Will they adjust pay tables in 2026?

[MisterV]

The only "proof" AIQ can muster up is in the 750 ml bottle of Sazerac Taaka Vodka he sucks down to give him the "courage" to tangle with forum posters.

Lol at knowing the distillery that makes Taaka. I mean every person who has spent much time in an average bar knows what Taaka is but few of them outside of Kentucky or whatever the fuck would know the specific distillery's name.

We finally found what MisterV uses his brain cells on. lol.Incredible.

I'm a teetotaler, having not touched alcohol since last century.

Being out of the booze loop I googled up "cheapest vodka in Las Vegas" as I assumed that would be your poison: I'd never heard of this brand but boy is it cheap.

"Down the hatch and threw the gums...who the hell needs brain cells, anyway?"

[DGenBen]

CTRs & SARs get reported to the Financial Crimes Enforcement Network (FinCEN) not to the IRS. This is where structuring crimes come in.

Obviously the IRS can view them and regularly does, but usually only if something initiates it, like a tax evasion investigation.

W2Gs only get reported to the IRS. FinCEN can view these also as both FinCEN & the IRS are agencies of the US Treasury Department, but there is less overlap here than with the CTRs & SARs because FinCENs job is to investigate financial crimes & money laundering while the IRSes job is revenue.

Do people who get prosecuted for structuring usually start off being investigated for financial crimes and money laundering?

Or do they actually go after people purely for structuring in the first place? (I know that they can but I'm wondering if it actually works that way.)

They used to go after people purely for structuring but this caused a lot of problems.

Cash businesses would often have a limit from their insurance companies often around $10,000 or cash would no longer be covered so business owners would frequently deposit cash to keep from having $10,000 on hand in amounts of say $8,000 or $9,000 etc. regularly.

Also your everyday public is under the impression that something bad will happen to you if you try to deposit more than $10,000 & they get bad advice sometimes even from bank tellers themselves so they make multiple deposits just under $10,000 thinking it will help them avoid problems.

A few years back there were a lot of stories about the above happening and innocent people getting their money seized & having to fight criminal charges.

Around this time, someone high up in the government I don’t recall who, changed policy that these agencies were to no longer go after sole structuring crimes UNLESS there was some other type of underlying crime involved,

[smurgerburger]

CTRs & SARs get reported to the Financial Crimes Enforcement Network (FinCEN) not to the IRS. This is where structuring crimes come in.

Obviously the IRS can view them and regularly does, but usually only if something initiates it, like a tax evasion investigation.

W2Gs only get reported to the IRS. FinCEN can view these also as both FinCEN & the IRS are agencies of the US Treasury Department, but there is less overlap here than with the CTRs & SARs because FinCENs job is to investigate financial crimes & money laundering while the IRSes job is revenue.

Do people who get prosecuted for structuring usually start off being investigated for financial crimes and money laundering?

Or do they actually go after people purely for structuring in the first place? (I know that they can but I'm wondering if it actually works that way.)

They used to go after people purely for structuring but this caused a lot of problems.

Cash businesses would often have a limit from their insurance companies often around $10,000 or cash would no longer be covered so business owners would frequently deposit cash to keep from having $10,000 on hand in amounts of say $8,000 or $9,000 etc. regularly.

Also your everyday public is under the impression that something bad will happen to you if you try to deposit more than $10,000 & they get bad advice sometimes even from bank tellers themselves so they make multiple deposits just under $10,000 thinking it will help them avoid problems.

A few years back there were a lot of stories about the above happening and innocent people getting their money seized & having to fight criminal charges.

Around this time, someone high up in the government I don’t recall who, changed policy that these agencies were to no longer go after sole structuring crimes UNLESS there was some other type of underlying crime involved,

Thanks. May I ask how you came to know all this?

[accountinquestion]

"Down the hatch and threw the gums...who the hell needs brain cells, anyway?"

You and Kewl.

[mickeycrimm]

The entire Illinois Video Lottery is structured to never issue a W2G. It's Class III gaming. It's sanctioned by the state which takes a 30% tax off the win of every machine. The slot route operators own the machines and lease them to the bars, restaurants, gas stations, stand alones, for 35% of the win. That means the businesses get 35% of the win but have to pay all the overhead. Each business is allowed 5 machines. There are over 7000 locations in the state. So over 35,000 machines. There are cash out kiosks at every location so employee's have no interaction with the gamblers.

The max bet is $4 and max line pay is $1199. Here is an example of what is different in the Illinois Video Lottery from every other jurisdiction in the country. Take the game in the pic below, Wold Run Eclipse. Say you are betting $4 per spin. And let's say you hit the 101 Mega Free Games. Those games have an average value of 12 units per spin. So if you are lucky enough to hit them you are going to rack up somewhere around 1200 units. Since you are betting $4 you will rack up somewhere around $5,000. When you are finished with the spins the machine will lock up for a handpay. That's because the total of money won on the free spins is attributed to the spin that won the free games. But not in the Illinois Video Lottery.

