Professional Sportsbetting

[Rob.Singer]

Whatever it is, it's funny as hell! And chances are, it's only a available on the Martian internet.

[redietz]

Could somebody provide a link to this statement of 10-12% return for investors?

I am not doubting this since several people have mentioned it, but I don't see it on the blog and when I google integrity sports, I come up with a register company by Lou Tevlin an MLB agent.

I would like to read this for myself.

Axelwolf has reading issues, not that there's anything wrong with that. I'm more concerned with his memory issues, which (rumor has it) may be alcohol related, not that there's anything wrong with that, either.

I'll dig up the Wayback link. I still own the website name, by the way. I think this will get you there:


http://web.archive.org/web/200304231...itysports.com/

[AxelWolf]

No one can do everything. Mickey does what he does through great interest and motivation, and at an acceptable cost; much in the same way we all wonder what it would be like walking in his shoes every time he writes about his experiences. There isn't one person who reads about it that doesn't daydream.

The problem is we all age. I would imagine mickey had been a "hard-drinking mess of a man" in his younger days, which has a lore all its own. That eventually caught up with him, and it's amazing how he's been able to keep his foot on the gas after going thru a correction.

Those things you mention--home, wife, animals, friends (& I'll add family), hobbies, and especially the relaxing part: it would take an unusual and grizzled man to be able to just give that stuff up. Yet it becomes a bit chaotic when you try to do too much. I'm 4 years mickey's senior, but I still do a shit ton of driving because we find enjoyment in doing so, and I'm blessed with the ability to still be able to do it without issue. The trade-off comes in the form of dealing with the resulting cobwebs of purpose. So no....if you're at peace with what you do and why--just as mickey so obviously is--you are not doing the wrong thing.

BTW--in the Fezzik bio you'll notice how he finds NFL betting success by "focusing on only 5 games per week". I guess he remembers our battles on LVA Sports, and my success with the Singer Five, and why it was always only 5, back then. He learned well.

I don't know what all those guys are really doing. Let me give a little insight and something to think about. This isn't directed any anyone in particular.

Let's start off with the fact that people feen (is it phene or feen?) for sports betting, especially so with guys who have money to burn(think young cocky guy working on wall street.)
Those guys are always looking for someone or some service that has "good picks" whoever is the flavor of the month. They will even pay a shit ton for tout services(OFC, that's nothing compared to the amounts they are betting)

Now we have a bunch of handicappers/sports bettors/ whatever who are entering contests, making picks, etc. Some with legit skil,l some not so much. But, at some point, a few people gonna run hot as fuck. Word travels fast and the next thing you know people are beating their doors down and feening to get in on the action. Suddenly all kinds of sweet deals and offers are being made. Big backers are offering free rolls, apps, websites, affiliates, tout services etc, too good to pass up. We won't know what's really going on with all that, it's usually kept quiet.


Whatever the case, some of those guys become infallible and legendary, they can do no wrong, and even when they run bad and things start to average out. People remember all the winning, everything else is just bad luck, so there's always money coming in somewhere.
There's nothing wrong with all that, people got to make a living.


IIRC RED's site touted their goal for investors was 10-12% returns in NFL alone. Who the Fuck would need or want investors if you can make 10-12% on NFL? Now just imagine if you're even better at college Football. Anyone with a legitimate long-term 5% + edge in major sports handicapping should be filthy rich since the amount of action you can get in is huge and the venues are plentiful.

Axelwolf, you clearly have no idea what 10-12% return means. Have you no bank accounts? That is so weird. It really is.

It means if you start in September with 100K, the goal is to finish December with 110-112K. That is the normal American definition of 10-12% return.

A 10-12% return goal has nothing to do with having a 10-12% edge. Can you read? Have you ever talked to a financial advisor or sat down in a bank?

The reading comprehension is mind-blowing.

And "IIRC" is great unless you don't recall it correctly. LOL. You got it wrong, as in completely wrong.

I have to think this is all trolling, especially since the website snapshot was from the early 90's.

Now I have a serious question, Axelwolf. Did you drink alcohol before posting? I can't imagine a sober Axelwolf could misinterpet 10-12% return as a 10-12% edge FOR EVERY SINGLE EVENT. How could anyone who ever set foot into a bank? Or anyone who seriously gambled?

There is something seriously wrong with someone who reads 10-12% return as meaning "for every single event." That is some brain-dead reading comprehension.

