Professional Sportsbetting

[smurgerburger]

Pro gamblers are interested in making money

Being obsessed with money comes at a high price. Things you can't buy are more valuable than money.

The real measure of your wealth is how much you'd be worth if you lost all your money.

The money you pursue enslaves you. The more money a man has, the more he wants. Instead of filling a vacuum, it makes one.

All the money you made will never buy back your soul.

Or your time. That has always been my emphasis.

Or your health. Captain Morgan, rumors to the contrary, is not your friend.

Axelwolf also makes the strange and somewhat absurd argument that anyone can do what he does, so that makes him special. Not sure what to make of that, other than he likes to see himself as some King Midas. If that's what flips his switch, he should just write a book and share the wealth all at once and for everybody. A lot of bizarre contradictions. Anyone can do what he does, so he's special. And he's so magnanimous, but he needs to keep it a secret, except when he doesn't because he's so magnanimous.

Strange dude.

Bolded is the characteristic Dietzian misinterpretation.

[mickeycrimm]

Pro gamblers are interested in making money, not people's opinions about gambling terminology, and some supposed old winning track record from some con magazine.

Any third-party verifications of reality seem anathema to you. Not surprised.

At its peak, there were literally more than a hundred services recorded and monitored by "Tipsters or Gypsters?" Since clients of the services often used multiple services, it was literally impossible to cheat reporting-wise. People knew what the records were. The other services would have known what you had or had not done. There were also things at the time called Consensus Services which subscribed to multiple, sometimes dozens of services, and packaged and sold the plays to consumers much more cheaply than the services themselves. Again, the consensus services' records for the services they sold matched the records in "Tipsters or Gypsters?"

Axel acts like he doesn't know any of this, which is shocking, because Boz knows all this stuff and Boz works with Axel.

In addition, it's pretty hard to fake ATS records when you are on newsstands in literally a thousand locations prior to games being played, as with all of the classic tipsheets such as Playbook (Lawrence), or The Gold Sheet (Olshan), or Gridiron Report (Malinsky). So the idea that I or anyone could fake a record in Playbook is absurd.

But I appreciate all of the alleged "APs" deciding, after blackjack has dried up, video poker has dried up, tax laws make both tournament poker and video poker money pits, that "APs" are now sports betting experts. Munchkin no longer plays blackjack in LV (which kewlJ seems to not mention much). Dancer plans to retire end-of-year due to tax laws. So now multi-accounting bonus-whoring sports is the ticket. Well, once upon a time, it may have been, but it won't be tomorrow. Sports books have cleaned up their legal language and are within their rights to seize your money if you do this stuff. Check Munchkin's videos for the latest.

Good luck with it, guys. Multi-account all you like. Exploit others' names for bonuses all you like. Then make YouTube videos explaining how the books "ripped you off after you made millions."

Why are you dropping Munchkin’s name? You despise what he does. He’s a “Leonardo Da AP.” He’s beaten every game in the casino and is quoted saying “Every game in the casino can be beaten under the right conditions.” How about you tell Munchkin if he multi accounts, which he IS doing BTW, that they will take his money. He’ll laugh in your face.

[mickeycrimm]

Pro gamblers are interested in making money

Being obsessed with money comes at a high price. Things you can't buy are more valuable than money.

The real measure of your wealth is how much you'd be worth if you lost all your money.

The money you pursue enslaves you. The more money a man has, the more he wants. Instead of filling a vacuum, it makes one.

All the money you made will never buy back your soul.

Or your time. That has always been my emphasis.

Or your health. Captain Morgan, rumors to the contrary, is not your friend.

Axelwolf also makes the strange and somewhat absurd argument that anyone can do what he does, so that makes him special. Not sure what to make of that, other than he likes to see himself as some King Midas. If that's what flips his switch, he should just write a book and share the wealth all at once and for everybody. A lot of bizarre contradictions. Anyone can do what he does, so he's special. And he's so magnanimous, but he needs to keep it a secret, except when he doesn't because he's so magnanimous.

