Recent Vegas blackjack experience

[kewlJ]

. We're in Little Canada, Mn. getting ready to take our entire family out to Porterhouse Steakhouse.

That is a taco bell, not a steakhouse, Big spender.

[DGenBen]

Look there’s some tables over there! One, two, three! I counted them.

Haha! Except, that isn't the way card counting works. You aren't really counting anything, except maybe when you first start out. You aren't sitting there doing some kind of running count +1, +2, +1, +2, +1, 0, -1, 0. What you are doing is canceling cards at a glimpse.

If you look at a table and see hands of A,6, 8,5,7, 9,J; 8,8,3; 5,4; You don't even see the 5 cards that are 7,8,9, You see 3 high cards (10 value and ace) and 5 low cards (2-6) that cancel out for a total of +2. Half a blink of an eye and those 13 cards register as +2. No counting. And then you start to see that everywhere. Every table you look at, whether blackjack or not, in a half blink of an eye, you pick up a count. You are on auto pilot. That is when tracking a second and or 3rd table occurs. You don't even practice it. It just happens.

Actually in spite of all the trolling and joking that goes on around here, this seems perfectly reasonable to me.

[MDawg]

What he is trying to say, but not saying precisely correctly, is common knowledge, no one ever accused UNKewlJ of anything other than lifting what he heard or read. However, even with what he's trying to say he's not saying it precisely - the point is for the average counter the numbers that "cancel out" are viewed in pairs, not clumps, not individually. Someone this scatter brained is incapable of connecting more than pairs, but pairs is the way most counters would express what he is trying to say.

For example, a king and a 2 cancel each other out, 5 and a 10, cancel each other out, THAT'S what he is trying to say in his roundabout damaged brain way. A,6 cancel each other out. That's what the average counter would notice right away. Obviously on a simple count 7,8,9 are zero, but the "tool" to which he is alluding that helps basic counters is viewing the pairs where the numbers cancel each other out quickly, versus adding them. It does make things easier for the average counter.

You have to remember, he can't even keep track of how many years he supposedly was in college, and never even learned the difference between the words affect and effect which is stronger proof that he's a high school dropout than any lies he tries to lay down. It is inconceivable that someone could get through most any college let alone a private one and not know such things.

Kew you're not fooling anybody with your stoopid "my blackjack journey" stuff....and you never have. You've never done anything more than "lift" information, procedures and tactics off of the true players and concocted stories of your own with it. If you're not seeing this reputation you've earned, then you are certified Philadelphia-dumb. And continuously trying to divert and deflect by using the mdawg "journey" while showing your irritation with and hatred of wizard for ignoring your constant nonsense & obsession, all you're doing is making an even bigger fool of yourself.

THAT'S how things really work.

[kewlJ]

What he is trying to say, but not saying precisely correctly, is common knowledge, no one ever accused UNKewlJ of anything other than lifting what he heard or read. However, even with what he's trying to say he's not saying it precisely - the point is for the average counter the numbers that "cancel out" are viewed in pairs, not clumps, not individually. Someone this scatter brained is incapable of connecting more than pairs, but pairs is the way most counters would express what he is trying to say.

For example, a king and a 2 cancel each other out, 5 and a 10, cancel each other out, THAT'S what he is trying to say in his roundabout damaged brain way. A,6 cancel each other out. That's what the average counter would notice right away. Obviously on a simple count 7,8,9 are zero, but the "tool" to which he is alluding that helps basic counters is viewing the pairs where the numbers cancel each other out quickly, versus adding them. It does make things easier for the average counter.

You have to remember, he can't even keep track of how many years he supposedly was in college, and never even learned the difference between the words affect and effect which is stronger proof that he's a high school dropout than any lies he tries to lay down. It is inconceivable that someone could get through most any college let alone a private one and not know such things.

Cancelling out pairs is undoubtedly the first step. And when I say that, again, I am not talking about a conscious decision that "hey I am going to cancel pairs of cards one on one". It just happens. No conscious decision. Auto pilot. You probably don't even realize it is happening at the time.

And that is the first but only the first step. The real "jump" comes when you start seeing the 7,8,9 as zero. Or maybe a more precise way of saying it that you don't even recognize those cards. They might as well be jokers sitting there. They have absolutely no relevance to you. So basically, you don't even see them there. They are invisible. That leaves you with whatever cards do really matter, and you can quickly cancel them out in clumps. NOT 1 on 1, but CLUMPS! 8, 9 cards you see as a single number of +2, +3, -2 ect.

That is when you can track multiple tables with really no effort. You don't need to see every card. Just a glimpse of the table for a tiny fraction of a second. If someone shifts in their seat and blocks some view until you can shift and restore a line of sight...no problem.

