Advantage Keno Play

[Treeshade]

Do you think he's made a lot of his team members "rich" as he likes to claim?

And that cock of his...do you think he really rivals Mr. Ed in that department as he'd have us believe?

Or...wait for it...could it be, dare I say it, "fantasy?"

Or perhaps an insidious form of "mental illness?"

I don't know if it rises to the level of mental illness, but it is most definitely insecurity, MrV. When people are on forums telling you they have made tens of millions gambling (advantage play) they are full of shit. They are telling a fantasy story.

People and players can win money by doing something where the math flips the long-term outcome to their side. But advantage players that do this for any period of time have to work to be able to keep doing it. It is an almost daily battle with the casinos.

When I started sharing my journey, including the money involved and the battles involved (variance/heat/backoffs), it was because there were people on the blackjack forums, I was on at the time, including the MIT guys that were painting a very unrealistic picture of winning, winning winning, almost like the casinos are handing out buckets of money. Like that is the business they are in. So I shared for many years what kind of money could be made and what was involved with doing so, as a card counter. The ups and down. The losing periods. The heat and backoffs, and last year the back-rooming.

Now yes, I know there is a lot more to advantage play than my narrow, little arena of card counting. Some players doing incredible things. New things everyday. Most things I don't understand. But I refuse to believe that so many people are just making buckets of money, hundred of thousands a week, millions of dollars a year. That is just not reality. The casino industry works way too hard, utilizing the latest technology to be sure that doesn't happen at the levels these people are claiming.

There has always been two paths to advantage play. 1) milking or sheering. Focus on longevity. You play limits and a style that is somewhat tolerated. And you learn what is tolerated. And you learn and play the cat and mouse game. Not really tricking or hiding, just finding a comfort level that is tolerated for at least a while. 2) Slaughter. Burn and slash. You get as much as you can for as long as you can (shorter and shorter durations).

But these guys today want us to believe they get that top amount on an ongoing basis. That no one cares. The casinos are fine with it. That is just not reality. It is in fact fantasy, and every one of these kinds of claims from Mdawg, to Singer, to "others" are just that.... fantasy. Some of these people might be making some money, but they are not doing the fantasy nonsense they claim, making millions yearly, making many others rich. ect.

And as soon as one of these guys starts talking about how big their dick is, come on. That is as big a tell as anyone who labels themselves the best or the GOAT. Insecurity at its peak.

That is mostly what these forums are insecure dude, making up fantasy because they are dissatisfied with something about their life and how it nhas played out. And as soon as someone injects a dose of reality, or math into the equation, they are the bad guy.

Everything I have said regarding what I’ve made is a fact. I have more then 20 million and have made many people multiple millions. I can’t take it with me we all die we all get sick. What I’ve made for others is more important to me then my score. I’ve paid the price for my score. Something we all eventually will face. I have 22 and 24 year old guys with mid 6 figure bankrolls all ready. I’m proud I’ve helped them. Shared my knowledge and hopefully they continue on.

What really matters is this. We all expire some sooner then others. How we are remembered by the ones closest to us is all that matters. Did you impact those close to you, did you change their life trajectory. I’ve done all I could to do this for my family. That’s all that matters to me

You take me humor as insecurities. I’m far from insecure in fact being confident in my opinion is paramount for success. Believe what you want.

Red, Rob Axel the older guys on this board i would trade all my cash if I could guarantee I could see that many years. In one second

Believe what you want it makes no difference

[Treeshade]

I'm unwilling to discuss private conversations, but I will say that I have reason to believe that SeedValue is legitimately an advantage player. This should not be taken as an absolute endorsement of ALL of his claims (it isn't) or an endorsement that people should work with him (I've never worked with him and don't know what he's like off-forum), but he does know some things that only someone who knows what he's doing would know.

