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Thread: Will they adjust pay tables in 2026?

  1. #141
    This is the gambling tax article by law professor, Bryan Camp, that Druff pulled off the internet:

    https://www.taxnotes.com/special-rep...25/08/14/7sxhn

    In this article Camp discusses the Bonaparte vs. Commissioner tax court decision in 2019. Here is the pertinent part:

    4. TAX COURT OPINIONS

    The Tax Court has wrestled with the concept of session in several cases and has not arrived at a consistent definition. However, from reading the various Tax Court opinions in recent years, I conclude that the Tax Court may be receptive to a “per-establishment” approach. This approach ties the concept of session to wins and losses at specific locations over the entire year and not just to a single 24-hour period. This idea recognizes that a gambler may visit multiple locations during the year and develop a record of wins and losses at each location. Unlike the Shollenbergers, who wanted to net all activities from all locations over the course of an entire year, this approach nets only activities at a single location over an entire year. This approach anchors the relevant session to the statutory period of the tax year rather than forcing the concept into the Procrustean bed of an arbitrary 24-hour period.9

    Under this per-establishment method, taxpayers would be able to use net losses for the year at one establishment as the section 165(d) deduction against net gains (if any) from another establishment.

    Support for this idea comes from Boneparte and Bright. The former is a memorandum opinion by Judge Richard T. Morrison; the latter is a bench opinion by Judge Ronald L. Buch Jr.

    In Boneparte the taxpayer gambled at 14 separate casinos in 2013. On his return he took the position that he was a professional gambler. He thus reported his gambling activity on Schedule C, on which he reported wagering gains of $18,000. He reported total non-wagering “business expenses” of $89,000.12 The IRS did not dispute the $18,000 of gains, naturally. But it disallowed all of the claimed losses, finding that James Boneparte was not a professional gambler.

    Morrison agreed that Boneparte was not a professional gambler. Still, he would be entitled to deduct losses from wagering transactions against gains from wagering transactions on Schedule A.

    To prove his losses, Boneparte submitted annual statements from each of the 14 casinos where he gambled. Every single annual statement showed a net loss for the year, adding up to a net loss of $15,000.

    Morrison accepted these per-establishment annual records as evidence of net wagering losses. The IRS insisted that only the net losses of $15,000 could be deducted against the reported $18,000 of wagering gains. The Tax Court explained why the IRS was wrong:

    The 14 casino statements include the amounts of both (1) gains from wagering transactions for which there was a gain and (2) losses from wagering transactions for which there was a loss. Therefore the aggregate loss . . . equals the gains from wagering transactions for which there is a gain minus the losses from wagering transactions for which there was a loss. It is not, as the IRS assumes, just the losses from wagering transactions for which there was a loss."

    ________________________

    The second case is Bright vs. Commissioner 2023:

    Camp wrote:

    Like Morrison in Boneparte, Buch took a per-establishment approach in the Bright case. That case also illustrates how a per-establishment approach can be tricky. In 2019 Jacob Bright gambled mostly at three casinos: Mystic Lake, Treasure Island Minnesota, and Diamond Jo Worth. At each casino, he almost always used a player card. That allowed him to get reports from each of the three casinos for his annual play activity. On his 2019 return, he reported about $241,000 of wagering gains and an equal amount of losses. However, he did not keep strong daily contemporaneous records that would support a per-transaction approach. When audited, the IRS accepted his self-reported income but disallowed all the losses for lack of substantiation (of course).

    What saved Bright was his player card records. Buch allowed Bright to introduce reports of his player card activity from each of the three casinos he gambled at in 2019. All three reports showed Bright to be a net loser.

    But each casino’s annual report reported different information. Mystic Lake reported player activity monthly and reported only whether the player’s account reflected a net loss or a net gain for the month. Treasure Island reported only the net annual activity and broke it down by source: slots or the pit area. However, unlike the other two casinos, it also reported the dollars Bright spent in each area through his player card. Those would be his wagers. Finally, Diamond Jo, like Treasure Island, reported only the net annual activity. It apparently solely tracked Bright’s slot machine play this way and did not report his wagers, just his yearly net.

    Because each casino’s report gave different information, Buch did a careful analysis of each casino’s information to determine the amounts of yearly net gains and losses within each casino. He concluded that Bright incurred about $191,000 in losses. The important point here is that Buch used this per-establishment method, allowing the taxpayer to do a yearly netting for activities at each separate establishment."

    And Camp also wrote about the language in the One Big Beautiful Bill that supports the yearly session method:

    While the media has focused on the 10 percent haircut in section 165(d)(1)(A), I ask readers to instead focus on the new language in section 165(d)(1)(B). I believe this language helps taxpayers address the netting problem.

