Interesting situation at Norwegian Cruise Line casino

[Dan Druff]

A guy on a Facebook group posted the following story. I am paraphrasing it because he was a bad writer, and it was difficult to decipher:

"I bought into the casino $3k by charging to my stateroom, won a little, and cashed out my chips in cash. A day later, I again bought in for $3k by charging to my stateroom, broke about even, and again cashed out for cash. Two days later, I again bought in for $3k the same way, won about $2k, and tried to cash out for $5k cash. However, they refused to give me cash. They told me my options were to either receive a check by mail, or to have them take the $5k off the $9k I had charged to my stateroom to buy in. I've never experienced this before, and they absolutely would not give me cash at that point."

========

My theory:

One of three things happened here.

One possibility is that NCL has agreed with the US government to file suspicious activity reports (SAR) on customers acting suspiciously, and they knew they would have to file such a report if they gave this guy over $10k cash with limited casino play. Instead of hassling with the report, they simply refused to give him cash that third time.

OR

A second possibility is that they were concerned that he would stiff them at the end in some way. For example, before leaving the ship, he could cancel his credit card, and then make off with the cash.

OR

A third possibility is that they did not want to waste their limited onboard cash on someone who was buying in large via a room charge, not playing much, and then asking for the cash. Unlike land based casinos, they are likely NOT keeping cash to cover every chip in their casino.



It could also be a combination of one or more of the above.

It is unlikely they were concerned about the credit card fees, because they charge 3% for all room charged chips, so they're actually making a slight profit on that part of it.



Thoughts?

[Dan Druff]

On a side note, there were once two loopholes regarding cruise ship casinos (all cruise lines) which you could use to your advantage.

Loophole #1 involved the electronic poker machines (not video poker), where people could play poker against each other, but the entire thing was electronic with no dealer. Because the rake was so ridiculously high, they allowed you to buy in WITHOUT the 3% surcharge. However, you could cash out via cash if you wanted to. This allowed you to run up your stateroom account with 0% fee buyins, and then pay it via a credit card charge (which would be a purchase, not a cash advance), and earn you credit card points or miles. I took advantage of this in the 2000s, though I never went crazy with it. I always wondered at what point they'd limit me.

Loophole #2 involved "onboard credit". Many cruise promos would come with "onboard credit" which had to be used onboard, or you lose it. They did NOT restrict the casino, so if you didn't want to use the credit for anything, you could simply charge that amount to your room from the casino (at a slot machine), then simply hit the cashout button without playing. You would lose 3%, but otherwise you could convert it to cash. This would be useful where you'd get something like $500 onboard credit, and you could convert it to $485 cash.

Not sure if either of these work anymore, since I haven't been on a cruise in 8 years. I'm guessing at least #2 still works.

[kewlJ]

I have never played on a cruise ship. My understanding is that once they are at sea, they are under no jurisdiction so to speak and I don't trust that I would get a fair game. If you or someone else wants to convince me otherwise...good luck.

That said, I see nothing wrong with the cruise ships actions or policy. Why does the guy need to cash out at the end of every day? If he is going to play again the next day, why would he not just hold onto the chips? That he is charging to his room at buy in and cashing out over and over, seems like some kind of money laundering type scam. And you probably hit it right on the head. At the end of cruise, having charged 10-12 grand in chips to his room and cashed out, he is probably going to reneg on the bill in some manner. It is just highly suspicious as written.

[MisterV]

Let's see...player charges the chips to his ship account, which is tied to his Visa card.

Say he cashes out $3K for three nights in a row and keeps / pockets it.

He gets home and files bankruptcy, discharging all of the cruise related charges on his Visa.

[accountinquestion]

Let's see...player charges the chips to his ship account, which is tied to his Visa card.

Say he cashes out $3K for three nights in a row and keeps / pockets it.

He gets home and files bankruptcy, discharging all of the cruise related charges on his Visa.

Yea, that would be a version of #2.

Actually a cool thread ... Druffs the best at sniffing this stuff out.

[Dan Druff]

Let's see...player charges the chips to his ship account, which is tied to his Visa card.

Say he cashes out $3K for three nights in a row and keeps / pockets it.

He gets home and files bankruptcy, discharging all of the cruise related charges on his Visa.

I believe in such a case, the credit card company would be on the hook for the charges, not NCL. By the CC giving him credit, they're taking responsibility to cover what he charges. That's why when you stiff your credit card company, you owe them, not the individual merchants. I will admit I'm no expert on bankruptcy law, though, and perhaps there's an exception there.

However, if he cancels the card before leaving the ship, those charges would never make it to the card. NCL would simply be out the money, and the most they could do would be attempt to collect, sue him, and/or ban him.

