ASM revisited again!

[kewlJ]

Yesterdays post about OSN resulted in a communication from an old BJ friend I hadn't communicated with in many years. He was a BJ AP for many years (longer than myself), but like most BJ APs has moved on to other forms of AP in the last decade.

So after we exchanged some thoughts about OSN, the discussion moved to the ASM. He told me he felt he was cheated playing against a ASM last year in a jurisdiction in the US but not Vegas. I am not going to repeat the exact details but, this is a guy that knows blackjack and variance and has played against ASM for decades. If he feels something wasn't right, I would bet something wasn't right.

Now I personally am no longer or at least at this particular time all that concerned with the ASM situation. How I play now, I do not get enough rounds at one sitting that I would notice if something were wrong. So I just have to chance it like every other player. At some point if I go back to playing the local circuit, where I ran into what I suspect was cheating, I may once again be a little more concerned.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

But at the risk of torturing myself, I want to once again revisit and make a couple comments about the ASM situation, since it was in the news last month with the poker cheating scandal.

Several days ago I posted some comments that Dan Druff had made 7 years ago when this was discussed which I will repost now.

From what I'm reading, and from my knowledge of embedded systems programming (which I worked in for several years prior to becoming a poker pro), I highly suspect that this particular "chip" can be removed and then one with more sinister programming could be inserted in its place.
So it appears that these Shufflemasters can indeed read cards AND sort them into sequential order. If Shufflemasters can see the cards they're shuffling and have the ability to arrange the cards in order, then they can very possibly be rogue-programmed to do other things, such as this "clumping" you mention.

It's not a stretch to believe that they could be modified to do more than that.

The only difference between a shuffle machine arranging cards in sequential order (apparently a feature on the newer Shufflemasters), and one arranging cards illegally, is the programming.

The same capability to arrange the cards sequentially could easily be used to arrange the cards other ways, such as the alleged high-card-clumping.

All a bad actor would need to do would be to access where the programming is stored, and change it to this slightly different functionality.

My concern is that someone could simply remove a flash device in the system containing the programming, and either modify it or replace it with an identical device with different programming.


I don't know the hardware of a Shufflemaster, so I can't comment further. But "seeing eye shufflers" should make the average gambler very nervous, as they're just begging to be abused.

Now here is some additional comments from Druff in a discussion at PFA just last month after the Poker scandal broke responding to a member there.

I know you're very big on the Deckmate 2 shuffler issue. It also really bothers me, which is why I did a radio segment on it a few years ago.

However, I will say I doubt that huge casinos are using a modified version of it. I think the risk is too much. This would result in permanent loss of licensure.

Might such cheating be happening in Indian casinos, or small casinos? Yes -- especially the Indian ones, as they are not subject to "search warrant' type inspections, and can cover up the evidence before the announced inspection date.

So my own experiences at 2 different locations 7 years ago, were 2 relatively small casinos, East Cannery, and El Cortez. Just the kind of places that Dan Druff STILL thinks might go rouge.

So I am just wondering, if the guy here that calls me a liar for my views and experiences in this matter, would use that language to Dan Druff who apparently STILL shares similar concerns.

I am hoping to get a chance to hear Druffs radio show on the subject matter if I can get a link or list of show and how to listen. because this issue, while not a top concern of mine at the moment, is NOT going to go away. These machines have the ability to cheat with a relatively minor adjustment. And that should have never been the case.

[kewlJ]

If anyone is wondering why I am holding Dan Druff out on this issue it is because his knowledge in "embedded systems programming" makes him an expert in just how easily these machines could be altered and manipulated with just a little bit of access.

Couple that with Druffs experience and expertise in gambling and casino environment, and his conclusion that some casino, somewhere just might risk this kind of cheating. If not the casino, some rouge players (personnel) in the casino.

And I believe I encountered two such cases, of relatively small casinos that did. And there were/are probably a lot more cases like that out there. Players being educated on this issues is one of the ways to keep them in check.

[smurgerburger]

Must have been a busy thanksgiving between entertaining your 8 guests and receiving top secret communiques at 2 in the morning.

[Rob.Singer]

The fairy is no different than what all others with crossed wires upstairs find themselves doing during the holidays: trying over and over again to be seen as relevant in a world that knows they are not.

This particular one is also addicted to trying to convince everyone who already KNOWS he's full of horseshit, that his online forums concoction is real. It's as pathetic as it gets.

Looks like the turkey ate HIM.