Because in the Illinois Video Lottery the "Free Games" are not really free. You are charged either 1 penny or 1 nickel per "free spin" depending on the game but paid per the $4 payscale. That makes all the "free spins" independent of each other. And since the max line pay is $1199 there are no W2G's involved.

I actually seen a person hit the 100 free games on Wolf Run Eclipse, rack up $5000 then cash the ticket as accumulated credits in the kiosk.

The Illinois Video Lottery was one of my honey holes for years because there were a lot of exploitable video games. But eventually other AP's caught on and the competition means the money ain't so great anymore.

So this structuring in Illinois has been going on for about 10 years or so and the IRS has permitted it. If they allow it in Illinois there shouldn't be anything stopping casinos in other states from doing it. Why they don't is beyond me.

[DGenBen]

Do people who get prosecuted for structuring usually start off being investigated for financial crimes and money laundering?

Or do they actually go after people purely for structuring in the first place? (I know that they can but I'm wondering if it actually works that way.)

They used to go after people purely for structuring but this caused a lot of problems.

Cash businesses would often have a limit from their insurance companies often around $10,000 or cash would no longer be covered so business owners would frequently deposit cash to keep from having $10,000 on hand in amounts of say $8,000 or $9,000 etc. regularly.

Also your everyday public is under the impression that something bad will happen to you if you try to deposit more than $10,000 & they get bad advice sometimes even from bank tellers themselves so they make multiple deposits just under $10,000 thinking it will help them avoid problems.

A few years back there were a lot of stories about the above happening and innocent people getting their money seized & having to fight criminal charges.

Around this time, someone high up in the government I don’t recall who, changed policy that these agencies were to no longer go after sole structuring crimes UNLESS there was some other type of underlying crime involved,

Thanks. May I ask how you came to know all this?

Sure, because I’m a fed that monitors sites like this for money laundering and tax evasion.

Kidding of course.

Actually when I first started doing this & having a little success I was paranoid about cash deposits & taxes since I knew nothing about how larger cash deposits worked or taxes on gambling. But I had seen news stories of people wrongfully getting cash seized in traffic stops and things like that.

So the first thing I did was do a lot of reading on gambling taxes & the legality of cash deposits mostly online but read a book or two also like Tax Help for Gamblers by Jean Scott.

And that’s where I came across all of this stuff.

[smurgerburger]

They used to go after people purely for structuring but this caused a lot of problems.

Cash businesses would often have a limit from their insurance companies often around $10,000 or cash would no longer be covered so business owners would frequently deposit cash to keep from having $10,000 on hand in amounts of say $8,000 or $9,000 etc. regularly.

Also your everyday public is under the impression that something bad will happen to you if you try to deposit more than $10,000 & they get bad advice sometimes even from bank tellers themselves so they make multiple deposits just under $10,000 thinking it will help them avoid problems.

A few years back there were a lot of stories about the above happening and innocent people getting their money seized & having to fight criminal charges.

Around this time, someone high up in the government I don’t recall who, changed policy that these agencies were to no longer go after sole structuring crimes UNLESS there was some other type of underlying crime involved,

Thanks. May I ask how you came to know all this?

Sure, because I’m a fed that monitors sites like this for money laundering and tax evasion.

Kidding of course.

Actually when I first started doing this & having a little success I was paranoid about cash deposits & taxes since I knew nothing about how larger cash deposits worked or taxes on gambling. But I had seen news stories of people wrongfully getting cash seized in traffic stops and things like that.

So the first thing I did was do a lot of reading on gambling taxes & the legality of cash deposits mostly online but read a book or two also like Tax Help for Gamblers by Jean Scott.

And that’s where I came across all of this stuff.

Thanks I was just curious. Thought maybe you had worked in retail banking.

[accountinquestion]

The entire Illinois Video Lottery is structured to never issue a W2G. It's Class III gaming. It's sanctioned by the state which takes a 30% tax off the win of every machine. The slot route operators own the machines and lease them to the bars, restaurants, gas stations, stand alones, for 35% of the win. That means the businesses get 35% of the win but have to pay all the overhead. Each business is allowed 5 machines. There are over 7000 locations in the state. So over 35,000 machines. There are cash out kiosks at every location so employee's have no interaction with the gamblers.

