More Justification BS For Getting Casino Credit

[Rob.Singer]

Rob I think that any player with a credit line definitely does play more. A caual, low limit player would not have a credit line. In fact I think most casinos have a minimum for a credit line. The player who takes $600 to Vegas would not qualify for a credit line.

Where is your research that having a credit line makes you gamble more? Show the research.

The research lies in the plain and simple fact that casino credit is something casinos want every one of their customers to have. Guess why.

[jbjb]

I've never been offered it, but I sure as hell get tons of credit card offers that constantly get shredded. I don't need nor want credit. If I can't pay cash, I don't need it.

[Alan Mendelson]

The research lies in the plain and simple fact that casino credit is something casinos want every one of their customers to have. Guess why.

Okay. You have no proof. It's just another "Rob Singerism."

[RS__]

Alan, why do you let Rob continue to make false and ridiculous claims on your forum? I know this isn't particularly a gambling-educational forum, but don't you think it's doing a disservice to the public to allow such false claims to be made? Some people might even believe Rob's nonsense. And I'm not talking about only this thread.

[Rob.Singer]

Okay. You have no proof. It's just another "Rob Singerism."

Then do you have any reasoning to refute my belief on why casinos offer lines of credit? Or does that goofy statement by the most inexperienced gambler here, RS, have so much clarity that only someone like Brian Williams would stand behind.....

[Alan Mendelson]

Rob I am sure casinos want to make it easy for players to get access to money but that doesn't mean players are addicted or trapped by casinos when they use credit lines. Yes you can use a credit line for your own safety and convenience. Using a credit line doesn't mean you're trapped.

[dannyj]

I can fit about $8K in my wallet. I can fit $15K in one pants pocket [with phone and keys], and another $10K in the other pocket [with the wallet]. If the weather permits, I can wear a sweatshirt that has a pocket I can fit $15K in comfortably. So that's about $45-48K I can carry. $10K fits easily into a jacket pocket....well, I guess it depends what kind of jacket you have. Not that I carry this much cash with me, but if I needed to, I definitely could.

I think if you have cargo pants with all those extra pockets, you can probably fit $30-40K in each pocket, without the pockets bulging.

That's funny. I had a dream the other night that I won $400K at a casino. They asked me how I'd like to be paid, and I said beaming, CASH PLEASE! After a shocked look on the cashiers face, her and a supervisor started counting $10K bundles in front of me. I was jamming them in my cargo shorts front and side pockets and the rest in my wife's purse. After waking up, I started thinking about the taxation part of it, and I couldn't get back to sleep for an hour.

Seriously though, if I won that kind of money I would take a check for all but a few thousand. Would tax withholding be automatic or could I pay later myself?

[Alan Mendelson]

The biggest single win I ever had in Vegas was a video poker progressive of about 28 - thousand. I was asked if I wanted taxes withheld and I declined.

I never hit a six point Firebet in Vegas for $10K but I was told $2500 withholding is mandatory in Nevada. It was not required for $5000 which I've hit. In California I know of
No mandatory withholding.

[JustaDiamind]

I had a single hit for 70K in AC and was told withholding was mandatory at that level .

[dannyj]

Alan,
So you were not required to withhold taxes on your $28,000 jackpot win but they will mandatorily withhold 25% on a $10,000 fire bet win?

[Alan Mendelson]

Alan,
So you were not required to withhold taxes on your $28,000 jackpot win but they will mandatorily withhold 25% on a $10,000 fire bet win?

Correct. This is what I was told in the craps pit at Caesars -- that a 25% withholding on a $10K Firebet pay is mandatory. I've hit progressives at Rincón for $35K and $36K without withholding.

I also found the ruling on the $10K Firebet withholding odd.

[regnis]

If you win big at the craps table, the casino does have to report the win under the reporting requirements for cash transactions over $10,000, but no withholding is required. Not sure why they are withholding on the fire bet and I can't find any published rules.

I always laugh when people "sneak" chips into their pockets to avoid the reporting rules. The crew knows where every big chip has gone and how many are in your pocket unless it's a huge game where everyone is getting orange and purple chips. And even then, they pretty much know and have filed the report without your knowledge anyway.

Years ago I won big at Paris and didn't want to redeem my marker because I wanted to make a few big horse plays the next day. So I walked down the hall to Ballys to cash---and of course they redeemed my markers first.

[jbjb]

Table games are supposed to be:

a) 300 to 1 or more and
b) $600 or more.

[regnis]

Table games are supposed to be:

a) 300 to 1 or more and
b) $600 or more.

That is same as horses. But I have never had any amount withheld in craps, including 6 figure wins.

[Alan Mendelson]

Years ago I won big at Paris and didn't want to redeem my marker because I wanted to make a few big horse plays the next day. So I walked down the hall to Ballys to cash---and of course they redeemed my markers first.

Whenever you go to the cage with big chips they will always check for outstanding markers. They want their money back, ya know.

I was in the high limit room at Caesars a few years back when a player hit a royal and said he wanted his $20,000 in cash. The floor person went to the cage to get it, but when she returned she had a suit with her and the suit said, "I'm sorry, we need you to pay back your $12,000 in markers first."

[dannyj]

That is same as horses. But I have never had any amount withheld in craps, including 6 figure wins.

Regnis,

Six figure wins in craps.....You're my new hero.

[RS__]

regnis, if it was a single bet, then it would be eligible for the withholding of 25% (or whatever percentage it is). If you won 6 figures over a period of time and not on a single bet, then it would (likely) not be eligible for the withholding of 25%. That isn't to say it shouldn't be reported come tax time, because you should report all wins/losses, whether or not a form is attached (ala W2G).

[Alan Mendelson]

This makes no sense. I've played craps with players with $10,000 on the pass or come and won (even money) and there was no 25% withholding. I've played with high rollers who had $10,000 flat bets with $50,000 odds and won and there was no withholding. I can understand a W2G on a $10,000 Firebet pay but why the mandatory withholding?

[FABismonte]

This makes no sense. I've played craps with players with $10,000 on the pass or come and won (even money) and there was no 25% withholding. I've played with high rollers who had $10,000 flat bets with $50,000 odds and won and there was no withholding. I can understand a W2G on a $10,000 Firebet pay but why the mandatory withholding?

Hi Alan:

Man has this thread meandered away from the initial topic. At any rate, I am no tax professional and you cannot rely on my guidance, but I believe that the operative information is found in the IRS booklet named "Instruction and Forms for W-2G and 5754" as follows:

"Withholding
You must withhold federal income tax from the winnings if the winnings minus the wager exceed $5,000 and the winnings are at least 300 times the wager. Withhold 25% of the proceeds (the winnings minus the wager). This is regular gambling withholding."


So the six point fire bet at a $10 bet requires withholding $2,500 for federal tax purposes because it is pays off at 1000 for one (more than 300 for one) and pays off exceeding $5,000. By contrast a five point fire bet pays off at 250 for one and is not subject to mandatory withholding at any bet amount. Moreover, a $5 fire bet which hits six unique points pays $5,000 (minus the $5 bet) and is not subject to withholding since it does not exceed $5,000. So if you do not want mandatory withholding, I suggest you limit your fire bet to $5 like I do.

FAB

[Alan Mendelson]

Thanks FAB for clearing that up.

If I knew a player was going to hit all six points, I would not limit my bet to $5 just to avoid the mandatory withholding. With that kind of advance knowledge I'd certainly bet the whole $10 and worry about the taxes later.