I got mad respect for your knowledge bro. Other then that one thing with the con. You sometimes slip in dark sentences in your writing about death or not caring about shit. I know you don’t believe in God and that’s cool everyone has their beliefs. Live life for your family they care they are the reason. Sometimes when I would read your stuff it seemed like you were depressed. Idk maybe I’m wrong anyway just saying you helped many wiry your writing even tho I wished at times you stfu.

O and I’ve never recruited from these boards you literally are the only person I’ve ever offered anything to. I like to recruit and build my own. No bad habits to deal with that way. Teams make millions in this game in my opinion. Time is the problem we all need to deal with teams help solve that problem. Idk l

[Treeshade]

I'm unwilling to discuss private conversations, but I will say that I have reason to believe that SeedValue is legitimately an advantage player. This should not be taken as an absolute endorsement of ALL of his claims (it isn't) or an endorsement that people should work with him (I've never worked with him and don't know what he's like off-forum), but he does know some things that only someone who knows what he's doing would know.

Well, here's a quandary for you, Mission. If you have someone who "does know some things that only someone who knows what he's doing would know" who also DOES NOT know some things that anyone who knows what they're doing would know, what do you do with that? I mean the question sincerely, because I buy all the Seedvalue spiels about non-sports "AP" play. Of course, I know crap about most forms of "AP" play, so why wouldn't I buy them? But then he says some bizarro stuff, like when he didn't know prostitution was illegal in LV, and it's like fingernails on a chalkboard.

It's not like I'm looking to debunk Seedvalue. He just says some things that are eye-poppingly wrong, and because I've actually spent 50 years betting sports, and because I spent 20-plus years traipsing all over LV a hundred days a year, I'm evidently more aware of his completely off kilter comments when he makes them. That whole spiel of his about not liking to bet sports because it's behind a computer and he's not hands-on raping the casino cash boxes in person -- I mean, LOL. C'mon, man. Do your business in person! How hard is that? It's not like you're more likely to be banned/restricted because you give the casinos some facetime. You may be LESS likely to be banned/restricted betting sports if you do things hands on.

Some of the Seedvalue spiels are bizarrely off, and I'm not talking about the dong references. And it's not because anybody quizzed him; he just inserts discordant crap because he doesn't know it's discordant. He makes assumptions about sports betting that are in line with assumptions about other types of gambling, but his sports betting assumptions happen to be not quite right. He presumes things that shouldn't be presumed, and because those presumptions line up with various forms of "AP" play, most people buy it.

I don’t like you because your a rat not because you’re arrogant. People at the top of their game are arrogant.

I won’t die a rat tho unlike you.

Regarding my claims or what I’ve done it’s known by the ones who matter and my score will help my grandchildren. Something you don’t have right ?

Maybe you do idk it don’t matter

[Treeshade]

I'm unwilling to discuss private conversations, but I will say that I have reason to believe that SeedValue is legitimately an advantage player. This should not be taken as an absolute endorsement of ALL of his claims (it isn't) or an endorsement that people should work with him (I've never worked with him and don't know what he's like off-forum), but he does know some things that only someone who knows what he's doing would know.

Well, here's a quandary for you, Mission. If you have someone who "does know some things that only someone who knows what he's doing would know" who also DOES NOT know some things that anyone who knows what they're doing would know, what do you do with that? I mean the question sincerely, because I buy all the Seedvalue spiels about non-sports "AP" play. Of course, I know crap about most forms of "AP" play, so why wouldn't I buy them? But then he says some bizarro stuff, like when he didn't know prostitution was illegal in LV, and it's like fingernails on a chalkboard.

It's not like I'm looking to debunk Seedvalue. He just says some things that are eye-poppingly wrong, and because I've actually spent 50 years betting sports, and because I spent 20-plus years traipsing all over LV a hundred days a year, I'm evidently more aware of his completely off kilter comments when he makes them. That whole spiel of his about not liking to bet sports because it's behind a computer and he's not hands-on raping the casino cash boxes in person -- I mean, LOL. C'mon, man. Do your business in person! How hard is that? It's not like you're more likely to be banned/restricted because you give the casinos some facetime. You may be LESS likely to be banned/restricted betting sports if you do things hands on.