The max bet is $4 and max line pay is $1199. Here is an example of what is different in the Illinois Video Lottery from every other jurisdiction in the country. Take the game in the pic below, Wold Run Eclipse. Say you are betting $4 per spin. And let's say you hit the 101 Mega Free Games. Those games have an average value of 12 units per spin. So if you are lucky enough to hit them you are going to rack up somewhere around 1200 units. Since you are betting $4 you will rack up somewhere around $5,000. When you are finished with the spins the machine will lock up for a handpay. That's because the total of money won on the free spins is attributed to the spin that won the free games. But not in the Illinois Video Lottery.

Because in the Illinois Video Lottery the "Free Games" are not really free. You are charged either 1 penny or 1 nickel per "free spin" depending on the game but paid per the $4 payscale. That makes all the "free spins" independent of each other. And since the max line pay is $1199 there are no W2G's involved.

I actually seen a person hit the 100 free games on Wolf Run Eclipse, rack up $5000 then cash the ticket as accumulated credits in the kiosk.

The Illinois Video Lottery was one of my honey holes for years because there were a lot of exploitable video games. But eventually other AP's caught on and the competition means the money ain't so great anymore.

So this structuring in Illinois has been going on for about 10 years or so and the IRS has permitted it. If they allow it in Illinois there shouldn't be anything stopping casinos in other states from doing it. Why they don't is beyond me.

Solid information and very interesting. Seems like something a lot of slot manufacturers should do but it might just cause people to be upset over the .01 per free spin.

Instead of free spins call them "penny spins"? Easy-peasy.

[DGenBen]

The entire Illinois Video Lottery is structured to never issue a W2G. It's Class III gaming. It's sanctioned by the state which takes a 30% tax off the win of every machine. The slot route operators own the machines and lease them to the bars, restaurants, gas stations, stand alones, for 35% of the win. That means the businesses get 35% of the win but have to pay all the overhead. Each business is allowed 5 machines. There are over 7000 locations in the state. So over 35,000 machines. There are cash out kiosks at every location so employee's have no interaction with the gamblers.

The max bet is $4 and max line pay is $1199. Here is an example of what is different in the Illinois Video Lottery from every other jurisdiction in the country. Take the game in the pic below, Wold Run Eclipse. Say you are betting $4 per spin. And let's say you hit the 101 Mega Free Games. Those games have an average value of 12 units per spin. So if you are lucky enough to hit them you are going to rack up somewhere around 1200 units. Since you are betting $4 you will rack up somewhere around $5,000. When you are finished with the spins the machine will lock up for a handpay. That's because the total of money won on the free spins is attributed to the spin that won the free games. But not in the Illinois Video Lottery.

Because in the Illinois Video Lottery the "Free Games" are not really free. You are charged either 1 penny or 1 nickel per "free spin" depending on the game but paid per the $4 payscale. That makes all the "free spins" independent of each other. And since the max line pay is $1199 there are no W2G's involved.

I actually seen a person hit the 100 free games on Wolf Run Eclipse, rack up $5000 then cash the ticket as accumulated credits in the kiosk.

The Illinois Video Lottery was one of my honey holes for years because there were a lot of exploitable video games. But eventually other AP's caught on and the competition means the money ain't so great anymore.

So this structuring in Illinois has been going on for about 10 years or so and the IRS has permitted it. If they allow it in Illinois there shouldn't be anything stopping casinos in other states from doing it. Why they don't is beyond me.

Good stuff!

I am guessing the reason more places don’t do this any more is slot players today are just too unsophisticated to understand it so its not a priority for casinos or manufacturers.

I forgot the details, I’m sure I could find them if I really tried but there was a high limit game that came out a couple of years ago that attempted to do just this,

If you won a wheel spin you very virtually guaranteed to get $3,000. But to avoid W2Gs when you got the wheel feature you would get 3 wheel spins that you had to pay for separately but all spaces were $1,000 and one space which would land very rarely was $100.

I saw it installed at a few places and then no one was ever playing it probably because they didn’t understand it and it was quickly removed.

I’m sure I have some of the details wrong but the gist of the story I’m sure is correct.

I remember looking at it to see if it was APable if someone hit the spins but cashed out before paying for the other spins and I don’t recall what I found out other than I didn’t see any opportunity

[accountinquestion]

The entire Illinois Video Lottery is structured to never issue a W2G. It's Class III gaming. It's sanctioned by the state which takes a 30% tax off the win of every machine. The slot route operators own the machines and lease them to the bars, restaurants, gas stations, stand alones, for 35% of the win. That means the businesses get 35% of the win but have to pay all the overhead. Each business is allowed 5 machines. There are over 7000 locations in the state. So over 35,000 machines. There are cash out kiosks at every location so employee's have no interaction with the gamblers.