[accountinquestion]

Yesterdays post about OSN resulted in a communication from an old BJ friend I hadn't communicated with in many years. He was a BJ AP for many years (longer than myself), but like most BJ APs has moved on to other forms of AP in the last decade.

So after we exchanged some thoughts about OSN, the discussion moved to the ASM. He told me he felt he was cheated playing against a ASM last year in a jurisdiction in the US but not Vegas. I am not going to repeat the exact details but, this is a guy that knows blackjack and variance and has played against ASM for decades. If he feels something wasn't right, I would bet something wasn't right.

Now I personally am no longer or at least at this particular time all that concerned with the ASM situation. How I play now, I do not get enough rounds at one sitting that I would notice if something were wrong. So I just have to chance it like every other player. At some point if I go back to playing the local circuit, where I ran into what I suspect was cheating, I may once again be a little more concerned.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

But at the risk of torturing myself, I want to once again revisit and make a couple comments about the ASM situation, since it was in the news last month with the poker cheating scandal.

Several days ago I posted some comments that Dan Druff had made 7 years ago when this was discussed which I will repost now.

From what I'm reading, and from my knowledge of embedded systems programming (which I worked in for several years prior to becoming a poker pro), I highly suspect that this particular "chip" can be removed and then one with more sinister programming could be inserted in its place.
So it appears that these Shufflemasters can indeed read cards AND sort them into sequential order. If Shufflemasters can see the cards they're shuffling and have the ability to arrange the cards in order, then they can very possibly be rogue-programmed to do other things, such as this "clumping" you mention.

It's not a stretch to believe that they could be modified to do more than that.

The only difference between a shuffle machine arranging cards in sequential order (apparently a feature on the newer Shufflemasters), and one arranging cards illegally, is the programming.

The same capability to arrange the cards sequentially could easily be used to arrange the cards other ways, such as the alleged high-card-clumping.

All a bad actor would need to do would be to access where the programming is stored, and change it to this slightly different functionality.

My concern is that someone could simply remove a flash device in the system containing the programming, and either modify it or replace it with an identical device with different programming.


I don't know the hardware of a Shufflemaster, so I can't comment further. But "seeing eye shufflers" should make the average gambler very nervous, as they're just begging to be abused.

Now here is some additional comments from Druff in a discussion at PFA just last month after the Poker scandal broke responding to a member there.

I know you're very big on the Deckmate 2 shuffler issue. It also really bothers me, which is why I did a radio segment on it a few years ago.

However, I will say I doubt that huge casinos are using a modified version of it. I think the risk is too much. This would result in permanent loss of licensure.

Might such cheating be happening in Indian casinos, or small casinos? Yes -- especially the Indian ones, as they are not subject to "search warrant' type inspections, and can cover up the evidence before the announced inspection date.

So my own experiences at 2 different locations 7 years ago, were 2 relatively small casinos, East Cannery, and El Cortez. Just the kind of places that Dan Druff STILL thinks might go rouge.

So I am just wondering, if the guy here that calls me a liar for my views and experiences in this matter, would use that language to Dan Druff who apparently STILL shares similar concerns.

I am hoping to get a chance to hear Druffs radio show on the subject matter if I can get a link or list of show and how to listen. because this issue, while not a top concern of mine at the moment, is NOT going to go away. These machines have the ability to cheat with a relatively minor adjustment. And that should have never been the case.

You are beyond insane.

I've told me own stories about being cheated by a shuffler. Hell - maybe you were cheated at the El Cortez.

THe difference is you bought a random used and said it had a cheat mode integrated that was discoverable in "around 15 minutes". A billion dollar company wouldn't be doing that especially if it was so simple someone could discover it. One unrelated rogue casino employee who knows could sink 1 billion in value. No one could expect that secret to be kept.

Gaffed shufflers are a whole different thing than the company releasing their own that has cheat modes readily discovered in 15 minutes.

I've made this point countless times and there is something about your brain that doesn't understand. I have a feeling I was cheating by being cold decked in a mixed game. I actually gave quite a few details about the hand and have no desire to repeat them because if the guy who I suspect is behind it then he'd readily realize who I am and who I am talking about. If anyone on here who I know personally cares that much I can give the full story sans names.

People have been saying they're rigged/cheat/whatever for years. You don't understand the distinction between it BEING POSSIBLE vs SOMEONE HAVING DONE IT vs THE MANUFACTURER HAVING DONE IT. And that is where you failed in this lie. The manufacturer would never do it and they'd for sure make it where you couldn't hack it in 15 minutes. That is like those movies where some guy is under pressure to hack something because otherwise the bomb will go off. ANd the clock is ticking down... and he nails it with :01 on the meter. hahaha.. literally that is the sort of shit you're talking about.

