Pete Rose Bet On His Team To Win: SO WHAT!

[Rob.Singer]

For those of you who missed out on the Golden Age of baseball--and "When It Was A Game"--Pete Rose (who just recently passed away) was a true GIANT of the game. A 17-time All-Star who still has more hits than even the ulrtra-coddled prima donna spics & foreigners of today, 3-time World Series champion Charlie Hustle was the ultimate epitome of what a true star baseball player was and is all about. And yet, he STILL is blocked from entering Cooperstown--because (horror of horrors) he bet on his own team to WIN games.

In the current age of players who play because of the money and not because they truly respect the GAME, it makes real fans puke. In Roses' time and shortly before, when we had incomparable talents such as Willie Mays, Sandy Koufax, Carl Yastrzemski, Hank Aaron, Mickey Mantle, Stan Musial, Ted Williams, Bob Gibson, Al Kaline, Juan Marichal, Harmon Killebrew, Johnny Bench, Mickey Lolich, Whitey Ford, Reggie Jackson, Duke Snyder etc.,--and when pitchers regularly pitched complete games and weren't removed from games due to geeky analytics & wussified pitch-count bullshit--Pete Rose stood tall among the game's greatest players of all time. Yet the weary mealy-mouthed MLB executives just couldn't muster up the courage to honor Rose the way he was always meant to be honored. All because he was so confident in his physical skills that he put his money where his training was.

Far removed from the losers and pathetic generations of today that slip into their little safe spaces the moment the volume goes up, these real men of the past should all be honored in the same way for their contributions to their sport.

I hope I live long enuf to see the day this legend finally gets his due.

[kewlJ]

My late partner and I saw Pete Rose at LVH (now Westgate), appropriately enough in the sportsbook. He was just sitting watching a game. Apparently, he had done a signing there that day, and just hung around for a while afterwards. People came up to him to say hello and he was friendly. My partner got to tell him that he was from Philadelphia and how much that 1980 World Series that Pete was a part of, meant to him.

A short time after that, The Pete Rose Sports Bar opened in the front of Planet Hollywood. We went once, because they advertised menu items from each city that Pete played for and for Philadelphia, it was a cheesesteak. I will always try anyplace claiming a good Philly cheesesteak. Unfortunately, it was nothing special. Just a touristy overpriced generic cheesesteak. The Pete Rose Sports Bar didn't last long. Less than a year if I remember. I think I read that he didn't really own the place, that it was just a name licensing thing. Anyway it was gone as quickly as it popped up.

The next time I saw Pete Rose, was after my partner had passed. When my brother and I moved into a condo near the strip, guess who lived there. I probably saw him 5 or 6 times around the property. Said hello a couple times. I hadn't seen him for several years now, but I think he owned homes elsewhere, so was probably only their part of the time.


I rarely agree with Rob on anything, but I do with this. It is just not right that he is not in the Hall of Fame. There are some real flawed characters in the baseball hall of fame. Players that were known alcoholics, womenizers, abusive. But that is NOT what the hall of fame is about. The hall of fame is about what a player accomplished between the lines on the baseball field. Pete Rose is the all-time hit leader for God sakes and certainly one of the greatest players ever. He belongs in the hall of fame.

Mickey Mantel and Willie Mays were both banned from baseball after they retired for associating with Atlantic City casinos. Nothing illegal (even for that time). They were hired as greeters. Although banned from baseball, it effected neither's hall of fame credentials. The HoF didn't pull them. So Why was Rose treated differently?

Additionally, Pete Rose's "crime" according to baseball, occurred when he was a manager, NOT a player. If anything he should be ineligible to be in the HoF as a manager (which he was never going to be).

And finally, do you really think Pete Rose is the first athlete to bet on sports? Come on. And there is no proof that he bet against his team or did anything as a player or manager to ensure his team lost. If there was proof of that, then you are talking Black Sox type scandal. Absolutely ZERO proof or evidence of that in the 35 years since his ban.