The max bet is $4 and max line pay is $1199. Here is an example of what is different in the Illinois Video Lottery from every other jurisdiction in the country. Take the game in the pic below, Wold Run Eclipse. Say you are betting $4 per spin. And let's say you hit the 101 Mega Free Games. Those games have an average value of 12 units per spin. So if you are lucky enough to hit them you are going to rack up somewhere around 1200 units. Since you are betting $4 you will rack up somewhere around $5,000. When you are finished with the spins the machine will lock up for a handpay. That's because the total of money won on the free spins is attributed to the spin that won the free games. But not in the Illinois Video Lottery.

Because in the Illinois Video Lottery the "Free Games" are not really free. You are charged either 1 penny or 1 nickel per "free spin" depending on the game but paid per the $4 payscale. That makes all the "free spins" independent of each other. And since the max line pay is $1199 there are no W2G's involved.

I actually seen a person hit the 100 free games on Wolf Run Eclipse, rack up $5000 then cash the ticket as accumulated credits in the kiosk.

The Illinois Video Lottery was one of my honey holes for years because there were a lot of exploitable video games. But eventually other AP's caught on and the competition means the money ain't so great anymore.

So this structuring in Illinois has been going on for about 10 years or so and the IRS has permitted it. If they allow it in Illinois there shouldn't be anything stopping casinos in other states from doing it. Why they don't is beyond me.

Good stuff!

I am guessing the reason more places don’t do this any more is slot players today are just too unsophisticated to understand it so its not a priority for casinos or manufacturers.

I forgot the details, I’m sure I could find them if I really tried but there was a high limit game that came out a couple of years ago that attempted to do just this,

If you won a wheel spin you very virtually guaranteed to get $3,000. But to avoid W2Gs when you got the wheel feature you would get 3 wheel spins that you had to pay for separately but all spaces were $1,000 and one space which would land very rarely was $100.

I saw it installed at a few places and then no one was ever playing it probably because they didn’t understand it and it was quickly removed.

I’m sure I have some of the details wrong but the gist of the story I’m sure is correct.

I remember looking at it to see if it was APable if someone hit the spins but cashed out before paying for the other spins and I don’t recall what I found out other than I didn’t see any opportunity

But when you lose $10k a year then have to pay taxes on $9k it tends to stick with you and get you off gambling. I was talking to an ex of mine a bit ago and apparently her husband is very anti-government. She told me how she thought we'd get along - lol. Apparently it all came from "some sort of jackpot he won at the casino" which was taxed later.

So while I don't disagree with you I do think it has the ability to really turn people off from slots.

I mean if you are much of a slot player and you have to deal with W2Gs every year ... it really is signficant.

Although I suppose you'd need the majority of manufacturers to be on for it to make a big difference. If I was CEO type though I'd seriously go down this rabbithole though of "Penny spins". Great pitch for your brand to casino reps.

[DGenBen]

The entire Illinois Video Lottery is structured to never issue a W2G. It's Class III gaming. It's sanctioned by the state which takes a 30% tax off the win of every machine. The slot route operators own the machines and lease them to the bars, restaurants, gas stations, stand alones, for 35% of the win. That means the businesses get 35% of the win but have to pay all the overhead. Each business is allowed 5 machines. There are over 7000 locations in the state. So over 35,000 machines. There are cash out kiosks at every location so employee's have no interaction with the gamblers.

The max bet is $4 and max line pay is $1199. Here is an example of what is different in the Illinois Video Lottery from every other jurisdiction in the country. Take the game in the pic below, Wold Run Eclipse. Say you are betting $4 per spin. And let's say you hit the 101 Mega Free Games. Those games have an average value of 12 units per spin. So if you are lucky enough to hit them you are going to rack up somewhere around 1200 units. Since you are betting $4 you will rack up somewhere around $5,000. When you are finished with the spins the machine will lock up for a handpay. That's because the total of money won on the free spins is attributed to the spin that won the free games. But not in the Illinois Video Lottery.

Because in the Illinois Video Lottery the "Free Games" are not really free. You are charged either 1 penny or 1 nickel per "free spin" depending on the game but paid per the $4 payscale. That makes all the "free spins" independent of each other. And since the max line pay is $1199 there are no W2G's involved.

I actually seen a person hit the 100 free games on Wolf Run Eclipse, rack up $5000 then cash the ticket as accumulated credits in the kiosk.

The Illinois Video Lottery was one of my honey holes for years because there were a lot of exploitable video games. But eventually other AP's caught on and the competition means the money ain't so great anymore.

So this structuring in Illinois has been going on for about 10 years or so and the IRS has permitted it. If they allow it in Illinois there shouldn't be anything stopping casinos in other states from doing it. Why they don't is beyond me.

Good stuff!

I am guessing the reason more places don’t do this any more is slot players today are just too unsophisticated to understand it so its not a priority for casinos or manufacturers.