    The new language in section 165(d)(1)(B) supports the idea of a yearly session. Recall that the original language in section 165(d) provided only that “losses from wagering transactions shall be allowed only to the extent of the gains from such transactions.” The CCA focused on the plural (“transactions” and not “transaction”) to conclude the statute permitted some netting. The CCA came up with the concept of “session.” The problem was figuring out the boundaries of permissible netting. The IRS came up with an impractical one-day rule. The Tax Court has tentatively approved a more workable yearly per-establishment rule.

    The new language in section 165(d) strongly supports the Tax Court’s tentative approach. It now explicitly tells us that losses from wagering transactions “shall be allowed only to the extent of the gains from such transactions during such taxable year” (emphasis added). Do you see the path forward? To know the limit, a taxpayer must now determine their “gains from [wagering] transactions during [the] taxable year.” If a taxpayer has zero “gains from [wagering] transactions during [the] taxable year” then their losses from wagering transactions are not deductible against any other income. That is indeed the purpose of the limitation — to prevent taxpayers from deducting personal expenses against their income."
    _____________________

    Bonaparte and Bright have now set precedents on 1) using one year as a session per establishment, 2) using casino win/loss statements as proof of win/loss. Using one year sessions per casino is huge for professional gamblers. It has major repercussions which I will show in a later post. As for using win/loss statements one could use them for backup but I think it would be wise to keep a contemporaneous logbook.
    Last edited by mickeycrimm; 01-04-2026 at 08:01 AM.
    Druff, let us know when you receive redietz’ credit score.

  2. #142
    Big beautiful bill has a new gambling tax law that starts jan 1 2026.

  3. #143
    Of importance:
    The issue always boils down to IF you are being audited, how competent and up-to-date are the IRS auditors handling your case? In my two audits as a professional gambler (not current; 2000-2009) I had to lead them by the hand--without letting them know I had read every IRS gambling income statute that my son-in-law (an IRS senior auditor) provided me prior to filing. And the fact that I treated everyone in the room with respect [and there were a couple very frustrating/very dense ones (as I was told to expect) in the group] I believe played an equal part in a successful conclusion to each audit.

    My goal was not to get to a Tax Court. That's where all of these precedents, opinions, and sometimes contradicting/complex previous decisions arise. I controlled the audit room. That power disappears in a courtroom.

  4. #144
    Rob, you were wise to consult with an expert on that tax matter: really, you are NOT a stupid person.

    Why then didn't you consult with an expert, e.g. a CPA or an attorney in the mid-eighties when you lived in England, filed bankruptcy and got into a pissing contest with the government over your taxes?

    Heck, why didn't you hire one to represent you in your appeal?

    Gotta blame it on the misguided confidence of youth...

    https://bota.az.gov/sites/default/fi...01806-99-I.pdf
    Last edited by MisterV; 01-04-2026 at 11:10 AM.
    What, Me Worry?

  5. #145
    Originally Posted by MisterV View Post
    Rob, you were wise to consult with an expert on that tax matter: really, you are NOT a stupid person.

    Why then didn't you consult with an expert, e.g. a CPA or an attorney in the mid-eighties when you lived in England, filed bankruptcy and got into a pissing contest with the government over your taxes?

    Heck, why didn't you hire one to represent you in your appeal?

    Gotta blame it on the misguided confidence of youth...

    https://bota.az.gov/sites/default/fi...01806-99-I.pdf
    It is interesting that Rob had a meeting where he instructed the auditors. My understanding is they ask you for your records yet Rob has a whole team of people looking at his stuff at once and with him in the room.

  6. #146
    Originally Posted by accountinquestion View Post
    It is interesting that Rob had a meeting where he instructed the auditors. My understanding is they ask you for your records yet Rob has a whole team of people looking at his stuff at once and with him in the room.
    While I've never been audited by the IRS I was audited by the bar association one time: the audit did not require that I mail them anything prior to them coming to my office.

    The audit involved one man reviewing my documents in my office for a couple days then he left.
    What, Me Worry?

  7. #147
    Only time the audit will matter is if you are having cash transactions... If you are depositing more cash than you show winnings for that is when it will be an issue...

    The specific issue here is with W2G's or anything reported...

  8. #148
    Several points:

    Slap, the cash transactions absolutely were an important part of my 2 audits, but they were support, and not the reason for the audit. I drove to Nv. almost weekly for 9-1/2 years, and every single time I withdrew tens of thousands in cash before going (and sometimes while in Nv.) then I re-deposited it plus my profit as soon as I returned. I kept good records and they perfectly matched my contemporaneous logs. The biggest question had to do with how it was that I was winning so often (which mostly was due to my playing the du bug).They believe most or all gamblers lose. My reason for winning? I was a professional. and I also reported everything truthfully and paid taxes per IRS requirements.