I suspect there will be an effort to instate Pete Rose in the HoF, now that he has passed. And that is just petty. And that is all this ever was...one man, one commissioners, pettiness. It is a black stain on baseball.

[The Boz]

Good to see you back KJ.

Minor correction, the Pete Rose bar was in front of the Hawaiian Marketplace. It was multiple restaurants over the years including a Heart Attack Grill for less than a month. Pete wasn’t getting paid his royalties and his name was quickly removed and there sign just said “Sports Bar & Grill”.

While I agree 100% with you and Rob (yes fucking amazing) on the HoF there was the potential for decisions detrimental to both the game and players with his wagers on his own team. Records show there were certain games and pitchers he didn’t bet the Reds that day. So the potential was there to make managerial decisions that were good for the short term (the game he bet on) that affected the long term seasonal prospects for the team. Such as bringing a closer in earlier than needed or leaving a pitcher in longer than needed on a day he didn’t bet on the team. And making other decisions to win that game and hurt the next game. While I certainly don’t believe he ever threw a game, it’s just not a good look for him or the sport.

But the punishment far outweighs the crime. It simply isn’t a Baseball Hall of Fame without Pete Rose. And baseball was very inconsistent with his banning by allowing him to return for certain events over the years but banning him from others. The man paid for his misdeeds and should have been unbanned years ago.

Add in the hypocrisy with the leagues pushing gambling today in a dangerous manner for profits and it’s a total embarrassment that he died ineligible.

[MDawg]

My late partner and I

I have been reading through this forum and the lies he has told you guys are really out there. Even for him.

Even renounced the existence of his "soul mate" claims he lied about him and his gay marriage too!

.....

I thought I just read you saying something about not actually being with a partner 20 years older than you? Did I misunderstand? If you were lying about that or claim to have lied able that. WOW... MIND BLOWN!

It is pretty sick one would deny their spouse. Especially since that is truth. There's no doubt I've seen them both. But this FraudJ is a special kind of character. He lacks any kind of moral compass.

I guess that's why he prostitutes himself.

One sick puppy....RIP

[kewlJ]

Good to see you back KJ.

Minor correction, the Pete Rose bar was in front of the Hawaiian Marketplace. It was multiple restaurants over the years including a Heart Attack Grill for less than a month. Pete wasn’t getting paid his royalties and his name was quickly removed and there sign just said “Sports Bar & Grill”.

Not really back Boz. Just too passionate about this not to comment. But I am not going to waste much time here playing the troll games.

Ok, not in front of PH, but same area. I don't remember Heart Attack Grill being there. Must not have been there long. First, I encountered that place was Fremont Street. But then again there were a number of years I didn't play and spend much time on the strip.

They probably will not do so immediately, because that would look horribly bad, but in the next couple years, Baseball will lift the ban, allowing Pete Rose to be voted into the HoF. And the writers will vote him in. And when that happens baseball will ask Petey Jr, to accept the induction on behalf of his father. I don't know if he is associated with baseball in any way anymore, but I hope he tells them to go to hell.

[MDawg]

Is there anyone on these forums more universally despised than the UNKewl one? Doubtful.

But I am not going to waste much time here

One thing is for CERTAIN. Whatever the UNKewl one does today, his mind will be spinning thinking about...MDAWG.

And he'll return to post more. About MDawg.

Or maybe he'll give us a break and once again vow (with or without a solemn oath) that he is done with posting. Until his mind unravels and he comes back, again.

[MisterV]

Pete Rose AGREED to the permanent ban: it wasn't ordered over his objection.

Plus, there is this....

"Dowd spoke with bookmakers and other runners claiming to be associated with Rose. Among those was Janszen, who detailed much of Rose's gambling network, including noting Rose lost $450,000 in a three-month span in 1987. Janszen claimed Rose said he would consider throwing a game if a large enough bet was placed on it, and said he'd check with managers before games to ask about the health of opposing players before placing bets on their teams.

"He would talk about his gambling in front of a lot of people. And his answer for that always was, 'They can't get me,'" Janszen said. "He put himself above everything. 'They can't get me,' he'd say. 'What have they got? What are they going to prove? How are they going to prove it?'""

