https://www.independent.com/2022/07/...t-the-casinos/
Eliot, I have a few questions from the article if you would care to engage.
https://www.independent.com/2022/07/...t-the-casinos/
Eliot, I have a few questions from the article if you would care to engage.
Last edited by kewlJ; 07-18-2022 at 10:53 AM.
Dan Druff: "there's no question that MDawg has been an obnoxious braggart, and has rubbed a ton of people the wrong way. There's something missing from his stories. Either they're fabricated, grossly exaggerated, or largely incomplete".
Jacobson is a raving woke ass libtard lunatic. California snowflake. I had to ban him on Twitter to get that shit out of my feed.
Last edited by mickeycrimm; 07-18-2022 at 11:35 PM.
Challenge to redietz. We bet every NFL regular season game. You make the picks. If you lay the fav I get 2 extra points. If you take the dog I get a 2 point discount. Easy pickings for you.
I’m definitely not a fan of Elliots politics but I am a fan of his work...
Below is a story every AP can appreciate. Its the story about when Elliot published his count to beat the Baccarat Dragon 7 side bet. It’s a good story, he explains how the CEO of DEQ told him he had 140 messages from angry table games directors from all over the world he had to call back. Also rumored that DEQ’s largest shareholder dumped half of the stock they owned.
Well, I do admire Jacobson's math work on gambling. To bad he's a flaming liberal.Originally Posted by PositiveVariance
Challenge to redietz. We bet every NFL regular season game. You make the picks. If you lay the fav I get 2 extra points. If you take the dog I get a 2 point discount. Easy pickings for you.
Where does he post his politics? I guess maybe I've seen some of it but mostly he just talks about climate change. I had no clue about the guy outside of name recognition until I came across him on twitter.
If you believed his math was good on gaming (when very very few gamblers could even calculate that stuff) then I would suggest to not quickly discard his climate math. These aren't like opinions on societal issues like previous things.
One of the biggest reasons that effective change will never happen within a reasonable timeframe is because so many people on the right see this as a political issue. No, it is going to kill your progeny too dumb mother fucker! Whether directly or indirectly. Only way this doesn't happen is nukes/plague get to us first.
If you guys haven't noticed, we've broke records all across the globe this summer. I'm assuming most of you APs can extrapolate from these things....,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Through the years I have been pretty hard on Eliot. I used the label "traitor" often. That came about for me because I heard from what has always been a very reliable source, an AP acquaintance, that when Eliot went to the dark side, he provided names and information on a number of top AP's that he knew or was acquaintances of. Eliot denies this occurred and really, looking objectively, I see no evidence that it did. I have not seen one single AP that knew or was acquaintances of Eliots claim they had any trouble as far as backoffs that could be attributed to that. I have to assume that if the accusations against Eliot were true a number of top AP's would have all of the sudden been unable to play. So I have no choice but to dismiss that accusation as hyperbole because one from "our" side went over to the dark side.
Now post Eliot's AP career, things got weird. As the article alludes to, he sort of worked both sides, publishing his book that taught AP's how to beat some of the games, but then went running to the casinos to do private, casino personnel only seminars of how to stop AP's and protect the games against those very AP's that his book helped teach to beat the games. And it looks like that may continue today even in his "retirement" as the article mentions a recent casino seminar this past spring.
Dan Druff: "there's no question that MDawg has been an obnoxious braggart, and has rubbed a ton of people the wrong way. There's something missing from his stories. Either they're fabricated, grossly exaggerated, or largely incomplete".
Trust me I 100% wish the guy was totally wrong but why bullshit myself. I don't have kids to worry about.Originally Posted by kewlJThrough the years I have been pretty hard on Eliot. I used the label "traitor" often. That came about for me because I heard from what has always been a very reliable source, an AP acquaintance, that when Eliot went to the dark side, he provided names and information on a number of top AP's that he knew or was acquaintances of. Eliot denies this occurred and really, looking objectively, I see no evidence that it did. I have not seen one single AP that knew or was acquaintances of Eliots claim they had any trouble as far as backoffs that could be attributed to that. I have to assume that if the accusations against Eliot were true a number of top AP's would have all of the sudden been unable to play. So I have no choice but to dismiss that accusation as hyperbole because one from "our" side went over to the dark side.