Strange dude.

Redietz is ignorant as to how ignorant he is.

[jdaewoo]

The retard

Found something that works (debatable, but let's give him the benefit of the doubt)
Thinks he's a fucking genius for finding it
Thinks nearly nobody else can do it
Thinks that nothing else works remotely as well (let alone better)

Tale as old as time

[Garnabby]

Being obsessed with money comes at a high price. Things you can't buy are more valuable than money.

The real measure of your wealth is how much you'd be worth if you lost all your money.

The money you pursue enslaves you. The more money a man has, the more he wants. Instead of filling a vacuum, it makes one.

All the money you made will never buy back your soul.

Or your time. That has always been my emphasis.

Or your health. Captain Morgan, rumors to the contrary, is not your friend.

Axelwolf also makes the strange and somewhat absurd argument that anyone can do what he does, so that makes him special. Not sure what to make of that, other than he likes to see himself as some King Midas. If that's what flips his switch, he should just write a book and share the wealth all at once and for everybody. A lot of bizarre contradictions. Anyone can do what he does, so he's special. And he's so magnanimous, but he needs to keep it a secret, except when he doesn't because he's so magnanimous.

Strange dude.

Bolded is the characteristic Dietzian misinterpretation.

Especially stupid

[Garnabby]

All the money you made will never buy back your soul.

---> Would You Believe? (Ray Charles album).

https://anagram-solver.net/All%20the....?partial=true





P.S. Them that got doesn't necessarily refer to money. Ha.

[accountinquestion]

Pro gamblers are interested in making money, not people's opinions about gambling terminology, and some supposed old winning track record from some con magazine.

Any third-party verifications of reality seem anathema to you. Not surprised.

At its peak, there were literally more than a hundred services recorded and monitored by "Tipsters or Gypsters?" Since clients of the services often used multiple services, it was literally impossible to cheat reporting-wise. People knew what the records were. The other services would have known what you had or had not done. There were also things at the time called Consensus Services which subscribed to multiple, sometimes dozens of services, and packaged and sold the plays to consumers much more cheaply than the services themselves. Again, the consensus services' records for the services they sold matched the records in "Tipsters or Gypsters?"

Axel acts like he doesn't know any of this, which is shocking, because Boz knows all this stuff and Boz works with Axel.

In addition, it's pretty hard to fake ATS records when you are on newsstands in literally a thousand locations prior to games being played, as with all of the classic tipsheets such as Playbook (Lawrence), or The Gold Sheet (Olshan), or Gridiron Report (Malinsky). So the idea that I or anyone could fake a record in Playbook is absurd.

But I appreciate all of the alleged "APs" deciding, after blackjack has dried up, video poker has dried up, tax laws make both tournament poker and video poker money pits, that "APs" are now sports betting experts. Munchkin no longer plays blackjack in LV (which kewlJ seems to not mention much). Dancer plans to retire end-of-year due to tax laws. So now multi-accounting bonus-whoring sports is the ticket. Well, once upon a time, it may have been, but it won't be tomorrow. Sports books have cleaned up their legal language and are within their rights to seize your money if you do this stuff. Check Munchkin's videos for the latest.

Good luck with it, guys. Multi-account all you like. Exploit others' names for bonuses all you like. Then make YouTube videos explaining how the books "ripped you off after you made millions."

Never heard of anyone calling themselves an AP from playing poker tournaments.. learn something new with redietz every day

[kewlJ]

Never heard of anyone calling themselves an AP from playing poker tournaments.. learn something new with redietz every day

What you learn about Redietz is just how angry and bitter he is, just like every other anti-APer on this forum. If someone were reading this forum for the first time, they would ask why is this guy so freaking angry with other players that play with an advantage and win? If he is doing something or has done something to make a profit good for him, but why is he so pissed at other that are doing so?