----https://www.sportingnews.com/us/mlb/news/pete-rose-gambling-scandal-mlb-hits-record-banned-betting/bef86ec38adf1cb165801853

The moral of the story?

MLB, unlike VCT, has consequences for violating its rules.

[MDawg]

Still knowing next to nothing about this P Rose HOF matter, what V says makes sense.

Which begs the Q - if V is capable of independent, even, analytic thought, why does he get in bed with an inveterate liar incapable of even maintaining a cogent fable story line.

I have been reading through this forum and the lies he has told you guys are really out there. Even for him.

Next time you want to tell a whopper, talk to me and lets walk through it. I'll only charge you $200.

A lot of people would like to play poker with you V, after seeing that post.

.

[The Boz]

Pete Rose AGREED to the permanent ban: it wasn't ordered over his objection.

Plus, there is this....

"Dowd spoke with bookmakers and other runners claiming to be associated with Rose. Among those was Janszen, who detailed much of Rose's gambling network, including noting Rose lost $450,000 in a three-month span in 1987. Janszen claimed Rose said he would consider throwing a game if a large enough bet was placed on it, and said he'd check with managers before games to ask about the health of opposing players before placing bets on their teams.

"He would talk about his gambling in front of a lot of people. And his answer for that always was, 'They can't get me,'" Janszen said. "He put himself above everything. 'They can't get me,' he'd say. 'What have they got? What are they going to prove? How are they going to prove it?'""

----https://www.sportingnews.com/us/mlb/news/pete-rose-gambling-scandal-mlb-hits-record-banned-betting/bef86ec38adf1cb165801853

The moral of the story?

MLB, unlike VCT, has consequences for violating its rules.

He claimed he agreed to the ban with an understanding it would be reviewed in a year. But, yes he did agree to it.

The question here is did the punishment fit the crime? And most would agree, no it didn’t. It’s been over 30 years and other than Shoeless Joe Jackson, no one was ever treated as harshly in sports. And JJ admitted to throwing World Series games, something Rose never did.

At best baseball and sports are hypocritical for their current embracing of gambling on their games. And don’t get me started on how they are doing it with an emphasis on long shot parlays being pushed on preshows and during games at the books request because of the high holds on these.

As for consequences, like in life, they aren’t distributed equally or fairly. Pete got life for a petty crime while (unconvicted) people that are believed to have committed murder are in the Hall of Fame, see Ray Lewis.

[Rob.Singer]

Pete Rose AGREED to the permanent ban: it wasn't ordered over his objection.

Plus, there is this....

"Dowd spoke with bookmakers and other runners claiming to be associated with Rose. Among those was Janszen, who detailed much of Rose's gambling network, including noting Rose lost $450,000 in a three-month span in 1987. Janszen claimed Rose said he would consider throwing a game if a large enough bet was placed on it, and said he'd check with managers before games to ask about the health of opposing players before placing bets on their teams.

"He would talk about his gambling in front of a lot of people. And his answer for that always was, 'They can't get me,'" Janszen said. "He put himself above everything. 'They can't get me,' he'd say. 'What have they got? What are they going to prove? How are they going to prove it?'""

----https://www.sportingnews.com/us/mlb/news/pete-rose-gambling-scandal-mlb-hits-record-banned-betting/bef86ec38adf1cb165801853

The moral of the story?

MLB, unlike VCT, has consequences for violating its rules.

V, please pay attention. Cooperstown was created to honor what they accomplished, and Rose accomplished more than 99% of other players. As said above, there are numerous others in the HoF who've committed more serious "rules violations" than Pete Rose. And putting up hearsay just to be a bitter contrerian only takes another chunk out of your credibility on whatever else you say.

[MisterV]

"Hearsay?"

The guy witnessed it apparently so no it isn't hearsay.

No one can take Pete's accomplishments away from him...he did what he did...but he'll forever be stained, with an asterisk next to his name.