I forgot the details, I’m sure I could find them if I really tried but there was a high limit game that came out a couple of years ago that attempted to do just this,

If you won a wheel spin you very virtually guaranteed to get $3,000. But to avoid W2Gs when you got the wheel feature you would get 3 wheel spins that you had to pay for separately but all spaces were $1,000 and one space which would land very rarely was $100.

I saw it installed at a few places and then no one was ever playing it probably because they didn’t understand it and it was quickly removed.

I’m sure I have some of the details wrong but the gist of the story I’m sure is correct.

I remember looking at it to see if it was APable if someone hit the spins but cashed out before paying for the other spins and I don’t recall what I found out other than I didn’t see any opportunity

But when you lose $10k a year then have to pay taxes on $9k it tends to stick with you and get you off gambling. I was talking to an ex of mine a bit ago and apparently her husband is very anti-government. She told me how she thought we'd get along - lol. Apparently it all came from "some sort of jackpot he won at the casino" which was taxed later.

So while I don't disagree with you I do think it has the ability to really turn people off from slots.

I mean if you are much of a slot player and you have to deal with W2Gs every year ... it really is signficant.

Although I suppose you'd need the majority of manufacturers to be on for it to make a big difference. If I was CEO type though I'd seriously go down this rabbithole though of "Penny spins". Great pitch for your brand to casino reps.

All very good points but since most people lose & many people use a tax preparer for taxes I don’t think taxes on W2Gs is something most people worry about.

I do understand they can screw up deductions and AGI too, but when I was a pure degenerate losing gambler I just didn’t care about tax consequences of W2gs. It was just a cost of (not doing business) but entertainment.

And you also have to remember that people that would generate a lot of W2gs playing slot machines that average 85-90% payback are not rational financial actors to begin with.

[accountinquestion]

And you also have to remember that people that would generate a lot of W2gs playing slot machines that average 85-90% payback are not rational financial actors to begin with.

I'm trying to lay low because I claim I died in another thread but well ... I lied. Shhhhhh. No one likes a liar.

Regarding slot degens - they may not be rational actors but when tax season comes along and you're already in debt on CCs and living paycheck to paycheck like your basic degenerate with little self control then you're going to have to come up with that money. It'll sting. The entertainment aspect is gone. THere is no current gambling high working against the pain of paying. All you know is you owe $1000 on money you already lost. You could have lost $50k and owe the tax man $30k. You know how the numbers work. It really is a crazy thing. Casino industry would help themselves taking a more holistic approach to that with PENNY SPINS !

I really suspect W2-Gs are more sigifcant reason people stop gambling than you realize. When you had to pay a tax on money you lost?...

Speaking of slots. In my state there are bars that basically based around slots. It is crazy. My parents were both hospitalized so I'm spending a lot of time at their house outside of the basement. So I've been to their neighborhood bar. Most of the women smoke and 80% are considerably overweight. Instead of going to LV and losing $500-$1k they lose $100 every night of the week... I used to want to get into that business but didn't have the capital. Geez the owner must kill it. These people going to be a burden on healthcare and need government help when they can no longer work. As trump would say piggy piggy piggy.

[DGenBen]

And you also have to remember that people that would generate a lot of W2gs playing slot machines that average 85-90% payback are not rational financial actors to begin with.

I'm trying to lay low because I claim I died in another thread but well ... I lied. Shhhhhh. No one likes a liar.

Regarding slot degens - they may not be rational actors but when tax season comes along and you're already in debt on CCs and living paycheck to paycheck like your basic degenerate with little self control then you're going to have to come up with that money. It'll sting. The entertainment aspect is gone. THere is no current gambling high working against the pain of paying. All you know is you owe $1000 on money you already lost. You could have lost $50k and owe the tax man $30k. You know how the numbers work. It really is a crazy thing. Casino industry would help themselves taking a more holistic approach to that with PENNY SPINS !

I really suspect W2-Gs are more sigifcant reason people stop gambling than you realize. When you had to pay a tax on money you lost?...

Speaking of slots. In my state there are bars that basically based around slots. It is crazy. My parents were both hospitalized so I'm spending a lot of time at their house outside of the basement. So I've been to their neighborhood bar. Most of the women smoke and 80% are considerably overweight. Instead of going to LV and losing $500-$1k they lose $100 every night of the week... I used to want to get into that business but didn't have the capital. Geez the owner must kill it. These people going to be a burden on healthcare and need government help when they can no longer work. As trump would say piggy piggy piggy.

My main point was losing gamblers do not pay taxes on money they lost.

When you have a W2G(s)and you lost on gambling for the year the W2G(s) is issued you do not pay taxes on that W2G(s).

Even with the 90% loss deduction cap coming next year it will not affect most recreational gamblers.