Now post Eliot's AP career, things got weird. As the article alludes to, he sort of worked both sides, publishing his book that taught AP's how to beat some of the games, but then went running to the casinos to do private, casino personnel only seminars of how to stop AP's and protect the games against those very AP's that his book helped teach to beat the games. And it looks like that may continue today even in his "retirement" as the article mentions a recent casino seminar this past spring.
His consulting did stop a few very high level teams. Games that most APs don’t understand how to beat or Just maybe never had the time or desire to learn. The information he shared about the One2Six was particularly damaging. Just another scum bag IMOOriginally Posted by kewlJThrough the years I have been pretty hard on Eliot. I used the label "traitor" often. That came about for me because I heard from what has always been a very reliable source, an AP acquaintance, that when Eliot went to the dark side, he provided names and information on a number of top AP's that he knew or was acquaintances of. Eliot denies this occurred and really, looking objectively, I see no evidence that it did. I have not seen one single AP that knew or was acquaintances of Eliots claim they had any trouble as far as backoffs that could be attributed to that. I have to assume that if the accusations against Eliot were true a number of top AP's would have all of the sudden been unable to play. So I have no choice but to dismiss that accusation as hyperbole because one from "our" side went over to the dark side.
Now post Eliot's AP career, things got weird. As the article alludes to, he sort of worked both sides, publishing his book that taught AP's how to beat some of the games, but then went running to the casinos to do private, casino personnel only seminars of how to stop AP's and protect the games against those very AP's that his book helped teach to beat the games. And it looks like that may continue today even in his "retirement" as the article mentions a recent casino seminar this past spring.
I think With Elliot he’s not for “one side or the other” but rather enjoys using his skill set. It’s hard to explain, as I don’t believe he does it to “show off” - rather he gets satisfaction from displaying it.
If a casino offered him 20k today to come in and tell them where their leaks are, no doubt he would do it.
If an AP told him he has a potential play that would beat the breaks off of a casino that Elliot has previously consulted for and he needed Elliot to go over “the numbers” for a substantial fee, I think Elliot would do it.
As you guys know, Elliot was Phil Ivey’s expert witness in one of his edge sorting cases. There is not a doubt in my mind if Elliot was asked by the Plaintiff, instead of the defense to be the expert witness - No doubt he would do it. Just like any good attorney can make an argument for either side.
From what I understand Elliots AP career came to an end because he couldn’t stomach the variance. This is a reason many can’t be AP’s.
I believe if there was an AP opportunity today with a huge edge with very little variance, I think he would play it, if allowed in the casino.
Ultimately, I think he goes where the “work” is, but not so much for the money. He is not committed to “either side.”
Last edited by PositiveVariance; 07-19-2022 at 12:18 PM.
Many AP's, myself included, develop an "Us vs Them" mentally with the casino industry. And we feel particularly insulted and agitated when one from "our side" crosses over to the dark side.
There is a history of this, including people like Wong and Shackleford doing work for the dark side dating as far back as Lawrence Revere in the 70's. Probably further back than that, but that is where my knowledge begins. People like Wong and Shackleford have managed to maintain some sort of respect or acceptance in the AP community despite working with the other side. Someone like Eliot, who did so much longer, and pretty much as a career, the resentment runs deeper.
I have communicated with Eliot privately on occasion over the past year or so, and find him to be a decent and likeable guy. I don't think he views it like some of the AP's do. Like PostiveVarianve just stated, I think for Eliot, it is just about the math and using his math abilities and expertise to make a living.
Dan Druff: "there's no question that MDawg has been an obnoxious braggart, and has rubbed a ton of people the wrong way. There's something missing from his stories. Either they're fabricated, grossly exaggerated, or largely incomplete".
Originally Posted by PositiveVariance
Variance the Great equalizer
Like I’ve said before many very successful APs come to a point in their life that the need more. The work of an AP is long, lonely at times and without meaning for many. Today these guys go on to teach others for a fee. Back in the day they may go work for the casino. It’s really a personal journey of discovery for them. Once you have a certain amount of money your work needs to have some type of meaning. I always try to encourage guys I know who have had this feeling to open a small business totally unrelated to gambling. Opening a business is something that requires maximum effort and focus. There’s a real sense of accomplishment if things work out and you are creating opportunities and jobs for people.
My problem with former APs who decide to work with casinos is they often are very narcissistic. The have little regard for all the APs they will harm by helping the casinos plug leaks. It’s mostly about them what they know, and how they can build their personal brand. Helping the most predatory industry in the world is not noble work.
