More Justification BS For Getting Casino Credit

[FABismonte]

Thanks FAB for clearing that up.

If I knew a player was going to hit all six points, I would not limit my bet to $5 just to avoid the mandatory withholding. With that kind of advance knowledge I'd certainly bet the whole $10 and worry about the taxes later.

Alan if your crystal ball can predict a six point fire bet, please give me a ring and let me join you at the craps table.

FAB

[Rob.Singer]

Why would anyone worry about taxes withheld when it comes to huge wins? The only smart move is to take the entire win and don't be worrying about taxes until later. Why give the government a cut to use when it's yours?

The only mandatory taxes I've ever ran into were on $1200 & up jackpots I've hit in the southern states and a few in the Midwest, but it's always a State tax. I think out-of starters can apply for some type of a refund at tax time but I've never bothered.

[jbjb]

Why would anyone worry about taxes withheld when it comes to huge wins? The only smart move is to take the entire win and don't be worrying about taxes until later. Why give the government a cut to use when it's yours?

The only mandatory taxes I've ever ran into were on $1200 & up jackpots I've hit in the southern states and a few in the Midwest, but it's always a State tax. I think out-of starters can apply for some type of a refund at tax time but I've never bothered.

They're talking about table games. And at a certain point, there is no choice. It gets withheld whether you want it or not.

[regnis]

Regnis,

Six figure wins in craps.....You're my new hero.

Few and far between. You have to do some stupid things like a triple parlay on a hard 10 for $50. I won't get into dice control or influence but hard 10 is my number and there is a particular throw that is different from my regular throw for the hard 10.

[Alan Mendelson]

I won't get into dice control or influence but hard 10 is my number and there is a particular throw that is different from my regular throw for the hard 10.

Teasing is not allowed on this forum. That is rule # 1003.48A so you must tell!!

[regnis]

Teasing is not allowed on this forum. That is rule # 1003.48A so you must tell!!

I hate rules!!! I was trying to avoid re-opening a discussion of dice influence. But when I was a serious dice thrower, 8 and 10 were my numbers, and when I wanted a hard 10 there was a slight variation in my throw for a hard 10. I can't describe the variation (not cause I don't want to but cause I don't know how to) other than to say that an extra revolution was involved. The more revolutions the more risk of error.

In any event, a triple parlay is stupid and is subject to table limits so is usually a double parlay plus.

You might ask why I didn't always try for hard ten if I had some degree of success doing so. The downside was a lot of 5-2's so it was high risk. But I and a few regulars who know me always have a hard 10 hopping on the come out and then always bet the 10 when I roll.

[Alan Mendelson]

Rule number 1003.48A-a1 you must at least reveal the set you used.

[dannyj]

Few and far between. You have to do some stupid things like a triple parlay on a hard 10 for $50. I won't get into dice control or influence but hard 10 is my number and there is a particular throw that is different from my regular throw for the hard 10.

That's awesome. If the casino allows a high odds bet (10x or greater) would you be inclined to put bet table minimum with max odds or just buy the 10?

[Alan Mendelson]

Put bets are not allowed on hardways -- only box and pass. So he had to just make big bets on the hard ten.

[dannyj]

Put bets are not allowed on hardways -- only box and pass. So he had to just make big bets on the hard ten.

Thanks Alan,

I understand the rules. But, if I know Regnis, (and I don't) he wasn't JUST on the hard 10.

Regnis,
I think you mentioned once before about playing at a 100x odds table, (I could be wrong) that is why I was wondering if that was the case, would you be more inclined to put bet min. with large odds or just buy the 10. Assuming the 10 is not your point.

[regnis]

Danny-In Illinois we have 100x odds at most casinos. Until my bet is over $100, I place or buy. Once I am over $100, I put if allowed or come. On the pass line, I always will use the lowest denomination and increase my odds. My initial bet if I am throwing would be $200 or $250 on the 10, $50 hard 10; lowest pass line bet with $150 odds; and a complimentary number for $100 or $125. If numbers start hitting I will place the others for $50 and convert to put bets with odds and increase the odds as the roll progresses. When I hit max odds I increase the base by another $5.00.

In vegas, I never put or come and only pass when I shoot. Otherwise, I place or buy. You will find old threads here about place bets vs. pass and come and why I disagree with the "experts" on that.

I will power press on a good roll and I have hit a 25,000 10 on occasion. It just doesn't happen often enough. I don't claim that my bets are necessarily the best bets with the lowest house edge. Quite the contrary. But I do attack if there is a good hand. I hate to see a good hand and nobody makes any money. I am willing to lose my buy-in quickly--but I will take advantage of a good roll. You have to have some degree of recklessness, in my opinion, in craps or you will get ground down.

My 2 favorite rolls were :
1--when I had $35 left in the rack and was leaving for the airport. Two guys passed the dice--so they came to me- so I figured I may as well blow the 35. An hour and 40 later I cashed out over $70,000 and missed my flight.