And that is always the tell with these anti-APers. I NEVER see an AP pissed at other APs that are doing something at an advantage to win, like these guys are.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Dietz says I never mentioned that Munchkin no longer plays blackjack. I don't talk much about Munchkin because I don't communicate with him much anymore. BUT I certainly have mentioned that Munchkin got involved with James and moved on from blackjack about 10 years ago. MOST APs that were card counting, moved on to bigger and better advantage plays in the last 15 years. Including some on this forum.

BUT that doesn't mean that blackjack dried up. It just means that most AP are chasing bigger edges (with less hassle). I have chosen to continue to play blackjack.

[mickeycrimm]

Pro gamblers are interested in making money, not people's opinions about gambling terminology, and some supposed old winning track record from some con magazine.

Any third-party verifications of reality seem anathema to you. Not surprised.

At its peak, there were literally more than a hundred services recorded and monitored by "Tipsters or Gypsters?" Since clients of the services often used multiple services, it was literally impossible to cheat reporting-wise. People knew what the records were. The other services would have known what you had or had not done. There were also things at the time called Consensus Services which subscribed to multiple, sometimes dozens of services, and packaged and sold the plays to consumers much more cheaply than the services themselves. Again, the consensus services' records for the services they sold matched the records in "Tipsters or Gypsters?"

Axel acts like he doesn't know any of this, which is shocking, because Boz knows all this stuff and Boz works with Axel.

In addition, it's pretty hard to fake ATS records when you are on newsstands in literally a thousand locations prior to games being played, as with all of the classic tipsheets such as Playbook (Lawrence), or The Gold Sheet (Olshan), or Gridiron Report (Malinsky). So the idea that I or anyone could fake a record in Playbook is absurd.

But I appreciate all of the alleged "APs" deciding, after blackjack has dried up, video poker has dried up, tax laws make both tournament poker and video poker money pits, that "APs" are now sports betting experts. Munchkin no longer plays blackjack in LV (which kewlJ seems to not mention much). Dancer plans to retire end-of-year due to tax laws. So now multi-accounting bonus-whoring sports is the ticket. Well, once upon a time, it may have been, but it won't be tomorrow. Sports books have cleaned up their legal language and are within their rights to seize your money if you do this stuff. Check Munchkin's videos for the latest.

Good luck with it, guys. Multi-account all you like. Exploit others' names for bonuses all you like. Then make YouTube videos explaining how the books "ripped you off after you made millions."

Here's the difference between you touts and AP's. YOU ARE SELLING OR TRYING TO SELL SOMETHING. AP'S ain't trying to sell anything.

You touts need a track record, even if it's phonied up, to sell to suckers. You make money off the suckers.

If some anonymous AP on the internet says he made 200K last year why the fuck would it mean a damn thing to you? You aren't winning or losing a dime because of it.

But if a tout runs rough on his picks then his suckers run even worse. You have the ability to hurt people financially. An anonymous AP bragging on the internet about how much he makes isn't hurting anyone.

[kewlJ]

If some anonymous AP on the internet says he made 200K last year why the fuck would it mean a damn thing to you? You aren't winning or losing a dime because of it.

But if a tout runs rough on his picks then his suckers run even worse. You have the ability to hurt people financially. An anonymous AP bragging on the internet about how much he makes isn't hurting anyone.

I want to comment on this because I am one of very few AP's that has talked about what they make on a yearly (average) basis. I don't see many other APs do that, and for good reason. I have never heard you give a figure what you make a year, mick. Nor Axelwolf, nor any other legitimate AP. I guess seedvalue did...we'll leave that go for now.

Now as to why I have done so, first I am at the lower end of what most full-time type APs make. And that makes sense since my primary play is something at a very slim advantage that you MUST grind at.

And I know me stating what I make or made rubbed a lot of people the wrong way. BUT my intention was anything but bragging. Again, I am on the lower end of what most APs make. The reason I did so, was because back when I started on forums, the movie "21" had just come out, along with 2 different books on that same MIT team's experiences. Additionally there were several popular blackjack teams, like the Church team that were posting what they were doing almost in real time. And you had people like KC, who were traveling around in his RV (a real RV) making big bucks.

