Electronic Blackjack - hit after doubling down.

[kewlJ]

I do!

Not really so much anymore. But earlier in my career, I used software to figure out everything I do and to formulate my plan of attacks (spreads, ramp ECT).

When I started employing things like spreading both ways and card counters basic strategy, I used software to determine just what these cost me compared to increased longevity.

[smurgerburger]

The point was that it is remarkable that you were asking people for the EV of the non-standard double option without having figured out the baseline -EV for the basic game (you said it was .6, which you said is the standard figure you use for local shoe games).

[kewlJ]

WHAT? I KNEW the HA for the basic game. It was this unusual hitting after double down that I was trying to get confirmation on.
I can only conclude you are playing games now. Have a good day. I am going to watch the rest of my baseball games in peace.

[smurgerburger]

If you knew the HE was .73 or whatever you're saying it is now, why did you say it was .6?

Or alternatively how did you know what the HE was when you weren't sure what hands you were allowed to double? (I believe you said it was ATC until Max pointed out that was unlikely.)

[kewlJ]

You are conflating two different discussions.

And you are being a complete trolling price of shit, similar to what coach belly does.

So just go fuck yourself.

[smurgerburger]

What am I conflating?

[accountinquestion]

Kewl. I am not sure about everything you've said in the past but why don't you answer this trolling piece of shit to shut him down?

[kewlJ]

I have. And he just keeps coming with more and more coach belly type bullshit.

And you aren't much different usually. It is troll shit.

[kewlJ]

Look, supposed you were to find a blackjack game where blackjack pays 2 to 1. Not 2 for 1, which is really even money and the casinos trying to trick players, but legitimate 2 to 1, meaning your $100 blackjack wins $200 for a return of $300.

This rule, which I have never seen except promotions, adds roughly 2.4% advantage on the player side. So if the off the top house advantage was .6%, with this rule, the player is at almost 2% (1.8%) advantage. Ok so then you notice that the game has a less favorable rule of no doubling after splits (no DAS). THIS rule adds .15% to the house. Would you still not be rushing to play that game. still over 1.5% advantage player!!

That is basically what Smorgasburg is crowing about here. This hitting and re-doubling down 'opportunity" after the initials double down is worth significant advantage to the player. So then you discover that you can't double on the soft hands. Much small gain to the house advantage (about .09%) Ok, small part of that significant advantage loss. the two combined, very, very favorable to the player.

And the only reason, I didn't know and said I didn't know about the soft doubling back in March, was because I hadn't really started playing the game yet. I had only played for about 10 minutes just checking to be sure that yes, you could take action (hit and re-double) after the initial double down. THAT was the big advantage swing.

So smurgerburgers comments are just nonsense. Just more troll stuff.

[smurgerburger]

I was wondering why you said the edge of the base game was .6, when asking people to figure out the edge with the glitch, when 30 seconds with an EV calculator would have told you it was .73 or whatever it is.

Seems pretty straightforward to me.

[kewlJ]

I was wondering why you said the edge of the base game was .6, when asking people to figure out the edge with the glitch, when 30 seconds with an EV calculator would have told you it was .73 or whatever it is.

Seems pretty straightforward to me.

I wasn't talking about THAT electronic game when I said that. THAT was a reference to the usual blackjack games that I play. And if I made that comment earlier than I think (the more recent discussion) it was because I hadn't started playing the electronic game yet, so didn't realize that you couldn't soft double, until I really got into playing it which was after my initial post back in March.

BUT, had I realized there was no soft double (at the time when asked, I said I didn't know), it would have changed NOTHING. The ability to take a second action after the original double down is worth so many more times, the .09% additional house advantage you are giving up.

I can't for the life of me, figure out why you are making a big deal out of the fact that I hadn't really started playing the game (except for about a 10 minute trial) so I wasn't sure at that time....which I said at that time.

[smurgerburger]

I am referring to the earlier discussion. You said then that the house edge of the base game was .6.

Pretty easy to look at the rules screen and see what the rules are, (including what BJ pays for example), which would seem rather relevant to calculating the value of the glitch play.

Also you could have just said you didn't know the HE and just wanted to know how much value the glitch added.

Come to think of it posting publicly about it on VCT before you even know the rules also seems a big strange.

But sometimes people behave strangely on forums.

[kewlJ]

I am referring to the earlier discussion. You said then that the house edge of the base game was .6.

Pretty easy to look at the rules screen and see what the rules are, (including what BJ pays for example), which would seem rather relevant to calculating the value of the glitch play.

Well, I didn't. When my brother told me of the play, my first question was "are you sure?". My second question was "and blackjack plays 3-2? So I knew what blackjack played before I even even tested the game.

I probably should have looked at the rule screen, but I didn't and that is why I didn't initially know about the soft doubled when asked. But like I just explained almost any small unfavorable rule like no doubling soft hands was minuscule compared to the advantage of taking a second action after seeing your double down card.

[jdog]

Fuck you Jdog. You have become as big a troll as Singer and Mdawg.

Don't get your panties in a bind. I'm merely pointing out your inconsistencies as others are. And when someone brings these to your attention you just act like you don't know what we're talking about. In reality there is a big difference between several months and several weeks, and most people would not confuse one with the other when speaking of actual events they participated in.