Unbelievable.

I'm 100% sober,.I don't drink at home, I don't drink daily, I don't drink weekly it just depends on the situation and what I'm doing. I might go for weeks without having a drink. Sometimes I might have only one or 2, and sometimes I might drink all night. I have drank since Supebowl Sunday.

I read that days ago and did t even pay much attention.
I don't remember exactly what you were claiming.

Where did I say on every event. Explain why it matters what you start with. Are you saying if someone started with only 10k they would only make 1200 bucks? What if their betting units were just as big at the guy who started with 1000k?

Tell us, what was the person's average ev percentage per game, approximately how many games. If one had a 100k bankroll what was their average bet size per game?

[redietz]

I don't know what all those guys are really doing. Let me give a little insight and something to think about. This isn't directed any anyone in particular.

Let's start off with the fact that people feen (is it phene or feen?) for sports betting, especially so with guys who have money to burn(think young cocky guy working on wall street.)
Those guys are always looking for someone or some service that has "good picks" whoever is the flavor of the month. They will even pay a shit ton for tout services(OFC, that's nothing compared to the amounts they are betting)

Now we have a bunch of handicappers/sports bettors/ whatever who are entering contests, making picks, etc. Some with legit skil,l some not so much. But, at some point, a few people gonna run hot as fuck. Word travels fast and the next thing you know people are beating their doors down and feening to get in on the action. Suddenly all kinds of sweet deals and offers are being made. Big backers are offering free rolls, apps, websites, affiliates, tout services etc, too good to pass up. We won't know what's really going on with all that, it's usually kept quiet.


Whatever the case, some of those guys become infallible and legendary, they can do no wrong, and even when they run bad and things start to average out. People remember all the winning, everything else is just bad luck, so there's always money coming in somewhere.
There's nothing wrong with all that, people got to make a living.


IIRC RED's site touted their goal for investors was 10-12% returns in NFL alone. Who the Fuck would need or want investors if you can make 10-12% on NFL? Now just imagine if you're even better at college Football. Anyone with a legitimate long-term 5% + edge in major sports handicapping should be filthy rich since the amount of action you can get in is huge and the venues are plentiful.

Axelwolf, you clearly have no idea what 10-12% return means. Have you no bank accounts? That is so weird. It really is.

It means if you start in September with 100K, the goal is to finish December with 110-112K. That is the normal American definition of 10-12% return.

A 10-12% return goal has nothing to do with having a 10-12% edge. Can you read? Have you ever talked to a financial advisor or sat down in a bank?

The reading comprehension is mind-blowing.

And "IIRC" is great unless you don't recall it correctly. LOL. You got it wrong, as in completely wrong.

I have to think this is all trolling, especially since the website snapshot was from the early 90's.

Now I have a serious question, Axelwolf. Did you drink alcohol before posting? I can't imagine a sober Axelwolf could misinterpet 10-12% return as a 10-12% edge FOR EVERY SINGLE EVENT. How could anyone who ever set foot into a bank? Or anyone who seriously gambled?

There is something seriously wrong with someone who reads 10-12% return as meaning "for every single event." That is some brain-dead reading comprehension.

Unbelievable.

I'm 100% sober,.I don't drink at home, I don't drink daily, I don't drink weekly it just depends on the situation and what I'm doing. I might go for weeks without having a drink. Sometimes I might have only one or 2, and sometimes I might drink all night. I have drank since Supebowl Sunday.

I read that days ago and did t even pay much attention.
I don't remember exactly what you were claiming.

Where did I say on every event. Explain why it matters what you start with. Are you saying if someone started with only 10k they would only make 1200 bucks? What if their betting units were just as big at the guy who started with 1000k?

Tell us, what was the person's average ev percentage per game, approximately how many games. If one had a 100k bankroll what was their average bet size per game?

You completely misrepresented (in other words, lied about) everything on that site. You went on some ridiculous rant about somebody making 10-12% during a season being filthy rich.

All your questions can be found in "Tipsters or Gypsters?" -- McCusker did ROI tallies.

You flat-out lied about the site and what I was saying.

How about this -- you backtrack, apologize, actually read what's on the site, track down the old "Tipsters or Gypsters?" with the ROI analyses, and stop expecting me to tolerate your blatant, sloppy, lazy lies.