The results was these players made it look like making 2, 3, 5 hundred thousand dollars as a card counter or part of a team was routine, when it was NOT. These types of players and teams were able to make good money but for relatively short periods of time. 6 months, maybe a year. KC's travels lasted almost 18 month, IIRC. And then they were done! At least making decent money from blackjack play. I refer this this approach as the "slaughter" approach, as in shear a sheep vs slaughter a sheep. Another popular term for this kind of play is "slash & burn".

Well I was engaging in the "shear" approach. I wanted to play for years, identifying levels of play and a style of play that were better tolerated and would allow for some longevity. So I started sharing what I was doing and what I was making to show what a real player playing for longevity can make. And that ceiling amount is about 100k. there are actually several different ways to play, with focus on longevity, one being the way I played for a decade really grinding (lots of hours) at what I call mid level stakes (max bet under $500) and a second approach which is to play less, a couple days a week, maybe 8 days a month at a little higher stakes, which is actually how I play now. A lot of card counters that traveled a lot played this way. 3-4 , 2-3 day trips a month. BUT guess what both sort of have the same ceiling 80, 90, 100k a year (average).

THAT is what I set out to show and share. What a card counter with an eye or priority on longevity could make. My sharing of what I make/made was anything but bragging. I wanted to counter this idea that had popped up that card counters could make 3,4,5 hundred K. I mean you can do that for maybe a year. (as time went on only months).

So I make no apologies for sharing my actual numbers. I think you probably understand why I did so, mickeycrimm, and it was anything but bragging.

[kewlJ]

This is also where EV comes into the equation for a card counter. 80, 90, 100k, is what you can get to EVwise. Actual results can and will be on either side of the curve. Which I have also shown by sharing my actual results.

Take this year. as of today, MY EV for blackjack for this year is 51k. I am running a little bit ahead of that in actual results or win. BUT most of this year I was running a little behind. The last 5-6 weekends plus an out of town trip have been good and pushed results slightly above expectation. The next couple months could be bad and fall below...who knows. BUT most years fall pretty close to expectation or EV. And of the few that don't fall close to EV and I have shared years significantly above as well as below, if you widen out and look at a 2-3 year total, it is always very close to EV.

Because that is what EV is. And that is the way the math works. Gambling is math! Blackjack and card counting is math. And the math doesn't lie! And that is why these "stories" that defy the math are offensive to me. As well as some dude like Dietz that doesn't seem to have a fucking clue what EV even is.

[accountinquestion]

Pro gamblers are interested in making money, not people's opinions about gambling terminology, and some supposed old winning track record from some con magazine.

Any third-party verifications of reality seem anathema to you. Not surprised.

At its peak, there were literally more than a hundred services recorded and monitored by "Tipsters or Gypsters?" Since clients of the services often used multiple services, it was literally impossible to cheat reporting-wise. People knew what the records were. The other services would have known what you had or had not done. There were also things at the time called Consensus Services which subscribed to multiple, sometimes dozens of services, and packaged and sold the plays to consumers much more cheaply than the services themselves. Again, the consensus services' records for the services they sold matched the records in "Tipsters or Gypsters?"

Axel acts like he doesn't know any of this, which is shocking, because Boz knows all this stuff and Boz works with Axel.

In addition, it's pretty hard to fake ATS records when you are on newsstands in literally a thousand locations prior to games being played, as with all of the classic tipsheets such as Playbook (Lawrence), or The Gold Sheet (Olshan), or Gridiron Report (Malinsky). So the idea that I or anyone could fake a record in Playbook is absurd.

