy was unemployed, broke, and living in his elderly mother's back house.

Pretty close to Singer. He lived in a small apartment being supported by his wife. Now he lives in a trailer. I prefer the word phoney but fraud is also quite accurate.

[Rob.Singer]

Dan, everyone's entitled to their anonymous opinions of anyone else's claims. I have no doubt from reading what he writes, that Dancer is a near-total fraud, and his divorce solidified that belief. With arci, he likes to continue on with his apt. claim about me, yet why is it he won't look for or post info on my homes that I sold in Phx. & Kona? Because it hurts. Same with the almost $600k RV he saw a picture of but rejects. It hurts. Why? Because of his Singer-hating agenda. He knows my wife and I thoroughly enjoy retirement that would have happened with or without my video poker success, but the fact that he's stuck in a going nowhere life because of a sick wife that ties him down, and it's all due to his forcing her into endless casino play when she could have long-postponed her suffering by living a much healthier lifestyle, he despises and envies me. Now he suffers, and I tingle over it.

As far as you're concerned, are you of the conspiracy theory mentality about me also? I came onto the scene in 1999. Are you saying that Gaming Today published false pics of my many, many $20k thru $100k jackpots just to make it appear as if they had a "hi-roller" as a columnist for ALMOST EIGHT YEARS?? And how'd I pull the wool over my BOOK publisher's eyes....twice? What about my appearance on ESPN and the Travel Channel? And all those radio shows? Is it possible you're saying I've completely outsmarted all these people and am still doing it with "fake" $1 thru $10 vp jackpot pictures on this forum to this day?

You know, that's the truth behind what REALLY gets under arci's skin about me. He either has to face that I'm a great & successful vp player--likely the best ever--or that I'm so much smarter than him that I've been able to figure out how to make all the people he sees as inferior, to seem stupid when he cannot, OR that his claim of being a "tested genius" is making him constantly think twice about it since he's heard of me.

So Dandy, understanding that I have as many or more degrees with math and statistics backgrounds than both arci and his idol Dancer, can you please expand on first, what you're reasoning is in believing I played or still do play at "low" levels, and please explain where I have not utilized mathematics in my overall strategies and play. And please try to do so before arci comes apart at the seams again with more hate, lies, and envy

[redietz]

I need to get some popcorn for whatever comes next.

I know I'm in the minority here, and it's because I don't buy into the mores of the internet, but people maintaining anonymity really shouldn't call non-anonymous people "frauds." Just man up and go toe-to-toe, as people do in academic journals.

Anyway, I have my popcorn, so let's get the show on the road....

[regnis]

Arsenic may be a better option than popcorn for some of this stuff Red.

[Count Room]

I still think having Alan take a camera crew to Rob's place (and Arci's place) to open up IRS envelopes and to review copies of past years' income tax returns would settle things once and for all. This was suggested a long time ago on the forums but it went nowhere. Maybe it's now even more appropriate given all the tax discussion these past few days?

[Rob.Singer]

Count, the tax returns won't do it because all arci would do is peel down another layer of the envy onion and claim how I went back and created an alternate set of returns that were never filed. And if Alan were to visit the arci's he better not look anything like Brutus, he'd have to wear a protective mask, and he'd have to prepare for a meal of poi, oatmeal, KFC smashed potatoes, and leftover bottles of Gablingers. It would not be a pretty site.

[arcimede$]

A person can actually request copies of their tax returns from the IRS. Rob and I could submit the requests and have them sent to a PO box that only Alan could access. Alan would need to sign a non-disclosure agreement for any information not related to gambling and we would have the answer. His cameras could zero in on opening the envelopes and checking the numbers.

Alan would also know the details of Singer's claimed deductions. wink, wink.

I'm game. Anyone want to bet on Singer's response?

[Alan Mendelson]

A person can actually request copies of their tax returns from the IRS. Rob and I could submit the requests and have them sent to a PO box that only Alan could access. Alan would need to sign a non-disclosure agreement for any information not related to gambling and we would have the answer. His cameras could zero in on opening the envelopes and checking the numbers.

Alan would also know the details of Singer's claimed deductions. wink, wink.

I'm game. Anyone want to bet on Singer's response?

Arc is correct about this. You can order past copies of tax returns direct from the IRS and they could be mailed directly to me. And yes, I could videotape the entire process and using various editing features I can safely block all personal info from the video which I could post directly to YouTube for the whole world to see and put it here. While I am not interested in the "amounts" of Rob's deductions for "groceries" I would certainly like to see the category on the tax return that it is listed under.

I wonder if Rob really put his groceries under "entertainment" and presented a log instead of actual receipts. And while he told the IRS it was dining to entertain a client, it was really his clever way of disguising his grocery bill? I suggest this because I cannot possibly imagine an IRS auditor (as Rob told us above) accepted "groceries" and eating at home as an entertainment/business expense. Can someone please help me out here?