STOP IT. What in the fuck is wrong with you. Get help. I was wondering where you went last night - that you went off deep in thought typing up nonsense that isn't even relevant. No one is saying the shufflers can't be gaffed. The MIT guys or whomever it was were not able to control it after spending a lot of time on it but in your world you do it in 15 minutes. So insane.

Get help.

The argument is not whether they can be gaffed. The issue is how much it would take.

The issue is not whether it can be done - the issue is whether you did it in 15 minutes with some random you hired off craigslist. (if I am wrong about details - find THAT thread)

The issue is not whether it has been done. It likely has at this point but you need to be deep in some crossroader bullshit to know.

The issue is assuming it is done - has the manufacturer provided machines to licensed casinos that have this capability pre-programmed in?

I actually believe I was cheated too and if I present all the facts then it makes sense. Although it is conjecture and it points to specific people. It was done in poker with me and I might very well be wrong. A wheel out the gate vs 666/22. Me with 777 that never fills up. I'd never suspected anything except the host of this game and other related poker gossip/news that was a cloud about this man.

Haha - whatever. I actually thought you'd given up.

Readers out there - Do not believe Kewl for anything. Cool fantasies and you think you have a grizzled gambler sharing his adventures but stick with ZenKing for the real deal. (People have at least met him) If you believe this guy for any sort of advice then you're possibly listening to things that may have some real life experience but there is a clear almamagation of fantasy involved with Kewl.

[MDawg]

[jdaewoo]

This retard is a closeted homosexual.

[kewlJ]

Must have been a busy thanksgiving between entertaining your 8 guests and receiving top secret communiques at 2 in the morning.

You have become as fucking nuts as the other trolls here. We had guests over from about 2pm-7pm for dinner and a little visit. All were local from Las Vegas so there was no long-term entertaining. My mother was here earlier in the morning because she wanted to cook the turkey. She requires no entertaining from me. I visit with here several times a week.

So yes I was happy to return an email and follow up with a phone call for 30 minutes to someone I hadn't talked to in a number of years. Good lord how could I have possibly squeezed that in?

The obsession more and more of you people have with me just leads you to say and conclude idiot things.

[smurgerburger]

Must have been a busy thanksgiving between entertaining your 8 guests and receiving top secret communiques at 2 in the morning.

You have become as fucking nuts as the other trolls here. We had guests over from about 2pm-7pm for dinner and a little visit. All were local from Las Vegas so there was no long-term entertaining. My mother was here earlier in the morning because she wanted to cook the turkey. She requires no entertaining from me. I visit with here several times a week.

So yes I was happy to return an email and follow up with a phone call for 30 minutes to someone I hadn't talked to in a number of years. Good lord how could I have possibly squeezed that in?

The obsession more and more of you people have with me just leads you to say and conclude idiot things.

I hope your friend the high ranking casino executive made it. (Cosmo, is that right?)

[kewlJ]

I hope your friend the high ranking casino executive made it. (Cosmo, is that right?)

Yep, he did make it. No he doesn't work at Cosmo. He works in the pit of a strip casino, part of one of the big chains. That isn't some high executive position. Mdawg came up with that lie. But he does have access to some information that has been a help to me (like OSN) and unfortunately for dawg proved some of his story BS.

And he isn't ONLY a friend that works in the industry, but a part-time blackjack AP as well. It has been my pleasure to share a few things with him over the years that I hope improved his game.

I am told that years ago, before my time, people working on one side of the tables but counting cards on the other side during their time off was a very common thing in Vegas. It is not nearly as common anymore, so that makes him kind of a throw back.

Additionally, he is just a nice guy and an interesting guy to talk to for anyone that has an interest in casinos. He has interesting stories from both sides of the table, including the story I have told that brough us together as friends.

So as usual your trolling is an epic fail, SmurgeBooger.

[MDawg]

kewlJ has been a whiner, a liar, a hypocrite, and a pain in the ass on many occasions

The entire forum knows you have an issue with pathological lying.

Other forums also know you have an issue with pathological lying.

Maybe you should listen to what everyone else says, and take a look in the mirror.

you can't help but insert fibs into your postings, and sometimes they're not very believable fibs, and the entire thing comes crashing down.

You also pulled a death hoax on another forum.

[jdaewoo]

This retard is a closeted homosexual.