[Ozzy]

^^ His lie are not nearly as BLATANT as Chrissy Bloat Mitchell !

[coach belly]

I have to think this is all trolling, especially since the website snapshot was from 2000 or thereabouts.

Are you complaining about the information found at the link you provided, and encouraged the members to visit?

What a fucking ditz...step away, already.

And tewlj...you are, as usual, a clueless moron.

[accountinquestion]

Redietz is officially losing it. Hard to feel sorry for a man having a mental breakdown after he's put so much effort into sincerely mocking people.

Those mocked almost universally know more about gambling than some contest addict who seems to have missed out on the draftkings money printing era even when his skills supposedly are aligned. Instead here he is unable to pay his house's tax bill and doubling down. Oh he got one on Axel but he's forgotten the literal dozens of times someone has pointed out his nonsense and he has ignored it.

[accountinquestion]

All your questions can be found in "Tipsters or Gypsters?" -- McCusker did ROI tallies.

You flat-out lied about the site and what I was saying.

How about this -- you backtrack, apologize, actually read what's on the site, track down the old "Tipsters or Gypsters?" with the ROI analyses, and stop expecting me to tolerate your blatant, sloppy, lazy lies.

This is awesome. He goes off on everyone for being anonymous and not credible. Literally do a search for "tipsters or gypsters? mccusker" and all the entries are Redietz's forum posts !!!!!!!

Yall, I shit you not.

[kewlJ]

Redietz: I am disappointed that you attacked Axelwolf in the manner you just did. I know attacking anyone that challenges any aspect of a claim or history, is the "go to" move on this forum. There is no need for that. If someone legit, and by that I mean not a troll, and Axelwolf is not, questions or challenges someone, or their claims, that person should be able to respond, and maybe clear up anything that is misunderstood, without immediately resorting to just personal attacks. When the first thing someone being challenged does is resort to personal attacks, it puts you in the same league as Singer and Mdawg. They have no other answers, so they attack and immediately try to discredit. I have always tried to respond to any challenges or questions about what I do very civilly, until it becomes clear the person is just trolling.

Moving on, thank you for the link. I understand this was 24 years ago. Were you in the business of selling picks and/or your service at that time? And if so, are you still in that business? It is not a crime if you are. I would just like a better understanding of what you do and how you have supported yourself via sports betting for decades. AND if you were, it still doesn't prove Singers claim that you solicited him. It is funny, that no other members on any forum have made that accused you of that. Actually, not funny, but telling.

It still feels to me, like this has turned into some sort of gang effort to discredit redietz. And all we have really gotten to the bottom of, is that some people really don't like him because he can be arrogant. I'll go back to what I said before: Anybody spend any time on a forum with James Grosjean? At times he comes across as an asshole, but that doesn't mean he isn't who he says and doesn't know of what he speaks....he does!

[kewlJ]

I'll go back to what I said before: Anybody spend any time on a forum with James Grosjean? At times he comes across as an asshole, but that doesn't mean he isn't who he says and doesn't know of what he speaks....he does!

Another example: Michael Shackford. Not much question he can be a real dick is there? I wouldn't want to spend any time with this person. But that doesn't mean he isn't a top gambling math guy or that anything he has claimed or said in regards to gambling isn't true.

Sometimes you have to separate out whether personal feeling. That alone is not a reason to try to discredit someone, despite that it occurs here on this forum all the time.

[redietz]

KewlJ, Axelwolf went on a completely misinformed rant and didn't even bother to check what he was writing against the site, based on his "IIRC." That's flat-out lying. Either look up and fully quote the material or tone down the rhetoric because you don't really remember what you read. Axelwolf got multiple things completely wrong -- I can't believe that it was an accident. If it was an accident, he's lazy beyond belief and irresponsible. How can a professional gambler conflate 10-12% return for four months with having a 10-12% edge? Answer -- he can't. So no, not an accident.

I get Axelwolf's game here. Not appreciated.

The sports handicapping is consulting, like any other consulting. I talked to people on the phone when they wanted to discuss games. Many came to me because of "Tipsters or Gypsters?" Increasing numbers moves, however, made that kind of consulting prehistoric and less effective. So I went to hands-on with me handling the money so our group could get the best numbers. I've worked on percent-of-profit for the last dozen years or so. Haven't taken on anyone new for 10 years; not looking to take on anyone new.