It will look something like this for most rec gamblers:

Total 2026 W2Gs $20,000.

Total 2026 actual losses: $25,000 total. Actual losses with 90% deduction cap adjustment = max deduction adjustment $22,500

Gambling losses can only be deducted to the extent of wins so $20,000 of wins is written off with $22,500 of losses but capped at the win amount so $20,000 worth of wins is capped at $20,000 of losses.

So $20,000 of wins offset with $20,000 of losses is 0 taxable gambling income,

Like I mentioned it may screw up some peoples standard deduction or Adjusted gross income causing them to pay more, but as little as people understand gambling math, they understand tax math even less so I wouldn’t be surprised if the percentage of recreational players that stops gambling due to tax laws is close to 0%.

I may of course be wrong.

The casino lobby has enormous political power & they haven’t made an issue over taxes so they apparently don’t see it as a problem.

If it becomes a problem & casinos start losing business then the casino lobby will almost certainly exert political pressure to make changes.

[kewlJ]

And you also have to remember that people that would generate a lot of W2gs playing slot machines that average 85-90% payback are not rational financial actors to begin with.

I'm trying to lay low because I claim I died in another thread but well ... I lied. Shhhhhh. No one likes a liar.

Regarding slot degens - they may not be rational actors but when tax season comes along and you're already in debt on CCs and living paycheck to paycheck like your basic degenerate with little self control then you're going to have to come up with that money. It'll sting. The entertainment aspect is gone. THere is no current gambling high working against the pain of paying. All you know is you owe $1000 on money you already lost. You could have lost $50k and owe the tax man $30k. You know how the numbers work. It really is a crazy thing. Casino industry would help themselves taking a more holistic approach to that with PENNY SPINS !

I really suspect W2-Gs are more sigifcant reason people stop gambling than you realize. When you had to pay a tax on money you lost?...

Speaking of slots. In my state there are bars that basically based around slots. It is crazy. My parents were both hospitalized so I'm spending a lot of time at their house outside of the basement. So I've been to their neighborhood bar. Most of the women smoke and 80% are considerably overweight. Instead of going to LV and losing $500-$1k they lose $100 every night of the week... I used to want to get into that business but didn't have the capital. Geez the owner must kill it. These people going to be a burden on healthcare and need government help when they can no longer work. As trump would say piggy piggy piggy.

My main point was losing gamblers do not pay taxes on money they lost.

When you have a W2G(s)and you lost on gambling for the year the W2G(s) is issued you do not pay taxes on that W2G(s).

Even with the 90% loss deduction cap coming next year it will not affect most recreational gamblers.

It will look something like this for most rec gamblers:

Total 2026 W2Gs $20,000.

Total 2026 actual losses: $25,000 total. Actual losses with 90% deduction cap adjustment = max deduction adjustment $22,500

Gambling losses can only be deducted to the extent of wins so $20,000 of wins is written off with $22,500 of losses but capped at the win amount so $20,000 worth of wins is capped at $20,000 of losses.

So $20,000 of wins offset with $20,000 of losses is 0 taxable gambling income,

Like I mentioned it may screw up some peoples standard deduction or Adjusted gross income causing them to pay more, but as little as people understand gambling math, they understand tax math even less so I wouldn’t be surprised if the percentage of recreational players that stops gambling due to tax laws is close to 0%.

I may of course be wrong.

The casino lobby has enormous political power & they haven’t made an issue over taxes so they apparently don’t see it as a problem.

If it becomes a problem & casinos start losing business then the casino lobby will almost certainly exert political pressure to make changes.

Interesting. I haven't followed this issue all that much as machine play has become such a tiny part of what I do. I was thinking of getting into some advantage slot play this summer and mickey directed me to some videos to pick up some stuff, but I sort of soured on the idea pretty quickly for a variety of reason.

But I know gamblers were up in arms about this 90% thing as soon as they realized it had been snuck into the big beautiful bill back in the spring. So up in arms that they contacted their senators and congresspeople who didn't seem to know about it until after the fact. And the immediate response from the coverage and uproar from both sides of the aisle, was that they would pass a "fix" before the end of the year. Well here we are at the end of the year and it doesn't look like any "fix" will be passed or is even been discussed.

If what you say is true and I haven't looked into it, nor have any reason to doubt you, then I don't think it matters. You just offset your W-2 with a little higher losses if need be to cover the 90% instead of 100%. I mean the government doesn't accept W/L statements anyway. Oddly they accept a players own W-L handwritten logs and lets be honest, a player can make them say whatever he wants. Not that I ever did that. (where is the angel emoji).

Am I missing something?

[accountinquestion]

And you also have to remember that people that would generate a lot of W2gs playing slot machines that average 85-90% payback are not rational financial actors to begin with.