[smurgerburger]

I hope your friend the high ranking casino executive made it. (Cosmo, is that right?)

Yep, he did make it. No he doesn't work at Cosmo. He works in the pit of a strip casino, part of one of the big chains. That isn't some high executive position. Mdawg came up with that lie. But he does have access to some information that has been a help to me (like OSN) and unfortunately for dawg proved some of his story BS.

And he isn't ONLY a friend that works in the industry, but a part-time blackjack AP as well. It has been my pleasure to share a few things with him over the years that I hope improved his game.

I am told that years ago, before my time, people working on one side of the tables but counting cards on the other side during their time off was a very common thing in Vegas. It is not nearly as common anymore, so that makes him kind of a throw back.

Additionally, he is just a nice guy and an interesting guy to talk to for anyone that has an interest in casinos. He has interesting stories from both sides of the table, including the story I have told that brough us together as friends.

So as usual your trolling is an epic fail, SmurgeBooger.

I think it's great that despite all the time you spend on the forums, mostly trying to convince "haters and trolls" that you are real, and despite the fact that you scrupulously avoid meeting anyone, people flock to you in real life.

[MDawg]

What’s crazy about all this is that any normal person would realize that his ever changing story and desperate attempts to put out fires is just confirming that his story is false, and making him look even worse, but a sociopathic liar can’t help himself, and keeps lying just to cover up other lies.

[MisterV]

I think it's great that despite all the time you spend on the forums, mostly trying to convince "haters and trolls" that you are real, and despite the fact that you scrupulously avoid meeting anyone, people flock to you in real life.

I too have "scrupulously avoided meeting anyone" from this forum and I am not an AP.

Does that evoke sinister feelings about me, make me less trustworthy?

Bwa ha ha ha

[MDawg]

You are hopelessly dense

[smurgerburger]

I think it's great that despite all the time you spend on the forums, mostly trying to convince "haters and trolls" that you are real, and despite the fact that you scrupulously avoid meeting anyone, people flock to you in real life.

I too have "scrupulously avoided meeting anyone" from this forum and I am not an AP.

Does that evoke sinister feelings about me, make me less trustworthy?

Bwa ha ha ha

If you were claiming to be a 20+ year LV resident AP who is acquainted with numerous unnamed other APs, and had a history of telling whoppers, it would indeed.

Besides even you went to a WoV meetup, which should easily put you 0-1 degrees of separation from almost everyone on here.

[kewlJ]

The fact is that I beat you trolls at your own trolling game every day of the week. You gang up like cowards, lie and repeat each others lies and you still LOSE, every day. You know why? because my basic story and claim is true. It is how the math works. It is how the casinos work, with counter-measures against real winning players and how a real player gets around that.

And if someone comes along that isn't a troll and has real concerns or questions about what I do, I can and do answer those questions and concerns and explain things as much as I can.

I am sorry if a couple of you people that want to make up ridiculous stories about winning huge amounts of money from casinos while playing rated, and the casinos not caring, for years/decades get upset with me because I won't allow you to push such ridiculous fiction.

Get the fuck over it and stop being such losers and pussies. You really are a bunch of pussies with this shit.

You want to keep going.....we can keep going. I have some free time most days the way I play now, especially weekdays. I can keep kicking your ass every freaking day as long as you want. It is better than most of the shit on cable TV anyway.

[MDawg]

Puppets like KewlJ give me the horrors. They jerk around like puppets on invisible strings, galvanized into hideous activity that is the negation of everything living and spontaneous.

The live human being has moved out of KewlJ’s body long ago. But something moved in when the original tenant moved out. And that something, is the Norm’s, The WizardsofVegas, the RobSingers, the Taters/Moses, the MDawgs who marched into KewlJ’s head and took over like ventriloquists' dummies who have moved in and taken over the ventriloquist. The dummy KewlJ sits there in front of the computer, envious, jealous, obsessed, and uncontrollably yapping out of a rigid doll face about MDawg.

There is a certain kind of ghost that can only materialize with the aid of a sheet or other piece of cloth to give it outline. KewlJ was like that. He materialized only when someone else moved into his head and gave him a reason to appear.

[smurgerburger]

Here's a math problem, and one KJ pretended to misunderstand last time I posed it:

What are the odds that if KJs backrooming story were true, and it had been covered by two local news stations as he claimed, and these stations actually aired footage of the pre-backroom incident, that no record of it the events, the news coverage, or anyone having seem them would appear anywhere online?

V would you like to hazard a guess? 1 in a million? Lower? Maybe 1 in a billion?