And the canceling out in a fraction of a second, a "glimpse" as I call it, opens up other opportunities as well, that I am not going to go into.

Dawg if you weren't so hell bent on trolling and trying to convince people how stupid I am with "drop out and homeless" comments, we might be able to have an occasional conversation that we both and others could benefit from. But, NO, you just get so bent out of shape at anyone that dares say they don't believe something you say, that you go beserk....literally. You go deep down the rabbit (or Troll hole).

[kewlJ]

And I will say this which is a little controversial in the card counting world. This multi-card or clump cancelation, can only be done with a single level one type count. And all the practice in the world isn't going to change that. It is a function of how the brain processes things. This is why I have always been a proponent of level one counts (like hi-lo). Or more accurately I guess I should say I have been a proponent of level one counts since about a 6 month period of playing a level 2 count, RPC 15 years ago. Any slight advantage gained by a level 2 count is dwarfed by the opportunities opened up by keeping it simple.

Somewhere deep in Norm's "Modern blackjack" there is a brief section comparing different level counts. Norm makes a simplistic statement that the brain processes what it sees in a level 1 count differently than a level 2 count. And that is all you need to know. And Norm is no huge proponent of level 1 counts. He learned the game, playing a level 2 count, Revere Point Count. And his book is written in a way that almost promotes Felt Count which is basically RPC with different index plays. I am sure he would scream that he is not promoting anything. I am just saying that is what he is comfortable with. But even so, he recognizes that the counts are processed differently. And kudos to him for that.

[kewlJ]

But really, I hope we are going to circle back around to the situation Druff posted about in the original post of this thread. There really are only a very small number of casinos that fit the bill or independent, especially if he is really talking complete independent and not just independent in Vegas area, and then you can eliminate a couple that weren't around in 2010 when he last played. And then you think about who has all or mostly CSM (which probably takes them out of my rotation of games) and the final thing is who is sweaty or paranoid enough to embrace the practice of IDing everyone.

I would like confirmation from Druff, but can't force him to do so, although I don't know why he wouldn't unless he is going to try going the fake ID, and disguise route. (and that doesn't work either. )

[The Boz]

A Jew, an Arab and a gay walk into a casino to play Blackjack………

Well THIS gay guy wouldn't play at the same table as Druff. But I would play at the same table as the smelly Arab. Tell me why?

Well of course anyone would love the opportunity to spread 50-1 at a DD game for hours. It would be the most profitable day of your career.

[MDawg]

The longer the UNKewl post, the more lies it contains.

And of course, there will be some regurgitation of theory he pulled from somewhere or other blah blah blah as he tries to make it seem like he has actually played and not just read about it.


UNKewlJ has gotten to the pitiful point where he cries over being picked on, and wonders why anyone would bother picking on such a helpless person in the first place.

Poor poor KJ. Always the victim.

[jdaewoo]

Since apparently it's fine to post non topical messages in any thread,

I see that retard ahigh is back at the wiz forum. He's the one who told everyone they were retarded for thinking his retarded $100 minimum pinball gambling machine was retarded. How many installs did it get? 0? Retard.

[Dan Druff]

A quick Google search using your name would indicate that you are a poker pro.
Casinos are going to be suspicious about a poker pro playing non poker games.
Especially when it's a known vulnerable game like blackjack.
From their point of view it's would be better to bump you rather than take a chance you are a card counter.
Looks like the casino was right.

Perhaps they might have found out you are connected to KJ the famous blackjack pro.

I did think that perhaps they googled me, saw some things which didn't strike their fancy (poker pro, running this forum, having a gambling related podcast, etc), and got rid of me for that reason.

I'm just wondering if anyone else has had an experience like this.

[DGenBen]

A Jew, an Arab and a gay walk into a casino to play Blackjack………

The Jew says the table minimums are too high, the Arab threatens to blow up the casino unless he wins, and the gay guy takes the dealer into a back room and sucks him off.

[The Boz]

Since apparently it's fine to post non topical messages in any thread,

I see that retard ahigh is back at the wiz forum. He's the one who told everyone they were retarded for thinking his retarded $100 minimum pinball gambling machine was retarded. How many installs did it get? 0? Retard.

All time idiot. Everyone (almost everyone) told him he was a clown for pushing it as a table game. He was adamant that it wouldn’t have a TITO and needed a “dealer” to work the game.

The only person supporting him was Axel, who obviously saw an opportunity when he mentioned it was a potential AP play with +EV states at times. Imagine going into a casino and pitching those details to an executive that makes placement decisions.

Add in the guy worked for a well known scamming, fraudulent CEO with a history of bankruptcy and prison time.

Truly a legendary time at WoV. Guessing the guy was fucked up the other night and decided to come back and respond to a decade old post he already had responded to years earlier.