    V, that was a state tax issue, which wasn't much. There was a much bigger Federal issue that caused us to file. We eliminated that issue 100% but lost this state tax issue. I've never used a CPA or a tax preparer in my life. I'm smarter and more resourceful that all of them, and from what I've been told they're not as willing to push the envelope as I am.

    AQ, this will expand your understanding. The audit I'm referring to was a multi-year audit covering 3 successive years. There were 2 auditors and 2 assistants in the meetings.

  9. #149
    Originally Posted by accountinquestion View Post

    It is interesting that Rob had a meeting where he instructed the auditors. My understanding is they ask you for your records yet Rob has a whole team of people looking at his stuff at once and with him in the room.
    I have had the audit where all that is required is additional documentation (at least initially). All I had to do was transfer my individual session results from the computer program where I record them into handwritten form in a notebook, which makes no sense, but that is the format that carries more weight with the IRS.

    Certainly not an expert, but I have never heard of an audit for an individual player that involved a whole team, like Rob said. But Rob is so damn important and his audit amount so huge because he won millions, it required half the field office being assigned to it. And Rob being who he is (in this story) just strolled in and took complete control of the audit. The legend of Rob Singer grows, even as he lives out his retirement broke, living off his kids.
    Expected Value is NOT an opinion.

  10. #150
    BTW, by the numbers Rob claims he made 3.9 million over 5 1/2 years playing the DU bug. That is what 700K a year average? Nice amount if it were real, but still only 700k a year. That is not some ungodly amount that they would have half the office working on, I wouldn't think. But again, the "legend" of Rob Singer continues....

    And what do I know, I am just jealous of that "legend".

    One thing that rings true from Rob is depositing and withdrawing 5 figures every week would be something that triggers an audit. No real professional player would do that. If you are playing that frequently you just keep you BR in a safe spot until you next play. And for table game players this is one of the areas that a "chip inventory" comes in handy.
    Last edited by kewlJ; 01-04-2026 at 04:08 PM.
    Expected Value is NOT an opinion.

  11. #151
    I’ve gotten I’m sure a lot of CTRs issued against me from casinos but as long as reasonably speaking the output from the casino more or less equals the input I don’t think the government cares.

    One of my banks it issues cashier’s checks with the next day’s date on them after 2pm PST so if I want to present such a payment to a casino that day it needs to be a cash payment. Where it gets tricky is the bank CTR when I withdraw from one of my companies will be in the EIN of the company and then the deposit CTR will be in my personal SSN (casinos don’t conduct business via EIN) but this hasn’t been an issue yet I assume because my entities are mostly 100% owned by me.
    Last edited by MDawg; 01-04-2026 at 04:22 PM.
    I tell you it’s wonderful to be here, man. I don’t give a damn who wins or loses. It’s just wonderful to be here with you people.

    MDawg Adventures carry on at: https://www.truepassage.com/forums/f.../46-IPlayVegas

  12. #152
    While at the casino cage of one of the Majors recently, I noticed this



    and took a pic of it (redacted, above).

    This is what happens to someone who is known to the casino, but has no SSN on file, who has cashed too many chips (or deposited too much cash). It doesn't take much to reach this point, some casinos will demand the SSN after as little as 6000 cumulatively have been deposited or cashed out.

    The reason the ID is there is like a sort of "lookout" to look for the face.

    An unknown player who has cashed out too much and remains in hiding is subject to a SAR once identified, if they are able to connect the dots.

    I've posted about this in detail, how much a person may be able to cash out without a player card or identifying himself. At the Majors, the big casinos, the breaking point is anywhere above a thousand dollars, with two or three thousand in chips being the max. This also depends on whether it is done at the regular cage or high limit.

    At a less high end casino, anything above a black chip (500s and above) are scrutinized closely.

    And at the tables, anyone who ducks out without "coloring up" draws attention to himself, if for no other reason than being a pain in the ass to the pit boss who now has to think about ordering a fill for those smaller chips, and now has to put in more work to figure out exactly what the player walked with.

    The other day when I had a big winning hit, and I was walking around the pit basking in the glory of the win, the pit boss came up to me and asked how many 5K chips I had walked with. I told the pit boss that I had had X number of 5000 chips in my pocket when I arrived, and walked with X many, and that seemed to have solved the dilemma. I'm not sure why in that instance the number of 5K chips (versus 25K or 100K) I walked with mattered.
    Last edited by MDawg; 01-04-2026 at 04:29 PM.
    I tell you it’s wonderful to be here, man. I don’t give a damn who wins or loses. It’s just wonderful to be here with you people.

    MDawg Adventures carry on at: https://www.truepassage.com/forums/f.../46-IPlayVegas

  13. #153
    Originally Posted by MDawg View Post
    ... when I withdraw from one of my companies ...
    Busy lad: practicing law, gambling 100 + days a year in sin city and Tahoe, owning and overseeing numerous companies: it's amazing you find the time to post online.