Many people don’t like me because of my burn it down approach to plays. I often will hold off for a extended period of time but make no mistake I’m out to inflict maximum losses on these shops. These places need to be beat. It’s also how I personally find meaning in my work. But I would never work for a casino. Not for any amount of money
I am not sure why I was thinking there were 2 “L’s” in Eliot, not going to go back and correct them all, my apologies to Eliot if he reads this...
Even though professors don’t earn Much money teaching for their skill level, the best benefit is being able to retire in your 50’s, often times earning just as much from your pension, as you did teaching. At that point I think it would be fun to buy a nice RV traveling the country beating casinos several months out of the year.
Since Eliot's father invented the modern answering machine and appeared to have a successful career, I’m sure someone was handed down to him.
Last edited by PositiveVariance; 07-19-2022 at 12:55 PM.
My guess is the dude is autistic and doesn't empathize with APs. So he burned the livelihoods of many people. It also suggests why he cares about climate change. Most people don't empathize in a systemic way. It is all anecdotal and interpersonal bullshit.
Anyway, I'm not saying you guys don't deserve to throw his ass in the gutter for the stuff he did.
I came here to post this...
Link talking about server infrastructure being shutdown because inadequate cooling could cause damage.
Yea, nothing to see here... lol so awful.
I am retired. I am not sure why that doesn't register with some folks here. Fully retired since 2017. Not a penny of income (other than book royalties). I have refused income making opportunities repeatedly, some for substantial amounts. I state quite clearly on my website that if I am contacted by an AP for any reason for a project and I find the project interesting, I will do the work (for free) and post the results. There has only been one case where the AP refused my offer. Twice I've worked for casino corporations on projects, under the condition that they make a donation to the non-profit of my choice in absence of a fee. I continue to output stuff, though clearly at my own pace these days. Willy invited me to present next year at the World Game Protection Conference and it just sounded fun so I accepted. I am not doing it in any professional capacity. I don't take sides. I get emails from APs and casino folks all the time. I answer every email, and do my best to be polite, not always succeeding. As for the one-2-six, I am not sure what some of you think I taught about that, but the glitch that folks exploited for many years was already well-known by the time I presented it in my seminars
As for my politics, I am a-political. My beliefs include some that could be classified as liberal, some conservative, and most anarchist/nihilist. Essentially, I believe politics are irrelevant to the future of humanity and the planet and I've done a lot of work tracking the collapse of everything to back up this claim. Sadly, most environmentalism is just a bunch of bright green lies. Still, I volunteer for the local wildlife care network. I am pro-choice and volunteer for Planned Parenthood. I volunteered at a local TV station producing and directing lots of shows, including several that were distinctly right-wing (anti-vax, pro-life, climate deniers, etc.). My view is that the more stuff gets out there, even stuff I strongly disagree with, the more each of us has to work with to make up our own minds. Many liberals want to shut down free speech and I hate that. I live by the academic perspective, that information does the greatest good in the public domain, a perspective I've lived by my whole adult life.
Cheers all.
Last edited by Eliot; 07-19-2022 at 02:04 PM.
Yes, of course the dissemination of information is a good thing, at least in the abstract, but I am beginning to thing the proliferation of smart devices / hand held 'puters is leading to a form of information overload.Originally Posted by Eliot
Which wouldn't be bad IF people were trained to think critically and weigh and process it accordingly.
But most are not able to do so, relying instead on "trusted" sources to feed them pre-digested opinions.
What, Me Worry?
So you’re saying you never privately explained the vulnerability in the one2six to casino personal prior to your seminars? For the record this is only example there are others.Originally Posted by Eliot
Good, you are here. Welcome to the discussion of your life.
I am not really interested in any of the political discussions or views. I can't for the life of me figure why any of that, with anyone belongs on a gambling forum.
I also accept that you are retired, so am now less interested in your career with the "dark side".
I have questions about your blackjack card counting career, based on the article, if you feel like answering. Since that period, late 90's was before my time in the community, I only know what others have said. So your card counting career was only part-time, never full-time right?
Can I ask how long that lasted? Years? and what kind of money you made? vs what kind of money you were expecting to make when you began?
Statements in the article hint that you were uncomfortable with putting out the bigger bets, something that troubles many card counters in the beginning of their careers. Is that correct? I would have thought with your mathematical background and understanding the variance, more than most/many, you would have been able to overcome that.