I'm trying to lay low because I claim I died in another thread but well ... I lied. Shhhhhh. No one likes a liar.

Regarding slot degens - they may not be rational actors but when tax season comes along and you're already in debt on CCs and living paycheck to paycheck like your basic degenerate with little self control then you're going to have to come up with that money. It'll sting. The entertainment aspect is gone. THere is no current gambling high working against the pain of paying. All you know is you owe $1000 on money you already lost. You could have lost $50k and owe the tax man $30k. You know how the numbers work. It really is a crazy thing. Casino industry would help themselves taking a more holistic approach to that with PENNY SPINS !

I really suspect W2-Gs are more sigifcant reason people stop gambling than you realize. When you had to pay a tax on money you lost?...

Speaking of slots. In my state there are bars that basically based around slots. It is crazy. My parents were both hospitalized so I'm spending a lot of time at their house outside of the basement. So I've been to their neighborhood bar. Most of the women smoke and 80% are considerably overweight. Instead of going to LV and losing $500-$1k they lose $100 every night of the week... I used to want to get into that business but didn't have the capital. Geez the owner must kill it. These people going to be a burden on healthcare and need government help when they can no longer work. As trump would say piggy piggy piggy.

My main point was losing gamblers do not pay taxes on money they lost.

When you have a W2G(s)and you lost on gambling for the year the W2G(s) is issued you do not pay taxes on that W2G(s).

Even with the 90% loss deduction cap coming next year it will not affect most recreational gamblers.

It will look something like this for most rec gamblers:

Total 2026 W2Gs $20,000.

Total 2026 actual losses: $25,000 total. Actual losses with 90% deduction cap adjustment = max deduction adjustment $22,500

Gambling losses can only be deducted to the extent of wins so $20,000 of wins is written off with $22,500 of losses but capped at the win amount so $20,000 worth of wins is capped at $20,000 of losses.

So $20,000 of wins offset with $20,000 of losses is 0 taxable gambling income,

Like I mentioned it may screw up some peoples standard deduction or Adjusted gross income causing them to pay more, but as little as people understand gambling math, they understand tax math even less so I wouldn’t be surprised if the percentage of recreational players that stops gambling due to tax laws is close to 0%.

I may of course be wrong.

The casino lobby has enormous political power & they haven’t made an issue over taxes so they apparently don’t see it as a problem.

If it becomes a problem & casinos start losing business then the casino lobby will almost certainly exert political pressure to make changes.

Yea but you lose your standard deduction. I dunno - the types of gamblers who can afford to play machines and accumulate W2Gs and such will likely understand that. I guess maybe not if they just hand off their records to an accountant and really don't understand standard deduction. As my taxes have become increasingly complex over the years I've continued to learn little things I wasn't aware of but until my 40s I was pretty ignorant on the little misc tax implications.

When you put the loss of the standard deduction into the equation then they are likely paying taxes on lost money and will see it like that if they also lose their standard deduction. Infact the accountant may say "Well we had to pay taxes on this W2G because otherwise you lose your standard deduction".. or they see it in the software?

The question is how many of these people understand the loss of their standard deduction? Hmmm. I have no clue. But if 1/2 of them do then that is sizable. Out of that population I wouldn't be surprised if 10-20% possibly more give up playing slots much because when tax season rolled around they had to cough up more but i guess it all comes down to how that loss is framed and whether their accountant explains the standard deduction issue or just shows them the bottom line? Or how many people use Quicken etc?

I don't think I've ever found it in my favor to not have the standard deduction. So I've always ate my W2-Gs at tax time.

[DGenBen]

I'm trying to lay low because I claim I died in another thread but well ... I lied. Shhhhhh. No one likes a liar.

Regarding slot degens - they may not be rational actors but when tax season comes along and you're already in debt on CCs and living paycheck to paycheck like your basic degenerate with little self control then you're going to have to come up with that money. It'll sting. The entertainment aspect is gone. THere is no current gambling high working against the pain of paying. All you know is you owe $1000 on money you already lost. You could have lost $50k and owe the tax man $30k. You know how the numbers work. It really is a crazy thing. Casino industry would help themselves taking a more holistic approach to that with PENNY SPINS !

I really suspect W2-Gs are more sigifcant reason people stop gambling than you realize. When you had to pay a tax on money you lost?...

Speaking of slots. In my state there are bars that basically based around slots. It is crazy. My parents were both hospitalized so I'm spending a lot of time at their house outside of the basement. So I've been to their neighborhood bar. Most of the women smoke and 80% are considerably overweight. Instead of going to LV and losing $500-$1k they lose $100 every night of the week... I used to want to get into that business but didn't have the capital. Geez the owner must kill it. These people going to be a burden on healthcare and need government help when they can no longer work. As trump would say piggy piggy piggy.