Sadly the guy was a helluva video game designer back in the day.

[MisterV]

A Jew, an Arab and a gay walk into a casino to play Blackjack………

"Ah, look at that: free, self serve coffee and soft drinks, just what I like."

"Ah, there are real toilets with real toilet paper: I don't need to use my left hand."

"Ah, I hope that cute dealer flashes...and I don't mean his card."

[kewlJ]

I did think that perhaps they googled me, saw some things which didn't strike their fancy (poker pro, running this forum, having a gambling related podcast, etc), and got rid of me for that reason.

I'm just wondering if anyone else has had an experience like this.

I highly doubt there is someone sitting at a computer in the pit (or even upstairs) that is googling everyone from their Id.

But I also feel like Druff isn't providing as much information as he can. And that is fine. He may have reasons to.

Personally I would like to know more about the "independent casino" comment. Are we talking Mohegan Sun (virgin), or Palms, T.I. or M resort that have no other sister type properties here in Vegas, or are we talking truly independent like Strat, F Bleu? Oh wait, is Strat associated with somebody like Az Charlie? I forget. How about Sahara? Anyway, would need to know Druff's definition of independent.

But on the other hand, no casino that relies heavily on database info is really independent.

I would also ask, any backoffs or heat anywhere recently? Or even in last year or two? If you play Vegas regularly, you will see pit folks that you recognize from other properties. They do move around, get laid off, take new jobs ect. especially when a new casino opens. I know a player that was backed off a place he thought he was good at only to discover someone in the pit that he had previously had a nasty backoff with at another casino. So THAT happens.

But to me, taking Druff at his word (and I do) and hoping he isn't leaving a major part of the story out, The thing that stands out most to me, is CSMs at every table except this one, where there was seemingly a good playable game. That is a bit of a red flag to me.

[The Boz]

I did think that perhaps they googled me, saw some things which didn't strike their fancy (poker pro, running this forum, having a gambling related podcast, etc), and got rid of me for that reason.

I'm just wondering if anyone else has had an experience like this.

I highly doubt there is someone sitting at a computer in the pit (or even upstairs) that is googling everyone from their Id.

But I also feel like Druff isn't providing as much information as he can. And that is fine. He may have reasons to.

Personally I would like to know more about the "independent casino" comment. Are we talking Mohegan Sun (virgin), or Palms, T.I. or M resort that have no other sister type properties here in Vegas, or are we talking truly independent like Strat, F Bleu? Oh wait, is Strat associated with somebody like Az Charlie? I forget. How about Sahara? Anyway, would need to know Druff's definition of independent.

But on the other hand, no casino that relies heavily on database info is really independent.

I would also ask, any backoffs or heat anywhere recently? Or even in last year or two? If you play Vegas regularly, you will see pit folks that you recognize from other properties. They do move around, get laid off, take new jobs ect. especially when a new casino opens. I know a player that was backed off a place he thought he was good at only to discover someone in the pit that he had previously had a nasty backoff with at another casino. So THAT happens.

But to me, taking Druff at his word (and I do) and hoping he isn't leaving a major part of the story out, The thing that stands out most to me, is CSMs at every table except this one, where there was seemingly a good playable game. That is a bit of a red flag to me.

Druff is good at leaving out the Paul Harvey portion (yea old reference) at times. But he usually reveals it later after comments. Not sure if he will in this case though.

I’m actually shocked you can’t figure out the casino from his clues. Granted with that description it wouldn’t be in your rotation, but I figured you visit them all occasionally to see if anything changed and keep a database.

[kewlJ]

Druff is good at leaving out the Paul Harvey portion (yea old reference) at times. But he usually reveals it later after comments. Not sure if he will in this case though.

I’m actually shocked you can’t figure out the casino from his clues. Granted with that description it wouldn’t be in your rotation, but I figured you visit them all occasionally to see if anything changed and keep a database.

I used to do a lot more "scouting" when I was playing the local circuit, playing 30+ casinos every month. I would make it a point to check out casinos that weren't in my rotation every 3 or 4 months just to see if anything changed (like whatever was keeping them from my rotation). I also relied on CBJN for that, but there is nothing like doing your own homework.

But last couple years, I don't play much of that local's circuit anymore. Still hit a few of the Station casinos now and then, but not much else that was in my rotation. Now I mostly play the strip on weekends and holidays. And I avoid the CSM heavy places, so I suspect this place mentioned isn't on my frequently visit list.

CSM are actually a tell to me. Forget all that garbage about how they save casinos money by eliminating down time. They are expensive to have and keep running (maintenance). And there is a segment of players beside card counters that just don't like playing them. So if a casino goes that route and is CSM heavy, that is just a major tell that they are sweaty and paranoid. Even if somehow a good playable game appears, look out.