But I appreciate all of the alleged "APs" deciding, after blackjack has dried up, video poker has dried up, tax laws make both tournament poker and video poker money pits, that "APs" are now sports betting experts. Munchkin no longer plays blackjack in LV (which kewlJ seems to not mention much). Dancer plans to retire end-of-year due to tax laws. So now multi-accounting bonus-whoring sports is the ticket. Well, once upon a time, it may have been, but it won't be tomorrow. Sports books have cleaned up their legal language and are within their rights to seize your money if you do this stuff. Check Munchkin's videos for the latest.

Good luck with it, guys. Multi-account all you like. Exploit others' names for bonuses all you like. Then make YouTube videos explaining how the books "ripped you off after you made millions."

Here's the difference between you touts and AP's. YOU ARE SELLING OR TRYING TO SELL SOMETHING. AP'S ain't trying to sell anything.

You touts need a track record, even if it's phonied up, to sell to suckers. You make money off the suckers.

If some anonymous AP on the internet says he made 200K last year why the fuck would it mean a damn thing to you? You aren't winning or losing a dime because of it.

But if a tout runs rough on his picks then his suckers run even worse. You have the ability to hurt people financially. An anonymous AP bragging on the internet about how much he makes isn't hurting anyone.

Yea, but we're the bad guys because we dry up bonus opportunities and take advantage of friends and family who'd never gotten the money otherwise.

Mdawg has that big list of Kewl lies. We could easily make a list of misrepresentations and misunderstandings from Redietz that would give kewl a bit of a run for the money.

Whether you belive Kewl or not - he isn't really trying to mislead in a way that hurts them. Although I suppose someone could move to LV to count after taking inspiration frmo him .. or think they'll get sports betting bonus offers that no one else get. It is rubbish. Mick spells it out above.

I once pushed and pushed Redietz as to why is it in an AP's interest to put their name out there. His answer was literally for "opportunities". As if anything but a handful of AP types have dreams of having a movie made after them. I've heard the card counting woman... I forget her name but all the APs would know who I'm talking about. I've heard she has aspirations because she chunked off all her $$ supposedly playing big NL at bellagio at a game with "no pros" or whatever. She was likely a gambling addict and thats how she even got into the game to begin with although she tells the tale somewhere but I forget. This is the only AP I've ever heard of that wants to be famous and thats because she wasted all her $$ she made when it was far easier to make. gamblerx or maybe rxgamble. whatever. Here you have an attractive woman who worked some of hte more interesting angles in APs and I've yet to see any movie.

The truth is Redietz wants leverage to silence people.

[accountinquestion]

And if many people seriously invest in Redietz and also read this forum then it is a really bad look. It is insanity for him to attack APs on here. Some of the most knowledable gamblers in the world. Literally. Sure they don't geek out knowing every little thing about football but no one cares either. THey just want the money.

I want to feel sorry for Redietz but he just can't help himself. His bitterness inspired arrogance is beyond his ability to control.

[kewlJ]

Whether you belive Kewl or not - he isn't really trying to mislead in a way that hurts them. Although I suppose someone could move to LV to count after taking inspiration frmo him .. or think they'll get sports betting bonus offers that no one else get. It is rubbish. Mick spells it out above.

I think someone DID move to LV to count cards after taking inspiration from me. Someone on this very forum. And guess what, he has done well, despite his own following of haters.

AND there have been a few others that I don't know if they moved to LV, but definitely pursued card counting because of me sharing my journey. And some of them didn't fair as well. But if they busted out, didn't have the mentality that it takes, had major holes in their game, I take no responsibility for that. I NEVER told or even encouraged anyone to follow in my footsteps.

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AinQ, stop repeating Mdawgs talking points. Be better than that. Be normal, like you used to be. Mdawgs list of lies is a list of things he doesn't believe 99% with no proof. (actually I think he does believe most) There are or were things on that list about where I went to school and for how long, whether or not I surfed as kid, living near Daytona Beach. Whether I have a brother for God sakes.

Seriously AinQ...be better than this.

[accountinquestion]

Whether you belive Kewl or not - he isn't really trying to mislead in a way that hurts them. Although I suppose someone could move to LV to count after taking inspiration frmo him .. or think they'll get sports betting bonus offers that no one else get. It is rubbish. Mick spells it out above.