My main point was losing gamblers do not pay taxes on money they lost.

When you have a W2G(s)and you lost on gambling for the year the W2G(s) is issued you do not pay taxes on that W2G(s).

Even with the 90% loss deduction cap coming next year it will not affect most recreational gamblers.

It will look something like this for most rec gamblers:

Total 2026 W2Gs $20,000.

Total 2026 actual losses: $25,000 total. Actual losses with 90% deduction cap adjustment = max deduction adjustment $22,500

Gambling losses can only be deducted to the extent of wins so $20,000 of wins is written off with $22,500 of losses but capped at the win amount so $20,000 worth of wins is capped at $20,000 of losses.

So $20,000 of wins offset with $20,000 of losses is 0 taxable gambling income,

Like I mentioned it may screw up some peoples standard deduction or Adjusted gross income causing them to pay more, but as little as people understand gambling math, they understand tax math even less so I wouldn’t be surprised if the percentage of recreational players that stops gambling due to tax laws is close to 0%.

I may of course be wrong.

The casino lobby has enormous political power & they haven’t made an issue over taxes so they apparently don’t see it as a problem.

If it becomes a problem & casinos start losing business then the casino lobby will almost certainly exert political pressure to make changes.

Yea but you lose your standard deduction. I dunno - the types of gamblers who can afford to play machines and accumulate W2Gs and such will likely understand that. I guess maybe not if they just hand off their records to an accountant and really don't understand standard deduction. As my taxes have become increasingly complex over the years I've continued to learn little things I wasn't aware of but until my 40s I was pretty ignorant on the little misc tax implications.

When you put the loss of the standard deduction into the equation then they are likely paying taxes on lost money and will see it like that if they also lose their standard deduction. Infact the accountant may say "Well we had to pay taxes on this W2G because otherwise you lose your standard deduction".. or they see it in the software?

The question is how many of these people understand the loss of their standard deduction? Hmmm. I have no clue. But if 1/2 of them do then that is sizable. Out of that population I wouldn't be surprised if 10-20% possibly more give up playing slots much because when tax season rolled around they had to cough up more but i guess it all comes down to how that loss is framed and whether their accountant explains the standard deduction issue or just shows them the bottom line? Or how many people use Quicken etc?

I don't think I've ever found it in my favor to not have the standard deduction. So I've always ate my W2-Gs at tax time.

Not too long ago I met up with some people that play professionally & we had a meal together discussing different things.

I consider most of them sharp & most of them file as professional gamblers, although some do not for a variety of reasons.

Some are newer to the business, others have been doing it for years or decades.

When the subject of taxes came up I was a little surprised to find that to a person everyone had different interpretations of the way gambling taxes are supposed to work. & everyone reported and filed their taxes differently. No one had been through an audit yet.

I should not have been surprised because something I have come to notice recently is people do not understand taxes.

This includes politicians, tax professionals, accountants, & even IRS agents.

Often how a particular situation is handled in the IRS will come down to the particular employee at the IRS that is handling it.

I think you could even change the old saying that there are two certainties in life, death & taxes to there are three certainties in life death, taxes, & people don’t understand income taxes.

So I really don’t think it matters that much because people don’t understand taxes.

Now obviously when a tax situation is very vanilla everyone can come up with same number. A guy earns $100,000 annually from his salaried job, writes off $15,000 in mortgage interest blah blah blah there really won’t be any debate on tax due with professionals although lay people still won’t really understand the calculations because of standard deductions, tax brackets, etc.

But as soon as any type of complexity or something not clearly defined or with multiple interpretations comes into play then all the experts & professionals go off the rails too,

This is by design by the way. It is deliberately designed to be extremely complex & hard to understand so that Joe LunchBucket can get screwed & large corporations & wealthy donors can game the system but no one can figure out what is actually going on,

[accountinquestion]

Think it was done this way deliberatlely is hard to believe. That would suggest a level of competance that just isn't there. It is just what is called "technical debt" in programming. Just layers of shit upon existing layers of shit where the whole thing is a huge mess.

Yea, I've tried to read the tax code directly. It takes serious specialized training. I don't know - but the lower classes need to start making the upper classes pay up more or they'll just end up owning pretty much everything and we'll be back to being serfs like it was in England.

Middle classes already wind up selling their houses and can't even pass a house on to their kids. Then the kid has to pay overpriced rent and such. So hard to start your own business when you can barely afford necessities.

[MDawg]

[jdaewoo]

This retard is a closeted homosexual.

[mickeycrimm]

I would put the number of recreational gamblers that keep a gambling logbook at somewhere between slim and none. I would think the first thing out of an accountant’s mouth after seeing a gambling W2G is “where’s your logbook?”