Even if I don't know a casinos reputation, which I make it my business to know, I can figure out if they are likely to be playable or not (by my standards) before I ever play a hand.

And yes, I do have a couple ideas as to what casino it might be. It isn't super important. I just am hoping this trend, which like I said, occurs back east some, doesn't start becoming a thing here.

[redietz]

I did think that perhaps they googled me, saw some things which didn't strike their fancy (poker pro, running this forum, having a gambling related podcast, etc), and got rid of me for that reason.

I'm just wondering if anyone else has had an experience like this.

I highly doubt there is someone sitting at a computer in the pit (or even upstairs) that is googling everyone from their Id.

But I also feel like Druff isn't providing as much information as he can. And that is fine. He may have reasons to.

Personally I would like to know more about the "independent casino" comment. Are we talking Mohegan Sun (virgin), or Palms, T.I. or M resort that have no other sister type properties here in Vegas, or are we talking truly independent like Strat, F Bleu? Oh wait, is Strat associated with somebody like Az Charlie? I forget. How about Sahara? Anyway, would need to know Druff's definition of independent.

But on the other hand, no casino that relies heavily on database info is really independent.

I would also ask, any backoffs or heat anywhere recently? Or even in last year or two? If you play Vegas regularly, you will see pit folks that you recognize from other properties. They do move around, get laid off, take new jobs ect. especially when a new casino opens. I know a player that was backed off a place he thought he was good at only to discover someone in the pit that he had previously had a nasty backoff with at another casino. So THAT happens.

But to me, taking Druff at his word (and I do) and hoping he isn't leaving a major part of the story out, The thing that stands out most to me, is CSMs at every table except this one, where there was seemingly a good playable game. That is a bit of a red flag to me.

Druff is good at leaving out the Paul Harvey portion (yea old reference) at times. But he usually reveals it later after comments. Not sure if he will in this case though.

I’m actually shocked you can’t figure out the casino from his clues. Granted with that description it wouldn’t be in your rotation, but I figured you visit them all occasionally to see if anything changed and keep a database.

Why would any casino do this so early in a session? If they have Todd's personal profile on file, they have to know that he spends money on restaurants and such, so asking him to step away when he's betting $25 a hand is just costing them more money than they protect here.

Maybe the answers lie in, as someone said, the definition of "independent" or in, as you say, Paul Harvey's "the rest of the story."

[smurgerburger]

Maybe they backed him off specifically to protect their restaurant staffs.

[MisterV]

Maybe they backed him off specifically to protect their restaurant staffs.

Or their casino carpets.

He ain't a floor shitter like Karen, is he?

[Dan Druff]

I did think that perhaps they googled me, saw some things which didn't strike their fancy (poker pro, running this forum, having a gambling related podcast, etc), and got rid of me for that reason.

I'm just wondering if anyone else has had an experience like this.

I highly doubt there is someone sitting at a computer in the pit (or even upstairs) that is googling everyone from their Id.

But I also feel like Druff isn't providing as much information as he can. And that is fine. He may have reasons to.

Personally I would like to know more about the "independent casino" comment. Are we talking Mohegan Sun (virgin), or Palms, T.I. or M resort that have no other sister type properties here in Vegas, or are we talking truly independent like Strat, F Bleu? Oh wait, is Strat associated with somebody like Az Charlie? I forget. How about Sahara? Anyway, would need to know Druff's definition of independent.

But on the other hand, no casino that relies heavily on database info is really independent.

I would also ask, any backoffs or heat anywhere recently? Or even in last year or two? If you play Vegas regularly, you will see pit folks that you recognize from other properties. They do move around, get laid off, take new jobs ect. especially when a new casino opens. I know a player that was backed off a place he thought he was good at only to discover someone in the pit that he had previously had a nasty backoff with at another casino. So THAT happens.

But to me, taking Druff at his word (and I do) and hoping he isn't leaving a major part of the story out, The thing that stands out most to me, is CSMs at every table except this one, where there was seemingly a good playable game. That is a bit of a red flag to me.

I have mostly stopped playing blackjack for the past 17 or so years.

Eventually I realized that I became too well known in Vegas from poker, so it became too tough to play anonymously. Additionally, people deduced from knowing me that I likely wouldn't be playing -EV blackjack at middle-or-higher stakes, so it was easy to guess that I was counting. And by "people", I meant anyone who saw me at the table who knew of me -- including pit bosses and eye-in-the-sky employees.

So I gave it up, except in rare spots where I decided I didn't care if I was completely banned from the properties.

So to answer your question, no, I haven't been backed off in many years, and the backoff I got last week is the closest thing I've had to one in a long time.