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Thread: Changing Games or Denominations on 1 Machine

  1. #41
    Slingshot this is not a technical discussion. You don't have to be a "techy" to take part in this discussion. What we are talking about here is not really technical at all. And please contribute because this is an open Forum and I want you to share your ideas.

  2. #42
    I'm sure you can sit in a slot manager's shoes and figure out which machines, which denominations, and during which events you would do things. What are you trying to accomplish? Max income, minimum time, fewest hands played under conditions, a number of affected hands that numbers in the least so no statistical trail that might be explained as other than randomness.

    Just for the record -- find me a casino manager who was fired and did not get a comparable or better job after a rigged drawing or other issue. Find me a casino whose income from players was damaged after a rigged drawing or other issue.

    Other problems with some of these arguments -- casinos have not, for several years now, "made enough money." Does any manager believe his area is "making enough money?"

    And finally -- find me the collection of "ne'er do wells" who went to jail for rigging this or that for the casinos.

  3. #43
    Originally Posted by slingshot View Post
    That's totally unfair. I understand I don't have the technical knowledge, I was only thinking out loud. I will stay outta this as I'm not a techy.
    Most people don't understand how randomness works. Your description above fit random machines just fine. If you thought it was unusual then you need to spend a little time trying to understand randomness. It would be time well spent.

  4. #44
    Originally Posted by redietz View Post
    And finally -- find me the collection of "ne'er do wells" who went to jail for rigging this or that for the casinos.
    Kind of a loaded question. Does that mean they didn't get caught or no one has tried?

    There are many security rules in place in most venues. The technicians are used to following them. I believe part of that is verifying Serial Numbers with the manufacturer. I suspect forging a chip and getting it installed with no one finding out is a lot more difficult than you think.

  5. #45
    OKI. I'm gonna give myself away. If you were gonna say I was "controlled" by someone, it would be Claude Holcombe (penname)-I don't even know who the guy's real name is. Before I started I read everything I could get my hands on and I'll just say that most of them were the same stuff you guys are talking about. Then this guy comes out and just kinda skims over this stuff and gets to where he tells of his experiences and from all the notes he's kept. I got the 20 hands idea (100) credits from his book "Smart Slots" from the Silver Plan he advocates. Similarly, I started taking my own notes and drew my own conclusions and Rob's method kinda fit in with my ideas and understanding. If you remember the start of his methods, he had a video where he said 100 credits bp, then 200 abp. Then he said it wasn't fixed it could be 100/100..l immediately clicked with this thinking. Of course, I'm just now finding out it is LOSING these amounts. Also he (Claude) had a fixed amount of sessions because the machines were always negative expectations and the longer one played, the more any winnings were taken back. So yes, maybe most income, least time-but I think it's more personal experience from my own notes.
    Last edited by slingshot; 03-09-2012 at 06:34 PM. Reason: left out wording

  6. #46
    slingshot: there is nothing wrong with taking ideas from others and using the ideas that have worked for you. I "learned" how to play video poker from Bob Dancer and John Grochowski books and software and from going to Dancer's lectures. But I've also adopted some of Rob Singer's ideas. There is no "magic bullet" for playing video poker and that's because the game is still based on luck. So trying to adapt to that luck factor which no one controls opens the doors to all of the "alternative methods" such as Rob's.

    I don't know who Claude Holcombe is so please share some of his main points.

  7. #47
    Geez. I wish I knew his real name. His book is an oldy-"slotsmarts". He is an author and supposedly famous gambler. I chose his Silver plan which uses 20 spins (remember this is slots) and if investment isn't returned, play consummates. If 10% above investment is returned, only that 10% can be continued with, then session is over. Play is immediately terminated on a machine if it results in 100% return or above. He limits it to 15 sessions and day is over, because the longer one plays, the more the negative expectations in gambling take back the winnings. He supposedly followed a surprisingly constant winner, took notes on what he thought the guy was doing-from watching and rather short "meetings" with him and formulated his own notes and proports to be a constant winner.

  8. #48
    I forgot to add my notes. While playing, my observation has been 3 types of vp machines: (1 Worst case: machine on first 10 or so hands gives 20-35 credits and then the rest of the time is spent with a rapid decline. (2. Machine starts decent and lulls you into continued play with hardly perceptible losses until it's hold has been met. (3 Machine starts out acting like it's read the vp holds charts and flushes flush, straights straighten, and 1-2 card draws give trips and even full houses. Love this one.

  9. #49
    Originally Posted by slingshot View Post
    I forgot to add my notes. While playing, my observation has been 3 types of vp machines: (1 Worst case: machine on first 10 or so hands gives 20-35 credits and then the rest of the time is spent with a rapid decline. (2. Machine starts decent and lulls you into continued play with hardly perceptible losses until it's hold has been met. (3 Machine starts out acting like it's read the vp holds charts and flushes flush, straights straighten, and 1-2 card draws give trips and even full houses. Love this one.
    Well, that's great. But unless you are a psychic, aren't all of these observations made after the fact and is there any guarantee that these trends will continue?