[accountinquestion]

Pete let himself be fucked in the ass by every Green Day member to pay off gambling debts.

Wise up.

[DGenBen]

Reminds me of an old bit Bobby Slayton used to do

He would say could you imagine at barber shops in China where they have photos of all the different hair styles they do and then the barber points to the photos and asks the customer:

You rike a Moe, or a Moe, or a Moe, or a Moe, or a Pete Rose, or a Moe, or a Moe?

[theywontpayontuesday]

MrV really did make the case against Pete Rose pretty solid. I'm more disappointed the players from the steroid Era like Barry Bonds, Mark McGwire and Roger Clemens are not in the HOF. Maybe someone rich can lease space in Cooperstown to start and "almost hall of fame".

[Rob.Singer]

Rose's "lifetime ban" should now be over since his lifetime is over. He will be enshrined soon.

No asterisk will be next to Pete's name because his gambling had zero effect on what he accomplished as a player.

V, do you ever get it right?

[MisterV]

Rose's "lifetime ban" should now be over since his lifetime is over. He will be enshrined soon...V, do you ever get it right?

Usually, yeah, and this case I'm right and you are wrong.

What is this bullshit you're spewing about him having only a "lifetime ban?"

He and his attorney agreed in writing that his ban from baseball is "permanent."

Do you know what that word means, Robert?

It means "forever."

I know you WISH he'll be inducted into Cooperstown, but hey, try this....shit in one hand and wish in the other.

[Rob.Singer]

Rose's "lifetime ban" should now be over since his lifetime is over. He will be enshrined soon...V, do you ever get it right?

Usually, yeah, and this case I'm right and you are wrong.

What is this bullshit you're spewing about him having only a "lifetime ban?"

He and his attorney agreed in writing that his ban from baseball is "permanent."

Do you know what that word means, Robert?

It means "forever."

I know you WISH he'll be inducted into Cooperstown, but hey, try this....shit in one hand and wish in the other.

You're still not getting it. An agreement between 2 parties ends when one of the participating parties no longer exists. In this case, "permanent" becomes lifetime at that point.....and "lifetime" is over. Besides, the most famous, most popular person in the world--our past president & NEXT president--declared he should now be enshrined. Something like THAT means a ton to all normal, decent human beings.

It's typical of underachieving haters to want to see chaos and trouble for others because of their accomplishments--and in this case, AMAZING accomplishments.

[MisterV]

Robert, I don't "hate" Rose...I really don't give a rat's ass one way or the other; I am simply acting as a reality ckeck.

But don't just take it my word for it...

https://www.wcpo.com/news/local-news...t-not-lifetime

"While the career hits leader's banishment from baseball 35 years ago was often referred to as a lifetime ban, and his death this week led some to believe that would end, Rose agreed to permanent ineligibility from Major League Baseball following a probe of his betting on the game.

Anyone on the permanently ineligible list can't be considered for election to the Hall under a rule adopted by the Hall's board of directors in 1991. Rose's status didn't change when he died Monday at age 83 of natural causes in Las Vegas."

Wise up.

[theywontpayontuesday]

I think the MLB HOF needs to rewrite the voting process to always allow its greatest the opportunity to be in the HOF voting.

[Rob.Singer]

Robert, I don't "hate" Rose...I really don't give a rat's ass one way or the other; I am simply acting as a reality ckeck.

But don't just take it my word for it...

https://www.wcpo.com/news/local-news...t-not-lifetime

"While the career hits leader's banishment from baseball 35 years ago was often referred to as a lifetime ban, and his death this week led some to believe that would end, Rose agreed to permanent ineligibility from Major League Baseball following a probe of his betting on the game.

Anyone on the permanently ineligible list can't be considered for election to the Hall under a rule adopted by the Hall's board of directors in 1991. Rose's status didn't change when he died Monday at age 83 of natural causes in Las Vegas."

Wise up.

Final teachable moment for someone who gets his kicks in life by trying--and at times, foolishly so--to take the unpopular positions that always fly in the face of common sense.

There are only two things in this world that can never be changed: death, and time.