[AxelWolf]

Axelwolf, you clearly have no idea what 10-12% return means. Have you no bank accounts? That is so weird. It really is.

It means if you start in September with 100K, the goal is to finish December with 110-112K. That is the normal American definition of 10-12% return.

A 10-12% return goal has nothing to do with having a 10-12% edge. Can you read? Have you ever talked to a financial advisor or sat down in a bank?

The reading comprehension is mind-blowing.

And "IIRC" is great unless you don't recall it correctly. LOL. You got it wrong, as in completely wrong.

I have to think this is all trolling, especially since the website snapshot was from the early 90's.

Now I have a serious question, Axelwolf. Did you drink alcohol before posting? I can't imagine a sober Axelwolf could misinterpet 10-12% return as a 10-12% edge FOR EVERY SINGLE EVENT. How could anyone who ever set foot into a bank? Or anyone who seriously gambled?

There is something seriously wrong with someone who reads 10-12% return as meaning "for every single event." That is some brain-dead reading comprehension.

Unbelievable.

I'm 100% sober,.I don't drink at home, I don't drink daily, I don't drink weekly it just depends on the situation and what I'm doing. I might go for weeks without having a drink. Sometimes I might have only one or 2, and sometimes I might drink all night. I have drank since Supebowl Sunday.

I read that days ago and did t even pay much attention.
I don't remember exactly what you were claiming.

Where did I say on every event. Explain why it matters what you start with. Are you saying if someone started with only 10k they would only make 1200 bucks? What if their betting units were just as big at the guy who started with 1000k?

Tell us, what was the person's average ev percentage per game, approximately how many games. If one had a 100k bankroll what was their average bet size per game?

You completely misrepresented (in other words, lied about) everything on that site. You went on some ridiculous rant about somebody making 10-12% during a season being filthy rich.

All your questions can be found in "Tipsters or Gypsters?" -- McCusker did ROI tallies.

You flat-out lied about the site and what I was saying.

How about this -- you backtrack, apologize, actually read what's on the site, track down the old "Tipsters or Gypsters?" with the ROI analyses, and stop expecting me to tolerate your blatant, sloppy, lazy lies.

I only commented on that one thing on that site. I doubt I'm the only person who would think the same. I'm going to ask a few people to read that and ask them what they understand it to mean.

IIRC means just that, it's a pre-admission I could be wrong.

I do honestly apologize for misinterpreting what was written and for not diving deeper or clarifying with you.

Can you kindly explain to me some of my questions or link to the appropriate page where it's explained?

Another question(s). If someone were to invest 200k why would they make 20k-24k and a 100k investor only make 10-12k?
I get how that works if you're investing in a business or something like that but I'm trying to understand how that worked within a sports betting business model. Did you just pool everyone's money and investors got the appropriate percentage based on their investment? How much money could you get down on those bets, was it basically unlimited? I ask because I see a situation where a limited amount of money can actually be bet leaving a situation where someone could overinvest more money than needed thus diluting smaller investors' percentages. For example, let's say I have a play that only requires a 10k bankroll and it's and I find an investor that invests 5k I decide I want a bigger percentage and then put up 200k.

What was your cut?
Did you also invest and put up your money with the same percentages and risk? How much per game on average was being bet?

[redietz]

All your questions can be found in "Tipsters or Gypsters?" -- McCusker did ROI tallies.

You flat-out lied about the site and what I was saying.

How about this -- you backtrack, apologize, actually read what's on the site, track down the old "Tipsters or Gypsters?" with the ROI analyses, and stop expecting me to tolerate your blatant, sloppy, lazy lies.

This is awesome. He goes off on everyone for being anonymous and not credible. Literally do a search for "tipsters or gypsters? mccusker" and all the entries are Redietz's forum posts !!!!!!!

Yall, I shit you not.

It must not exist. I probably posted pages (with mickey's aid) in the Retro Road Trip thread using some kind of special effects magic. I guess Google conquers all.

Of course, one of kewlJ's blackjack associates has a complete collection of "Tipsters or Gypsters?" A better collection than I do, actually. So maybe it actually existed.

Better check with Google.

[kewlJ]

Of course, one of kewlJ's blackjack associates has a complete collection of "Tipsters or Gypsters?" A better collection than I do, actually. So maybe it actually existed.

Who? I only ask because I am not aware that I have any blackjack "associates".