Some of the Seedvalue spiels are bizarrely off, and I'm not talking about the dong references. And it's not because anybody quizzed him; he just inserts discordant crap because he doesn't know it's discordant. He makes assumptions about sports betting that are in line with assumptions about other types of gambling, but his sports betting assumptions happen to be not quite right. He presumes things that shouldn't be presumed, and because those presumptions line up with various forms of "AP" play, most people buy it.

I don’t like you because your a rat not because you’re arrogant. People at the top of their game are arrogant.

I won’t die a rat tho unlike you.

Regarding my claims or what I’ve done it’s known by the ones who matter and my score will help my grandchildren. Something you don’t have right ?

Maybe you do idk it don’t matter

I played online poker for years inside I don’t like sitting inside. I like to travel If I wanted to sit inside all day betting sports looking at the four walls of my room I would. I’m also not interested in betting sports like you. I had to many things I liked to do.

[MisterV]

*yawn*

Is this attention seeking fool done tooting his own horn yet?

Gee, this guy now tries to portray himself as a loving, down home family man?

Get the fuck out of here.

By report you swing, fuck whomever, and traipse across the country all the time, doing AP.

Meanwhile..."Where's daddy?"

Some fucking "family man" bwa ha ha ha.

[Treeshade]

Do you think he's made a lot of his team members "rich" as he likes to claim?

And that cock of his...do you think he really rivals Mr. Ed in that department as he'd have us believe?

Or...wait for it...could it be, dare I say it, "fantasy?"

Or perhaps an insidious form of "mental illness?"

On my fathers life I have.

You don’t believe in God or I would say that.

It’s the thing I’m most proud of in my life. Helping them become successful

[MisterV]

OK, let's assume you have enriched the lives of a crew...I question it, but assume it is so: assume you are a highly successful AP.

Now I don't know much about that sort of thing but it cannot be easy, and must consume a lot of time.

You say you travel across the country to exploit an opportunity: this all takes a lot of time, time away from home.

Your mantra: "Live life for your family they care they are the reason."

Your family...how can you be a father or a loving husband if you are GONE most of the time, whether in casinos, traveling to casinos, swinging, whatever...time away from hearth and home?

Sounds hypocritical, i.e. "Do what I say, not what I do."

Dude, you seem to have built your life on sand.

[Treeshade]

*yawn*

Is this attention seeking fool done tooting his own horn yet?

Gee, this guy now tries to portray himself as a loving, down home family man?

Get the fuck out of here.

By report you swing, fuck whomever, and traipse across the country all the time, doing AP.

Meanwhile..."Where's daddy?"

Some fucking "family man" bwa ha ha ha.

My Dad died of cancer

You beat cancer right ? Good for you

My kids are in their mid 20s they graduated college, and have made more then you most likely already. Not that it matters the Money but they to help others, and don’t do the shit you think is so great. Their set

Their mom the strongest person I’ve ever met in my life was my savior.

You will out live me but i suspect my life was more fun. Considering you were a lawyer.

[Treeshade]

Dan have if you could delete my account I would appreciate it.

[MisterV]

Sorry about your dad.

So, your kids were your crew?

How in hell can a woman be any man's "savior?"

[Treeshade]

OK, let's assume you have enriched the lives of a crew...I question it, but assume it is so: assume you are a highly successful AP.

Now I don't know much about that sort of thing but it cannot be easy, and must consume a lot of time.

You say you travel across the country to exploit an opportunity: this all takes a lot of time, time away from home.

Your mantra: "Live life for your family they care they are the reason."

Your family...how can you be a father or a loving husband if you are GONE most of the time, whether in casinos, traveling to casinos, swinging, whatever...time away from hearth and home?

Sounds hypocritical, i.e. "Do what I say, not what I do."

Dude, you seem to have built your life on sand.