  10. #50
    In the interest of accuracy, I want to make this comment:

    I played on a multi game multi denomination machine on my last trip, and here is what I saw:

    On each different game, the last cards showing were different.

    I played Bonus first at the $1 level. After several hands played at the $1 level I found that the same hand displayed at the other levels on this machine including 25-cents, 50-cents and $5.

    While I don't believe there is such a thing as hot or cold cycles, in the interests of accuracy I wanted to report that the last hand played does show up on the same game at different denominations.

  11. #51
    I want to clarify, please. Are you saying when you first checked, the hands were different, but after playing, they were the same on different levels?

  12. #52
    Originally Posted by slingshot View Post
    I want to clarify, please. Are you saying when you first checked, the hands were different, but after playing, they were the same on different levels?
    I never really checked the same game at different coin levels. I made my earlier post after looking at multi game machines and saw different hands on each game. The other night when I was at a casino I checked a Game King and there I saw different "last hands" on each game, and then made the observation about how the same cards remained on, for example, Bonus when I changed denominations. But the last hand did not change on the other games.

    Now, if you want to construe that this means that Rob is correct about there being hot and cold machines, and you can detect that RNGs are in a hot and cold cycle, then be my guest.

  13. #53
    No. I made a post where I said that the BP hands, for example, had last hands the same and I was hoping that I hadn't made an incorrect observation. I don't understand the antagonism towards me-I don't feel very welcome here. I'm just trying to learn.

  14. #54
    You are very welcome here, and don't feel any antagonism. Remember that the Internet and forum posts don't communicate much. You can't see smiles, you can't see warmth, you can't see friendship. With the Internet you only read words and your interpretation could be severely in error of the writer's feelings.

    For the most part, I think all of the negativity here is toward's Rob's controversial reliefs, and NOT in Rob himself. I've met Rob several times, and spoken with him on the phone numerous times. I think he's the nicest guy in the world. But some of his ideas are just nuts. LOL

    While others make a LOT of sense. :-)

  15. #55
    Thanks. All I have to say is that his ideas opened my thinking and made me realize I was addicted to vp and needed to step back and take a look at where I was headed. I took his general advice that's touted throughout all his articles and applied them to my own way of playing. I have different ways of doing some things. One example is I hold the A with a suited 10. I feel that way I can hit 4 10's, or STILL get the 4 A's, and best of all STILL get the Royal. And I'll never change that.

  16. #56
    I have a story about holding the suited ten with the ace...

    about three years ago I was playing in a big poker tournament in Vegas, and during a long dinner break, I passed by a double double bonus progressive. It was a $1 game and the progressive was close to $5800. I put a $100 in the machine and started playing. After a few hands I was dealt Ah 10h and three other small cards. I held only the ace -- which is what you do with DDB. And on the draw came the Jh Qh Kh. That put me on tilt for the poker tournament too.

    And in December of 2010 another experience: dealt Jd Jc 10d and three small cards... I held the pair of jacks, which is exactly right. On the draw came Qd Kd Ad.

    And I've probably had about a half dozen other "wrong decisions" where I missed a royal. In hindsight they were the wrong decisions. At the time, I made the right plays.

    Another player explained it to me this way: you play each hand the best way you can, and you don't look back or you'll just drive yourself crazy.

  17. #57
    Ouch! That smarts. Where it also comes into play is when I try to play aart. Several times when I have advanced to the highest denom, I've held the A w/suited 10 and gotten 3 10's-which, as you know, sends me back to the lowest denom. and a fresh start.

  18. #58
    Alan, Alan, Alan ....

    Of course, had you held the 10 and drawn 3 aces never having a chance to see if a kicker would have shown up, you'd be whining about that.

    And, you ignore the fact that if you had held the 10 your timing would have been changed resulting in different draw cards.

    Why do people live in "what if" worlds even when they know how the machines operate? Alan, you've even stated you understand the RNG runs continuously ... you would not have drawn the same cards so you're "story" is meaningless. You're "wrong decisions" are complete nonsense.

  19. #59
    Arc, I never said I made the wrong decisions. I made the right decisions for the hands I was playing. Perhaps you overlooked the last line of my post:

    Another player explained it to me this way: you play each hand the best way you can, and you don't look back or you'll just drive yourself crazy.

    by the way, I agree that with the continuous shuffle if you hesitate a fraction of a second, you will draw different cards. this is one reason why there is a lot more luck in the play of video poker than most people understand there to be.

    And, Arc, living in "what if worlds" is part of the enjoyment and wonder of life. What if I had asked Kathy Kraft to the senior prom in high school instead of Penny Hellman? Would I still have met my wife Shelley? LOL

  20. #60
    Alan, as long as you precede your "what if" daydreams with something like ... although I know I would have drawn different cards ... then you will look better. Many people don't understand how VP machines work and you're feeding their ignorance.

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