[Dan Druff]

I have never played on a cruise ship. My understanding is that once they are at sea, they are under no jurisdiction so to speak and I don't trust that I would get a fair game. If you or someone else wants to convince me otherwise...good luck.

That said, I see nothing wrong with the cruise ships actions or policy. Why does the guy need to cash out at the end of every day? If he is going to play again the next day, why would he not just hold onto the chips? That he is charging to his room at buy in and cashing out over and over, seems like some kind of money laundering type scam. And you probably hit it right on the head. At the end of cruise, having charged 10-12 grand in chips to his room and cashed out, he is probably going to reneg on the bill in some manner. It is just highly suspicious as written.

I agree. The guy was either ignorant or pulling something.

I'm not saying the cruise line was unreasonable here. Their policy makes sense for various reasons.

[The Boz]

Other than hustling AP slots on a cruise ship, and in the rare situation, finding a shitty dealer there is no reason to even gamble on a cruise ship. Unless this guy found another opportunity, which I’m sure he thought he did. Oops

But let’s face it, it’s mostly white trash, boons and other suckers that don’t understand math that go on cruises. Very rarely will someone who understands travel opportunities find a cruise a better deal than traveling to the Islands they visit.

[accountinquestion]

But let’s face it, it’s mostly white trash, boons and other suckers that don’t understand math that go on cruises. Very rarely will someone who understands travel opportunities find a cruise a better deal than traveling to the Islands they visit.

?? I have been on 2 cruises. I did it for slots. THe first one was on Carnival and I was just curious. The 2nd time I took a friend + had casino rates and our average price was like $30 per day for each of us. I had the scoop on a good cruise for slots on trip #2. (my buddy had recently killed it) I had a router to rig WIFI to use multiple devices. We ate at the buffet (decent and passable). Did so little upcharges. It was cheaper than stateside living, TBH.

However, go out to drink at night or anything else and the upcharges add up really fast.

Carnival is the lowest of the cruises from what I gather. It was fun. I could see doing it again but I also had my fill. A different cruise line would be nice the next time. Yes I know I'm cheap. I saw 2 black kids fucking. God they must have been in their mid teens. Fucked up. Future parents too.

Anyway, point being - I can't imagine travel being much cheaper. Then do your own thing when you hit the island. So what are you meaning, Boz?

[MisterV]

We took Holland America on a glacier cruise through the inland passage: no way to see all the sights we saw other than by cruise ship.

Hoping to do the Med soon, using the ship as a floating hotel as we visit different ports: seems the best way to do it.

I've zero interest in visiting the island of the Caribbean.

[Dan Druff]

You need to understand cruising and what you want out of it, before taking one. If you don't come in with the proper knowledge and attitude, you will leave disappointed.

It isn't The Love Boat.

It isn't endless fun and thrills.

There's a lot of downtime where you might be bored while at sea, once the novelty of being on a giant ship wears off.

There's barely any single women, unless you're into ones over 70.

Cruises are good for a few things:

1) Getting to places which are difficult (islands) or impossible (Glacier Bay in Alaska) to get to with other modes of transportation

2) Seeing a lot of places within a short time, without the hassle of airports, driving, packing/unpacking, etc

3) Having a good value vacation where you get to see/do a lot without breaking the bank (that is... IF you do things correctly!)


However, there are some pitfalls to it:

1) Staterooms are tiny, and it's a disaster to put 3+ people in a small cabin

2) Claustrophobic feeling if you get an inside cabin

3) Annoying/obnoxious fellow cruisers

4) Customer service fails galore, mostly at the hands of very low paid third world employees with very little training

5) Poor value if you don't realize that pricing patterns work far differently on cruises than hotels or airlines

6) Poor value if you waste tons of extra $$ on board, or cheap out on the small upcharges which make the experience way better

7) Taking ship-run excursions at ports (which are awful), instead of arranging private things on your own

8) Taking a trashy line like Carnival, where the clientele is low class and unpleasant


With cruising, you can easily spend a lot of money and have a terrible time, and you can also spend relatively little money and have a great time. It's all about knowing what you're getting and adjusting your expectations accordingly.

[Dan Druff]

I figured out the NCL pricing system better than anyone alive, aside from the programmers that built it (and the executives who ordered it).

I basically reverse engineered the whole thing. I won't bother going into details. But I pretty much knew exactly how to recognize when the bottom prices were going to hit, and could grab dirt cheap rooms, and that's in addition to the casino discount I was already getting. I also knew their entire internal system and how to get the most out of it, regarding onboard things.

One time on an NCL cruise, they were getting errors redeeming my prepaid dining package, because we were doing it in a non-standard way, where only some in my party were using it, and others were paying a la carte. Anyway, nobody could figure out what the fuck was wrong, or how to fix it. I tried to explain, but nobody listened to me. It got all the way up to the top officer for Food and Beverage, and I explained it to her. I told her what to fix, and how to enter it into the computer system.