I will answer

I never missed a sporting contest a birthday or event in my children's life. Remember when they were young I played online poker.

When I traveled my family came with me, my wife never had to work I wanted her to be able to be at home
With the kids as mush as she wanted, but I was always present never missed one thing. Once I made enough money to give her the option to be a stay at home mom she said ok. Most women want that but they are with dead beat guys who can’t provide. She also became very successful in her own right starting a small online business with her expertise.

I’ve always approached Advantage gambling as a team sport. Poker was a 1v1 game. When I pivoted to all advantage gambling I just wanted to build wealth with others. I was brought in on a team recruited
( probably for my bankroll at the time ) by a team. I like working with other high functioning goal oriented people. Not compulsive problem gamblers ( the majority of APs )

My family always came first always

However it should be

Health
Family
Faith ( for you weed )
Work

Without taking care of your health you won’t be there for your family in the long run. So yes V you can manage everything if you surround yourself with a good team of people.

[Treeshade]

Sorry about your dad.

So, your kids were your crew?

How in hell can a woman be any man's "savior?"

How could my kids be my crew lol ? I’ve been gambling most of my life before they were even born. If you are asking how they made so much money, I obviously taught them things when they asked. Not however before they finished a degree in something they wanted to learn. Because money is just the score not a life. Your envy over my big cock clouds your judgment. I think by me mentioning that it makes your mind wonder. My cock size has nothing to do with my gambling life. Or how much time I’ve spent with my kids.

[Treeshade]

Thanks for the laugh V needed one lol

[Treeshade]

*yawn*

Is this attention seeking fool done tooting his own horn yet?

Gee, this guy now tries to portray himself as a loving, down home family man?

Get the fuck out of here.

By report you swing, fuck whomever, and traipse across the country all the time, doing AP.

Meanwhile..."Where's daddy?"

Some fucking "family man" bwa ha ha ha.

I’ve also asked for my account to be deleted because none of you are in my real life and don’t matter one bit. Maybe you can use those lawyer skills to get Dan to do that. I don’t care or need attention you mistake me for Kew. It doesn’t matter what anyone here believe or does. Mostly I know you guys post for fun anyway. Something to pass the time

[1Hit1der]

The thing that I don't get is why does anyone who doesn't present conclusive proof, worry so much about being just believed on an anonymous internet forum? People who come, and go, some of them not coming back, but, neither having any real, in theory, or, actual, in practice, short or long -term effects on the others.

But, most of them practically beg to be just believed. And, as far as I'm concerned, "Hell, just believe, or not, of me whatever you want, or need to." Since when did it become a matter of anything more?

So, I have to conclude that the ones who talk about it, want, or need, to be just believed are, in actuality, liars.

[Treeshade]

Sorry about your dad.

So, your kids were your crew?

How in hell can a woman be any man's "savior?"

my savior because she’s my True sole mate

Something only Straight men lucky enough to find it will understand

[Treeshade]

The thing that I don't get is why would anyone who doesn't present conclusive proof, worry so much about being just believed on an anonymous internet forum? People who come, and go, some of them not coming back, but, neither having any real, in theory, or, actual, in practice, short or long -term effects on the others.

But, most of them practically beg to be just believed. And, as far as I'm concerned, "Hell, just believe, or not, of me whatever you want, or need to." Since when did it become a matter of anything more?"

So, I have to conclude that the one's who talk about it, want, or need, to be just believed are, in actuality, liars.

I’ve asked to delete my account I don’t care really buddy. Believe what you want Kew will keep you entertained for however long he has left on this earth that’s a fact.

My life experience has no impact on your life. I’ve never wanted to teach the masses like MC or mission. Just wanted to keep my circle small and keep my head down.

[1Hit1der]

But, there's nothing bad about having a bit of fun without having to ask that accounts be deleted. It's not an either/or deal.

[Treeshade]

Do you think he's made a lot of his team members "rich" as he likes to claim?

And that cock of his...do you think he really rivals Mr. Ed in that department as he'd have us believe?