I think someone DID move to LV to count cards after taking inspiration from me. Someone on this very forum. And guess what, he has done well, despite his own following of haters.

AND there have been a few others that I don't know if they moved to LV, but definitely pursued card counting because of me sharing my journey. And some of them didn't fair as well. But if they busted out, didn't have the mentality that it takes, had major holes in their game, I take no responsibility for that. I NEVER told or even encouraged anyone to follow in my footsteps.

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AinQ, stop repeating Mdawgs talking points. Be better than that. Be normal, like you used to be. Mdawgs list of lies is a list of things he doesn't believe 99% with no proof. (actually I think he does believe most) There are or were things on that list about where I went to school and for how long, whether or not I surfed as kid, living near Daytona Beach. Whether I have a brother for God sakes.

Seriously AinQ...be better than this.

Zenking I assume? If not him then whom?

[AxelWolf]

Axel acts like he doesn't know any of this, which is shocking, because Boz knows all this stuff and Boz works with Axel.

You really should get your facts straight. I have met up and hung out with Boz and made a few plays with Boz in the past, and consider him a friend. It's been a long time since we've found the right opportunity to do any business together.

Boz is a straight shooter, and I respect his opinion.

One would have to ask him to clarify, but it's of my opinion that his opinion on all these sports tout/investor/verification Publications is all a big scammy pile of BS.

Didn't we just have someone on here who you touted as knowledgeable regarding tipsters and dipsters who ended up saying it was all bullshit? And then of course you guys claimed it was a KJ souckpuppet which was clearly not true?

[AxelWolf]

Red says, "Bonuses don't/won't last."

25 years later, and then



Sports bonuses will be gone when betting on sports is gone.

[MDawg]

You’re going into these elaborate logic chains that aren’t ALL that different from saying you couldn’t possibly count cards for a living in Las Vegas for over a decade….

[AxelWolf]

Pro gamblers are interested in making money

Being obsessed with money comes at a high price. Hopefully exoticThings you can't buy are more valuable than money.

The real measure of your wealth is how much you'd be worth if you lost all your money.

The money you pursue enslaves you. The more money a man has, the more he wants. Instead of filling a vacuum, it makes one.

All the money you made will never buy back your soul.

Ok, Schopenhauer. Why don't you try getting your own material?

I'm certainly not obsessed with money, as I have given up a fuckton to enjoy doing things that I want to avoid things I don't want to do. I also retired way earlier than I should have. I guess I really only semi-retired. I'll put in a few months a year on good promotion, offers, and some online stuff.

How do you measure one's worth? That seems very subjective. My friends, my wife, and my family would have to be the judges of that. I'm confident I would fare very well in that department.

Come on, man, this is all just someone else's philosophical mumbo jumbo. Sure, some of these things might be true for some people, some of the time, but it certainly isn't true for everyone all the time.

Oh, and if I lost everything and was suddenly broke, I would/could just go make more money. I've already proved that.

I'm fairly certain that if I were motivated enough, I could make $1,000 with no bankroll.

I don't believe in a soul, God, or any bullshit higher power stuff.

The fact is, we are here talking about professional gambling/sports, and so yeah, it matters how much money someone who is making when they make claims of how many Sports picks they win/won and their records, Etc.

[coach belly]

if I lost everything and was suddenly broke, I would/could just go make more money. I've already proved that.

I'm fairly certain that if I were motivated enough, I could make $1,000 with no bankroll.

I'm fairly certain that you've proven my point...

The real measure of your wealth is how much you'd be worth if you lost all your money.

The money you pursue enslaves you.

It's not surprising that you don't believe in a soul, or even understand what that means.

You're entire worth is predicated on a soulless participation in a solved game, without an opponent.

No thought, no opinion, minimal effort...just mindless button-pushing like some rat in a cage in search of a treat.

It's likely that you wouldn't have any relationships if not for the money you chase.