2--I had a closing in Los Angeles on a Monday. So I went to vegas for the weekend and then flew into LA in the morning. The one hour closing took 6 hours and I was changing my flight back to vegas every hour. Finally made it back to vegas, changed clothes and went right to the table. Had my biggest roll ever and made 18 8's starting at $300. Power press every other (or more often if hard)--you do the math.

I am an overall winner in craps, but a huge loser in video poker. But plenty of horrible short bust outs in craps when you play my style. It ain't for the faint hearted.

[Alan Mendelson]

I am an overall winner in craps, but a huge loser in video poker. But plenty of horrible short bust outs in craps when you play my style. It ain't for the faint hearted.

I am just the opposite. I am an overall winner in video poker and I would be embarrassed to tell you how much I lost at craps.

[jbjb]

Then quit playing craps!

[Alan Mendelson]

I've changed how I play craps and I wrote about it here. Now I play the passline with the FireBet. If I get just one pass, even a 7 or 11, on a come out, I essentially have a break even hand with the FireBet.

On my last trip to Vegas, I hit four numbers on the Firebet for $250 and only with a $10 passline bet.

About a year ago, I was at a table when FIVE numbers on the Firebet were hit TWICE and I only made a $25 passline bet. The Firebets paid off $2500 X 2.

Now, while my strategy is good for a negative expectation game, do you realize how STUPID I looked in all three of the examples I just gave you?

On my own hand when I hit four numbers, I also hit a winner on the 9 THREE times. In all, I had SIX passes. Other players made THOUSANDS on my hand.

In the case of the two hands when five numbers were hit by TWO players at the same table, most of the players at the table colored-up between $5,000 and $10,000 each and I got my $2500 plus the passline wins on each player.

Sometimes being "smart" is really being "dumb."

[regnis]

I couldn't play that way. But if you are comfortable playing that way then who cares if it's smart or dumb.

When I first went to vegas in my early 20's I played BJ and counted cards and played near perfect strategy etc. It was too boring for me. I had played craps all my life with my father in our basement--practicing shooting and developing strategies--but I didn't have the bankroll. Once I had a small bankroll, I never wanted to play BJ again. But I need the thrill of an aggressive approach to craps. I am not trying to stand there for 4 hours and break even.

I am the dumb one, but the big wins cover a lot of small losses.

[jbjb]

I knew of one casino that for a long while paid $4000 straight up, no bet required, to anyone who could shoot all 6 different points before a seven out. Only the shooter qualified.

[dannyj]

I don't claim that my bets are necessarily the best bets with the lowest house edge. Quite the contrary. But I do attack if there is a good hand. I hate to see a good hand and nobody makes any money. I am willing to lose my buy-in quickly--but I will take advantage of a good roll. You have to have some degree of recklessness, in my opinion, in craps or you will get ground down.

Thanks Regnis,

While some may think being aggressive is reckless I do not, having said that, it is what I struggle with most. For me, after showing a profit, I need to get on the gas more. Still trying to get to a five figure win level.

[regnis]

It angers me when I see players take their bets down early into what turns out to be a good roll because they are so used to losing that they cash a few bets and lock it up, only to lose it right back on the next shooter who sucks. Or even worse, come down off a number and then after it hits a few more times come back in on that number.

If I hit a number once or twice, I now am not at risk and I will power press every other (at least). You can't get to a high amount on a number if you don't press. That time I had 18 8's I was laughing because most of the other players were still at $12--never pressed at all. I understand some people are just there to kill time and trying not to lose too much. But I would rather play to win--and if I lose there are other things to do.

[Count Room]

It angers me when I see players take their bets down early into what turns out to be a good roll because they are so used to losing that they cash a few bets and lock it up, only to lose it right back on the next shooter who sucks. Or even worse, come down off a number and then after it hits a few more times come back in on that number.

If I hit a number once or twice, I now am not at risk and I will power press every other (at least). You can't get to a high amount on a number if you don't press. That time I had 18 8's I was laughing because most of the other players were still at $12--never pressed at all. I understand some people are just there to kill time and trying not to lose too much. But I would rather play to win--and if I lose there are other things to do.

Regnis: I have to agree with this based on my own limited craps experiences. Most of my craps playing was when I was young for smaller stakes. I am still ahead a few thousand for craps even though I haven't shot dice for decades.

My biggest runup was turning a throwaway $40 into $1,800 or so doing exactly what you suggested: Pressing the numbers hard while the roll was proceeding well.

You really have to approach it like Archie Karas if you want a big score, but set a strict budget that you will never exceed if things don't pan out during any session.

EDIT: I think Archie's downfall was being willing to go on long losing streaks without any budget or constraints. Just the psychological shakeup of losing $10 million+ in one day would stop any feel-good winning streak in its tracks beyond the provisional dollar values involved.

[regnis]

I knew of one casino that for a long while paid $4000 straight up, no bet required, to anyone who could shoot all 6 different points before a seven out. Only the shooter qualified.

They had that at Grand Victoria Casino in Elgin, IL for many years. Don't know if they still have it.