Or...wait for it...could it be, dare I say it, "fantasy?"

Or perhaps an insidious form of "mental illness?"

I don't know if it rises to the level of mental illness, but it is most definitely insecurity, MrV. When people are on forums telling you they have made tens of millions gambling (advantage play) they are full of shit. They are telling a fantasy story.

People and players can win money by doing something where the math flips the long-term outcome to their side. But advantage players that do this for any period of time have to work to be able to keep doing it. It is an almost daily battle with the casinos.

When I started sharing my journey, including the money involved and the battles involved (variance/heat/backoffs), it was because there were people on the blackjack forums, I was on at the time, including the MIT guys that were painting a very unrealistic picture of winning, winning winning, almost like the casinos are handing out buckets of money. Like that is the business they are in. So I shared for many years what kind of money could be made and what was involved with doing so, as a card counter. The ups and down. The losing periods. The heat and backoffs, and last year the back-rooming.

Now yes, I know there is a lot more to advantage play than my narrow, little arena of card counting. Some players doing incredible things. New things everyday. Most things I don't understand. But I refuse to believe that so many people are just making buckets of money, hundred of thousands a week, millions of dollars a year. That is just not reality. The casino industry works way too hard, utilizing the latest technology to be sure that doesn't happen at the levels these people are claiming.

There has always been two paths to advantage play. 1) milking or sheering. Focus on longevity. You play limits and a style that is somewhat tolerated. And you learn what is tolerated. And you learn and play the cat and mouse game. Not really tricking or hiding, just finding a comfort level that is tolerated for at least a while. 2) Slaughter. Burn and slash. You get as much as you can for as long as you can (shorter and shorter durations).

But these guys today want us to believe they get that top amount on an ongoing basis. That no one cares. The casinos are fine with it. That is just not reality. It is in fact fantasy, and every one of these kinds of claims from Mdawg, to Singer, to "others" are just that.... fantasy. Some of these people might be making some money, but they are not doing the fantasy nonsense they claim, making millions yearly, making many others rich. ect.

And as soon as one of these guys starts talking about how big their dick is, come on. That is as big a tell as anyone who labels themselves the best or the GOAT. Insecurity at its peak.

That is mostly what these forums are insecure dude, making up fantasy because they are dissatisfied with something about their life and how it nhas played out. And as soon as someone injects a dose of reality, or math into the equation, they are the bad guy.

Everything I have said regarding what I’ve made is a fact. I have more then 20 million and have made many people multiple millions. I can’t take it with me we all die we all get sick. What I’ve made for others is more important to me then my score. I’ve paid the price for my score. Something we all eventually will face. I have 22 and 24 year old guys with mid 6 figure bankrolls all ready. I’m proud I’ve helped them. Shared my knowledge and hopefully they continue on.

What really matters is this. We all expire some sooner then others. How we are remembered by the ones closest to us is all that matters. Did you impact those close to you, did you change their life trajectory. I’ve done all I could to do this for my family. That’s all that matters to me

You take me humor as insecurities. I’m far from insecure in fact being confident in my opinion is paramount for success. Believe what you want.

Red, Rob Axel the older guys on this board i would trade all my cash if I could guarantee I could see that many years. In one second

Believe what you want it makes no difference

One last thing Kew, this is the last time I will respond to you.

I only made an effort to find you because of your insistence I was toll. No need to rehash it, but

I NEVER WILL DOX YOU period

What I have made is possible and i suspect there are many more people out here that have made millions we just don’t know about them. IMO it’s impossible to do alone.

You over estimate the casinos ability and under estimate the ability of dedicated APs working together. I’ve never said the casinos let me do anything. I’ve been thrown out plenty. But I don’t quit we keep going and adapt. That’s the fun.


