OSN, Tommy, Me & "others"

[MisterV]

The Wiz has posted that he moved to Bellingham / Bellingham area.

[kewlJ]

The Wiz has posted that he moved to Bellingham / Bellingham area.

I wonder why the sudden exodus from Las Vegas by some of the resident longtime APs. Vegas is such a lovely shade of brown year round with mild/moderate temperatures.

Could it be that advantage play no longer requires you to enter a B & M casino anymore as I still do? If you have internet, you are in a casino and can find things to AP.

Our changing world!

[MisterV]

He's definitely there.

He posted on Facebook:

"Bellingham Lost & Found Pets ·
Michael Shackleford
· August 30 ·
Hello. I found this terrier in downtown Fairhaven last night. He is very friendly and playful. Please message me if you're looking for him."

[kewlJ]

So he is no longer the wizard of VEGAS. He is the wizard of bellingham. Not quite the same ring or meaning to it.

[DGenBen]

I don't have direct access to OSN. I know some APs do. from what I understand it used to be easy for non-casino people to get into the database through a backdoor method, but that has been shut off.

I just have a friend that alerts me to anything concerning me and that is all I need. I am also very appreciative of having that.

But I am wondering, what the database looks like these days with all the machine and slot AP that players have gravitated to. Are there more machine/slot APs showing up in the databases? Is it filled with multi-carders?

I may be wrong about this, but generally speaking I don’t think many machine or slot APs including multi-carders show up in databases.

This is just from talking to others that do this, it doesn’t seem to come up.

The way casinos normally deal with these types of players is to either 86 them or cut off their mail.

Total speculation on my part is that this may be because casinos may have a strong incentive to share information on table games where the players are taking money directly from casinos (and the money can be large), but casinos may not really mind that much if a machine pro or multi-carder hits their competition down the road.

I’m talking about lone wolves or a multi-carder that runs a few friends cards.

I’m sure that for big organized teams that take down very big plays or run 20+ different cards some of those people do end up in databases & I have in fact heard of that happening although it’s not near as common as table players.

[accountinquestion]

I don't have direct access to OSN. I know some APs do. from what I understand it used to be easy for non-casino people to get into the database through a backdoor method, but that has been shut off.

I just have a friend that alerts me to anything concerning me and that is all I need. I am also very appreciative of having that.

But I am wondering, what the database looks like these days with all the machine and slot AP that players have gravitated to. Are there more machine/slot APs showing up in the databases? Is it filled with multi-carders?

I may be wrong about this, but generally speaking I don’t think many machine or slot APs including multi-carders show up in databases.

This is just from talking to others that do this, it doesn’t seem to come up.

The way casinos normally deal with these types of players is to either 86 them or cut off their mail.

Total speculation on my part is that this may be because casinos may have a strong incentive to share information on table games where the players are taking money directly from casinos (and the money can be large), but casinos may not really mind that much if a machine pro or multi-carder hits their competition down the road.

I’m talking about lone wolves or a multi-carder that runs a few friends cards.

I’m sure that for big organized teams that take down very big plays or run 20+ different cards some of those people do end up in databases & I have in fact heard of that happening although it’s not near as common as table players.

Seems like it'd largely depend on the security type manager at the casino. Whatever his title is. It is easy for them to just turn stuff off, reset pins, whatever. They have to care enough and understand. THe one MCer I met while doing it appears to have gone broke when he should have killed it. At least he was lookng for some form of gambling work. Would love to know all his stories as he probably accumulated a lot of info. It is kinda interesting all the various approaches. If it was still my thing I'd probably try and track him down and debrief him. lol

I feel if they could easily figure out who you are a multi-carder then it might be far more likely. I was very small time. All the slot APing and BJ videos/sites have brought in a lot of people into the AP world who could easily go to the next step. That whole thing seems like it'll just get rapidly harder to manage.

[kewlJ]

I personally don't think there is much value for casinos in the whole database thing. The database companies, OSN and others (griffin before them), just like all the game protection companies that have shot up, somehow convince the casino and casino industry that they are saving them or protecting something when I don't think they are. All they are doing is making money for themselves. I don't think much would change for casinos as far as bottom line with no database companies.