She had a shocked look on her face, and asked if I once worked for NCL. I told her I hadn't, but I just knew their system really well. She responded, "Well, you should come work here! You're the only person on board who knew how to do this!"

When I stopped cruising on NCL after 2017, I decided to dump a lot of my secrets online, so others could take advantage. All of it was legal -- just smart ways of doing things, and information about how everything worked.

[Dan Druff]

Like accountingquestion, it was important to me to be able to be connected while on cruises.

Predictably, people made fun of me about it online, asking why take a cruise if I'm going to be sitting on the internet.

I responded that there's a lot of downtime on cruises, and I'd rather sit on my balcony with a drink on the table and my laptop on my lap, doing my web browsing with an ocean view, than just staring off into the sun for hours on end. And it definitely beats hanging out on the deck with a bunch of strangers. I'd go to nice dinners, go out to do something at every port (usually things I pre-arranged before leaving), and do a few shipboard activities like karaoke. But I also liked to relax on the balcony with my laptop.

Like accountingquestion, I was able to rig the Wifi so everyone in my stateroom had simultaneous access to the internet, and also I was able to set up a VOIP phone to where I could make or receive calls while on board. They laughably tried to block Skype and similar services for awhile, but I had ways around that, too.

I think the "disconnect from everyone and everything" concept is overrated. You can relax and have fun, while also maintaining a connection to the familiar.

Two years ago, I spent a few days in a cabin in Stehekin, Washington. It's a unique inland town which can only be accessed by boat or helicopter. They purposely do not make internet access easy to visitors, and my cabin had none. That was the one thing which kinda sucked, because the town shut down at 8pm, and then I was sitting in the middle of nowhere, pitch black surrounding me, with no cell service and no internet. Perfect horror movie scene. I wasn't scared -- just a bit bored. During the day and early evening, though, it was a fun place, and I did lots of outdoorsy stuff, explored the area, took a boat on the lake, etc. Really enjoyed the visit, but would've been even better with wifi or cell service.

[Rob.Singer]

I agree with boz: cruises are a white trash thing so they can "brag". Casino machines are unregulated, and only dumbasses and addicts play them. The ships are overloaded with germs brought aboard and spread by every third world slug imaginable.

You wanna see the world--do it with dignity.

[jdaewoo]

Why isn't this retard making up more fake Ultimate X jackpots?

[jpfromla]

We took Holland America on a glacier cruise through the inland passage: no way to see all the sights we saw other than by cruise ship.

Hoping to do the Med soon, using the ship as a floating hotel as we visit different ports: seems the best way to do it.

I've zero interest in visiting the island of the Caribbean.

Just took Carnival Legend ten days out of Rome in September (yes, it was Carnival, but being international, few kids, older, better clientele). A lot of flyover Americans.
7 ports, all the way to Turkey.
Did our own excursions. A lot of walking.
Smaller ship - 2000, which was better, roomier than the 4000 size ships.
Food was ok. We were comped the steakhouse one day, and it was average. The baked potato was the size of my wife's first. Definitely, not sharing sides this time.
We went because my wife got an incredible bounce back from our prior Carnival cruise.
Total cost $249. Wife had $1000 fp, which they gave to her in cash. Balcony, wife had drinks everywhere (of course she doesn't drink, but I worked the system with her). I had drinks in the casino.
One good hack for me. I never used our room bathroom. Left it to my wife. In the morning I went to the spa workout area. They had lockers, steam, sauna, toilets and large, private showers, no fee. Used it every morning. It's next to the upcharge phoo, phoo spa. The only thing I used the bathroom for was to brush my teeth.

[mcap]

Seriously Dan,

Las Vegas Subforum?

Why even HAVE other subforums then?

[MisterV]

You wanna see the world--do it with dignity.

Easy for you to say, ensconced in a comfy captain's chair in a luxury RV.

Rob, think of how we "little people" are shamed by your elitist brag: after all, not all of us get to own a Newell.

Wait...never mind: NONE of us have owned a Newell.

[accountinquestion]

You wanna see the world--do it with dignity.

Easy for you to say, ensconced in a comfy captain's chair in a luxury RV.

Rob, think of how we "little people" are shamed by your elitist brag: after all, not all of us get to own a Newell.

Wait...never mind: NONE of us have owned a Newell.

The idea that singer at one point owned one ... but never took a picture of it or with it... but later on snuck into a dealership to take nervous poodle pictures trying to act casual is HOF stuff. If only kewl would put that much work into it.

[DGenBen]

Seriously Dan,

Las Vegas Subforum?

Why even HAVE other subforums then?

Nobody reads any of the other subforums so why get your knickers in a twist?