You will never make as much going solo in anything. Advantage play or regular business. Find your tribe

( if that’s a tribe of gay men you find in Vegas bathroom stalls )

Then train them up and level up

Anyone good luck buddy

[accountinquestion]

I don't know if it rises to the level of mental illness, but it is most definitely insecurity, MrV. When people are on forums telling you they have made tens of millions gambling (advantage play) they are full of shit. They are telling a fantasy story.

People and players can win money by doing something where the math flips the long-term outcome to their side. But advantage players that do this for any period of time have to work to be able to keep doing it. It is an almost daily battle with the casinos.

When I started sharing my journey, including the money involved and the battles involved (variance/heat/backoffs), it was because there were people on the blackjack forums, I was on at the time, including the MIT guys that were painting a very unrealistic picture of winning, winning winning, almost like the casinos are handing out buckets of money. Like that is the business they are in. So I shared for many years what kind of money could be made and what was involved with doing so, as a card counter. The ups and down. The losing periods. The heat and backoffs, and last year the back-rooming.

Now yes, I know there is a lot more to advantage play than my narrow, little arena of card counting. Some players doing incredible things. New things everyday. Most things I don't understand. But I refuse to believe that so many people are just making buckets of money, hundred of thousands a week, millions of dollars a year. That is just not reality. The casino industry works way too hard, utilizing the latest technology to be sure that doesn't happen at the levels these people are claiming.

There has always been two paths to advantage play. 1) milking or sheering. Focus on longevity. You play limits and a style that is somewhat tolerated. And you learn what is tolerated. And you learn and play the cat and mouse game. Not really tricking or hiding, just finding a comfort level that is tolerated for at least a while. 2) Slaughter. Burn and slash. You get as much as you can for as long as you can (shorter and shorter durations).

But these guys today want us to believe they get that top amount on an ongoing basis. That no one cares. The casinos are fine with it. That is just not reality. It is in fact fantasy, and every one of these kinds of claims from Mdawg, to Singer, to "others" are just that.... fantasy. Some of these people might be making some money, but they are not doing the fantasy nonsense they claim, making millions yearly, making many others rich. ect.

And as soon as one of these guys starts talking about how big their dick is, come on. That is as big a tell as anyone who labels themselves the best or the GOAT. Insecurity at its peak.

That is mostly what these forums are insecure dude, making up fantasy because they are dissatisfied with something about their life and how it nhas played out. And as soon as someone injects a dose of reality, or math into the equation, they are the bad guy.

Everything I have said regarding what I’ve made is a fact. I have more then 20 million and have made many people multiple millions. I can’t take it with me we all die we all get sick. What I’ve made for others is more important to me then my score. I’ve paid the price for my score. Something we all eventually will face. I have 22 and 24 year old guys with mid 6 figure bankrolls all ready. I’m proud I’ve helped them. Shared my knowledge and hopefully they continue on.

What really matters is this. We all expire some sooner then others. How we are remembered by the ones closest to us is all that matters. Did you impact those close to you, did you change their life trajectory. I’ve done all I could to do this for my family. That’s all that matters to me

You take me humor as insecurities. I’m far from insecure in fact being confident in my opinion is paramount for success. Believe what you want.

Red, Rob Axel the older guys on this board i would trade all my cash if I could guarantee I could see that many years. In one second

Believe what you want it makes no difference

One last thing Kew, this is the last time I will respond to you.

I only made an effort to find you because of your insistence I was toll. No need to rehash it, but

I NEVER WILL DOX YOU period

What I have made is possible and i suspect there are many more people out here that have made millions we just don’t know about them. IMO it’s impossible to do alone.

You over estimate the casinos ability and under estimate the ability of dedicated APs working together. I’ve never said the casinos let me do anything. I’ve been thrown out plenty. But I don’t quit we keep going and adapt. That’s the fun.


You will never make as much going solo in anything. Advantage play or regular business. Find your tribe

( if that’s a tribe of gay men you find in Vegas bathroom stalls )

Then train them up and level up

Anyone good luck buddy

If you won't dox kewl fuck it I will. Hopefully Dan isn't up late and you guys get to see who you have been talking to for years.