These questions and hopefully answers are just for my own curiosity.
I will save my final comment and thought for later.
Dan Druff: "there's no question that MDawg has been an obnoxious braggart, and has rubbed a ton of people the wrong way. There's something missing from his stories. Either they're fabricated, grossly exaggerated, or largely incomplete".
This is about casinos bro. Who in their right mind have EVER suggested this is a "gambling forum". Sure those in casinos gamble but come'on. Thats your bit.Originally Posted by kewlJGood, you are here. Welcome to the discussion of your life.
I am not really interested in any of the political discussions or views. I can't for the life of me figure why any of that, with anyone belongs on a gambling forum.
I also accept that you are retired, so am now less interested in your career with the "dark side".
I have questions about your blackjack card counting career, based on the article, if you feel like answering. Since that period, late 90's was before my time in the community, I only know what others have said. So your card counting career was only part-time, never full-time right?
Can I ask how long that lasted? Years? and what kind of money you made? vs what kind of money you were expecting to make when you began?
Statements in the article hint that you were uncomfortable with putting out the bigger bets, something that troubles many card counters in the beginning of their careers. Is that correct? I would have thought with your mathematical background and understanding the variance, more than most/many, you would have been able to overcome that.
These questions and hopefully answers are just for my own curiosity.
Seriously though, Eliot should realize that casinos are legitimate scummy in a general sense. At the top they're rotten and the execs will gladly break people in a quest to make $$$. It is hard to figure out a way to find Eliot's approach acceptable. Even though some APs break the "rules" it is ok because the entities in question are so shitty. Obviously this isn't to say every employee is a bad person and many have felt really bad for the people just shoveling away their savings.
Tasha this sound familar? My guess is even Singer lost most of his retirement gambling. I mean dude is legitimately buying Ebay money to show-off.
I counted cards from 1997 to about 2001, on-and-off after that. Never a high-roller, typical max bet was 2x$100. In about 2002 or so I started primarily looking for more advanced plays. Again, a low-roller. For me, a superstar 3CP flasher was usually a $75 bet. Even given my smallish wagers, I had days winning and losing $3k or more. My best one-day win was $4,400, card counting a single-deck game. My worst day was losing slightly more than $6k, that was hole-carding 3CP. That was tough for me. I stopped all AP in 2005. It was always part time, I also had academic positions during this period.Originally Posted by kewlJGood, you are here. Welcome to the discussion of your life.
I am not really interested in any of the political discussions or views. I can't for the life of me figure why any of that, with anyone belongs on a gambling forum.
I also accept that you are retired, so am now less interested in your career with the "dark side".
I have questions about your blackjack card counting career, based on the article, if you feel like answering. Since that period, late 90's was before my time in the community, I only know what others have said. So your card counting career was only part-time, never full-time right?
Can I ask how long that lasted? Years? and what kind of money you made? vs what kind of money you were expecting to make when you began?
Statements in the article hint that you were uncomfortable with putting out the bigger bets, something that troubles many card counters in the beginning of their careers. Is that correct? I would have thought with your mathematical background and understanding the variance, more than most/many, you would have been able to overcome that.
These questions and hopefully answers are just for my own curiosity.
I will save my final comment and thought for later.
In 2002 Stanford Wong and I had a telling conversation. He told me that I was a theorist, that "Eliot, you've proven to yourself that you can beat the games, there's really nothing more in it for you." He was right. I hated the variance, I hated the smoke & noise & everything about being in a casino. I loved the math.
Interesting. I thank you for sharing that.Originally Posted by Eliot
My final comment is an opinion. You can comment or not, as I doubt you will change my mind.
Throughout the last number of years, it became obvious to me that you were playing one side against the other. The article kind of confirms that for me, with your desire to give your book away for nothing if you could have. You wanted to create as many AP's with the knowledge to beat the games in question, so you could then create a demand for your services to casinos to protect the games against these very AP's.
Kind of creating the demand for your protection services where there was none.Some may consider that smart. Even an AP play. I don't. And it is exactly why I have such a hard time trusting anyone in the AP community.
But to each his own. Enjoy your retirement.
Dan Druff: "there's no question that MDawg has been an obnoxious braggart, and has rubbed a ton of people the wrong way. There's something missing from his stories. Either they're fabricated, grossly exaggerated, or largely incomplete".
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