It seems to me you can't recall the details you post, it's almost as if they're insignificant to you. And I contend your honor... that the reason for this is that these details are made up... and not based on facts.

Your witness Smurger.

[coach belly]

coach belly type bullshit

If you want to see actual bullshit, then look no further than your own posts.

The quote below is typical tewlj bullshit, entirely fabricated.

I never said that it was an electronic machine on this forum, but several people guessed that it was

Why did you need make that up, when the truth is so easily found?

Because you are a compulsive liar, and you can't help it.

Nothing that you post should be believed.

[mickeycrimm]

So this game has a .5% HE with basic strategy, $100 max bet, and 100 hph playing at max speed.

So assuming perfect play (obviously not realistic but still), this machine generates an absolute max of $50 per hour per player for the house.

I can see why it has so few installations.


ETA - Oh wow you can redouble? Or you can hit say a 6 vs a 7-9, and THEN double, if you catch the appropriate card?

Yeah that $200brand/hr figure is not holding up.

One can easily get out 1000 rounds per hour on the Game King and Casino Wizard blackjack games. So why was KJ doing only 100 rounds per hour?

My guess is it was a blackjack console with 4 or 5 seats. Those games can move annoyingly slow. You have to wait on other players to make their bets. Then there is a countdown before the cards are dealt. Then you have to wait on others to play their hands before you get your turn. So you are not getting out very many rounds per hour.

Tony Bigcharles would play all five seats of a Dealer's Angels. Going from minimum bet to maximum bet with the count.

The public plays blackjack badly. I've observed very poor play on those blackjack consoles. So the house edge is probably more than double the theoretical.

I was told by someone that a new video blackjack game was introduced at his locaal casino recently. I know this about new games. When I find a new exploitable game in a casino it can take months for it to spread to other casinos.

[smurgerburger]

So this game has a .5% HE with basic strategy, $100 max bet, and 100 hph playing at max speed.

So assuming perfect play (obviously not realistic but still), this machine generates an absolute max of $50 per hour per player for the house.

I can see why it has so few installations.


ETA - Oh wow you can redouble? Or you can hit say a 6 vs a 7-9, and THEN double, if you catch the appropriate card?

Yeah that $200brand/hr figure is not holding up.

One can easily get out 1000 rounds per hour on the Game King and Casino Wizard blackjack games. So why was KJ doing only 100 rounds per hour?

My guess is it was a blackjack console with 4 or 5 seats. Those games can move annoyingly slow. You have to wait on other players to make their bets. Then there is a countdown before the cards are dealt. Then you have to wait on others to play their hands before you get your turn. So you are not getting out very many rounds per hour.

Tony Bigcharles would play all five seats of a Dealer's Angels. Going from minimum bet to maximum bet with the count.

The public plays blackjack badly. I've observed very poor play on those blackjack consoles. So the house edge is probably more than double the theoretical.

I was told by someone that a new video blackjack game was introduced at his locaal casino recently. I know this about new games. When I find a new exploitable game in a casino it can take months for it to spread to other casinos.

The problem of other players slowing the game was an easy out I didn't want to suggest to KJ.

Does he risk it? If he does it will lock him into this being a stadium style game (unlike the more recent slot cabinet games for example), which are not as common and easier to track down. He also never once mentioned anything about other players affecting the pace of game.

Of course normal players play far from perfectly, but they also don't play max bet and especially don't play maximum speed either.

But regardless the bit about the value to the house was just to express my doubt that these machines would be capped at $100 max bet.

[MDawg]

UNKewlJ can't even keep track of the numbers 1 2 3 4 (or 0), as in how many years he went to college, how can you expect him to track something like this, especially when he hasn't actually played is just reciting what he wants people to believe he did. (After Studying Up.)

The UNKewlJ claims consist of reading something on the 'net, studying up on the topic, and then posting online to make it appear as if he knows something about the matter.
Mostly, UNKewlJ is in a, as AccountInQuestion has put it: Neverending quest for street creds on the internet.

[Rob.Singer]

Uh-oh.....get ready for another pile of adjustments to kew's fable!

[kewlJ]

This was NOT one of the, what I will call Dealer's Angel's clones, or more modern dealer Angel type games in which there was 5 seats and player working off one large screen, and all players would win or lose depending on how the dealer's hand played out.

Instead, each seat and player had their own smaller screen. However the 3 or 4 stations (I saw about both number evenly) were configured with the screens back to back in a triangle or diamond configuration. I thought this odd because the screens back to back configuration actually takes up more floor space than if 3 or 4 stations were just placed next to each other. But there is probably a reason for this configuration, since every location had this (either the 3 triangle or 4 diamond layout/configuration).

I have seen individual games like mickeycrimm mentioned that the player really controlled the speed and you could get in several hundred rounds an hour ifdesired. Unfortunately this was not that. There was a timer that ran down between rounds, which contributed to the slow game speed, but unlike the 5 seat, 1 large screen games, it did not count down from 15 or 20 seconds. It was 5 seconds. This was still one of the aspects that contributed to the slower speed of the game.