[coach belly]

If it was an accident, he's lazy beyond belief and irresponsible.

Wow...lazy beyond belief?

LOL...that's some Temple Grandin ranting right there.

[redietz]

I'm 100% sober,.I don't drink at home, I don't drink daily, I don't drink weekly it just depends on the situation and what I'm doing. I might go for weeks without having a drink. Sometimes I might have only one or 2, and sometimes I might drink all night. I have drank since Supebowl Sunday.

I read that days ago and did t even pay much attention.
I don't remember exactly what you were claiming.

Where did I say on every event. Explain why it matters what you start with. Are you saying if someone started with only 10k they would only make 1200 bucks? What if their betting units were just as big at the guy who started with 1000k?

Tell us, what was the person's average ev percentage per game, approximately how many games. If one had a 100k bankroll what was their average bet size per game?

You completely misrepresented (in other words, lied about) everything on that site. You went on some ridiculous rant about somebody making 10-12% during a season being filthy rich.

All your questions can be found in "Tipsters or Gypsters?" -- McCusker did ROI tallies.

You flat-out lied about the site and what I was saying.

How about this -- you backtrack, apologize, actually read what's on the site, track down the old "Tipsters or Gypsters?" with the ROI analyses, and stop expecting me to tolerate your blatant, sloppy, lazy lies.

I only commented on that one thing on that site. I doubt I'm the only person who would think the same. I'm going to ask a few people to read that and ask them what they understand it to mean.

IIRC means just that, it's a pre-admission I could be wrong.

I do honestly apologize for misinterpreting what was written and for not diving deeper or clarifying with you.

Can you kindly explain to me some of my questions or link to the appropriate page where it's explained?

Another question(s). If someone were to invest 200k why would they make 20k-24k and a 100k investor only make 10-12k?
I get how that works if you're investing in a business or something like that but I'm trying to understand how that worked within a sports betting business model. Did you just pool everyone's money and investors got the appropriate percentage based on their investment? How much money could you get down on those bets, was it basically unlimited? I ask because I see a situation where a limited amount of money can actually be bet leaving a situation where someone could overinvest more money than needed thus diluting smaller investors' percentages. For example, let's say I have a play that only requires a 10k bankroll and it's and I find an investor that invests 5k I decide I want a bigger percentage and then put up 200k.

What was your cut?
Did you also invest and put up your money with the same percentages and risk? How much per game on average was being bet?

Axelwolf, I have no motivation to be even semi-civil with you. So I'm not going to be.

[coach belly]

Who? I only ask because I am not aware that I have any blackjack "associates".

Are you drunk? He made it up.

[redietz]

Of course, one of kewlJ's blackjack associates has a complete collection of "Tipsters or Gypsters?" A better collection than I do, actually. So maybe it actually existed.

Who? I only ask because I am not aware that I have any blackjack "associates".

The gentleman posting here under the Asian handle, who of course is not Asian. He has more issues than I do, back to the beginning of it, I think. I don't have the first couple issues. They pre-date my being monitored.

[kewlJ]

The gentleman posting here under the Asian handle, who of course is not Asian. He has more issues than I do, back to the beginning of it, I think. I don't have the first couple issues. They pre-date my being monitored.

Oh, Kim Lee. He is an online friend or associate that I have benefited from networking with, but when you say "associate" I think more of a playing partner or teammate. That is what confused me.

[accountinquestion]

All your questions can be found in "Tipsters or Gypsters?" -- McCusker did ROI tallies.

You flat-out lied about the site and what I was saying.

How about this -- you backtrack, apologize, actually read what's on the site, track down the old "Tipsters or Gypsters?" with the ROI analyses, and stop expecting me to tolerate your blatant, sloppy, lazy lies.

This is awesome. He goes off on everyone for being anonymous and not credible. Literally do a search for "tipsters or gypsters? mccusker" and all the entries are Redietz's forum posts !!!!!!!

Yall, I shit you not.

It must not exist. I probably posted pages (with mickey's aid) in the Retro Road Trip thread using some kind of special effects magic. I guess Google conquers all.

Of course, one of kewlJ's blackjack associates has a complete collection of "Tipsters or Gypsters?" A better collection than I do, actually. So maybe it actually existed.

Better check with Google.

The fact that you expect anyone to spend any bit of energy beyond googling is a testament to your delusions.