    You must be quite the multi-tasker.
    What, Me Worry?

  14. #154
    Originally Posted by MDawg View Post
    I've posted about this in detail, how much a person may be able to cash out without a player card or identifying himself. At the Majors, the big casinos, the breaking point is anywhere above a thousand dollars, with two or three thousand in chips being the max. This also depends on whether it is done at the regular cage or high limit.

    At a less high end casino, anything above a black chip (500s and above) are scrutinized closely.

    And at the tables, anyone who ducks out without "coloring up" draws attention to himself, if for no other reason than being a pain in the ass to the pit boss who now has to think about ordering a fill for those smaller chips, and now has to put in more work to figure out exactly what the player walked with.
    In an attempt to stop some of the excess trolling which Dan Druff has expressed a desire for, I proposed and Mdawg accepted that he and I would no longer mention one another in any way. And that was to include thinly veiled references about the other.

    The above is Mdawg breaking that agreement as clearly his thinly veiled comments are about me. Dawg, you couldn't even stick to the agreement for 72 hours without trolling. Pathetic!

    Doesn't matter, I will continue to abide by what I agreed to. I really have said all I need to say about Mdawg and his "story".
    Expected Value is NOT an opinion.

  15. #155
    Better drop it, KJ: his post is ambiguous enough to leave you standing on thin ice.
    What, Me Worry?

  16. #156
    Originally Posted by MisterV View Post
    Better drop it, KJ: his post is ambiguous enough to leave you standing on thin ice.
    Come on MrV. This isn't a court of law. I don't need a ruling as to which would or wouldn't stand in a court of law. On this forum, I am basically the only BJ player that describes his play in terms of amounts, betting levels, exiting the table without coloring up ect. And Mdawg worked all that into his post, very thinly veiled about me.

    I specifically said, no thinly veiled comments. We are big boys and both understood what that meant. And he chose to violate the agreement. And we both know it!
    Expected Value is NOT an opinion.

  17. #157
    And just for the record this kind of thing is exactly what playing during busier times is all about. There seems to be this perception that surveillance is a dozen guys upstairs staring at monitors so as to watch every move a possible card counter makes. That is completely false, movie type shit.

    Surveillance is half dozen guys, maybe a few more in really big casinos, a few less in smaller ones, each staring at a bank of screens, 12, 16, 20, and each screen rotates among several cameras, whatever the setup may be for each casino. And card counters are very low priority in most cases, the exception being a really large bettor spreading wildly, or a team of players that draws attention.

    A solo player is not drawing the attention described on a busy Saturday night, cashing out a few thousand chip. Very low priority. Below watching players in the high limit rooms. Below watching their own employees which is actually near the top of priority.

    And THAT is exactly the difference between playing busier times and slower times. On a Tuesday afternoon, sure, someone in surveillance might see a player walk from the table with about $7000 in chips and cash out only $3000 and be all over that. On a busy Saturday night, with a line at the main cage, and much bigger things to be looking at, absolutely not. Surveillance would be watching players like HIM, 100x more than players like me. That is why this style works.

    The only draw back is there is only 1 or 2 weekend nights each week. Maybe a third on a holiday weekend or a very special week like is upcoming with CES in town, the single largest convention of the year.
    Expected Value is NOT an opinion.

  18. #158
    I don’t even read your posts. V is right.

    Get a grip everything isn’t all about you.

    If you’re going to be that high strung and sensitive you might as well find the nearest bridge tie a rock and rope around your neck and jump.
    I tell you it’s wonderful to be here, man. I don’t give a damn who wins or loses. It’s just wonderful to be here with you people.

    MDawg Adventures carry on at: https://www.truepassage.com/forums/f.../46-IPlayVegas

  19. #159
    Originally Posted by MDawg View Post
    I don’t even read your posts. V is right.

    Get a grip everything isn’t all about you.
    Dude, you a player claiming to play the limit you play, claiming wins of a million dollars and half million dollars in just the last week, would have no reason to be talking about a player playing black chip and cashing out a few thousand. Absolutely no reason.

    You always think everyone is dumb and you are smarter than everyone, when everyone always knows exactly what you are up to.

    Just stop! Stop worrying about what I am doing and how I play and all your trolling. I am over it.
    Expected Value is NOT an opinion.

  20. #160
    There is no need to comment further when UNKewlJ makes the point himself.

    Honestly though, how do you even function? as in anywhere. Walking around with the weight of the world heaped on use narrow shoulders must be quite a chore.
    I tell you it’s wonderful to be here, man. I don’t give a damn who wins or loses. It’s just wonderful to be here with you people.

    MDawg Adventures carry on at: https://www.truepassage.com/forums/f.../46-IPlayVegas

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