BUT that is why DGenBens answer surprised me a little bit. I would think that databases would be doing the same thing with the slot Aps now that it is so popular. Trying to convince casinos that we are saving you and you need our service by expanding right into all the slot APs. But I am glad they are not. Actually doesn't matter to me either way.

[DGenBen]

I personally don't think there is much value for casinos in the whole database thing. The database companies, OSN and others (griffin before them), just like all the game protection companies that have shot up, somehow convince the casino and casino industry that they are saving them or protecting something when I don't think they are. All they are doing is making money for themselves. I don't think much would change for casinos as far as bottom line with no database companies.

BUT that is why DGenBens answer surprised me a little bit. I would think that databases would be doing the same thing with the slot Aps now that it is so popular. Trying to convince casinos that we are saving you and you need our service by expanding right into all the slot APs. But I am glad they are not. Actually doesn't matter to me either way.

Reason why casinos don’t care as much is slots are money printing machines for them.

They just set them at 85-90% RTP & put them on the floor and watch the money roll in.

Some places take action against slot APs but the problem is there are so many & there are also a lot of people who look like slot APs but are actually losing players.

Other than multi-carders slot APs are just taking edges left behind by other players that have already been paid for so the casino gets their hold percentage regardless & the more coin in, usually the better.

Smarter casinos just let the money roll in & don’t try to micromanage who is playing their 10-15% hold machines lest they kill the golden goose. They also throw out the ones who act like idiots & bother other players not for being APs but for behavior.

I don’t know about database companies but there are software companies, I think one is called Acres, trying to convince casinos that they are a bigger problem than they are to sell tracking software to identify them from the type of machine play they do, but for the most part casinos aren’t buying it (literally & figuratively)

[Rob.Singer]

Even though we have done our share of arguing, you are a real player who knows what is real and what isn't and unfortunately we have lost most of us and the trolls have just taken over.

Expanding on this a bit. I came to this forum 8 years ago, when many of us APs exited a forum with a crazy ass owner. It was at mickeycrimm's suggestion that I come here. He said there were AP's here that shared experiences along with a group of trolls. He specifically mentioned I might enjoy arguing with Rob Singer (who I had never heard of) about his claims.

So when I got here there was a nice mix. A good number of AP's that I knew most from other forums, mickey of course, Axelwolf, RS_ (blackjack player not to be confused with Singer), MaxPen, JBJB, Boz, I am sure a couple others I am forgetting. there was also a number of people that I immediately labeled "anti-AP" who's only mission was to fight with the AP's. People like Belly, and Rob, and blackhole, and a couple others.

Alan was here of course. and Alan was a little bit anti-AP, but not in the nasty ways of the others. He mostly just liked to argue. I think his son might even agree with that. Oh and there was Dan Druff, an AP who actually particpated regularly on this forum. MisterV, who I knew from WoV, a great poster who was a recreation player and never pretended to be anything else came a few months later. And oh yeah, there was a supposed "professional sports bettor" here. I was actually excited about that at the time.

When Midwest player (very occasional member) announced at the old blackjack forum that I was here, we had a few real blackjack APs players visit. Unfortunately none stayed long.

Unfortunately over the last 8 years, Most APs have dropped, deciding not to put up with this BS. And any new ones that came, never stayed long. But the new people that did come were either trolling anti-AP or became trolling AP pretty quickly, so that side grew.

And that is where we are today. just a couple real APs left vs a half dozen anti-AP trolls trolling. And the remaining APs, have no desire to share all that much. Even me, who's primary thing was to share some of what I do, no longer shares very much. I just spend my time return fire on the trolls and KJ haters, which have grown.

I don't know what the forum was like under Alan, but that has been the history under Druff. A steady stream away from real players sharing experiences and things they do, and toward people just trolling, lying, making up ridiculous claims, like singer and dawg.

Sad.

A prime example of someone who feels the walls closing in on him. Constantly desperately trying to convince others of his fabrications.

Watching kew make a fool out of himself NEARLY EVERY DAY is indeed a treat to behold!