Have you ever been up 25% of your bankroll?

[slingshot]

My understanding is that the use of special plays depends upon where he is in pursuit of his win goal. If the 4 aces will attain the goal--no special play needed. If he is substantially down and needs the special play, he uses it.

Exactly. Not only that, some times the opportunity for special plays don't arise in the last 100 credits and the session ends.

[Alan Mendelson]

Exactly. Not only that, some times the opportunity for special plays don't arise in the last 100 credits and the session ends.

But Sling... his big win at Wynn was NOT a special play. You still don't get it and Rob still doesn't either. He said he always uses Special Plays and then he shows us a CONVENTIONAL play because he says he was in such a deep hole. Well, that's like admitting "my system didn't work so I had to abandon it and play conventional strategy." It's not a ringing endorsement of the Rob Singer System, is it?

[slingshot]

But Sling... his big win at Wynn was NOT a special play. You still don't get it and Rob still doesn't either. He said he always uses Special Plays and then he shows us a CONVENTIONAL play because he says he was in such a deep hole. Well, that's like admitting "my system didn't work so I had to abandon it and play conventional strategy." It's not a ringing endorsement of the Rob Singer System, is it?

Alan, I don't recall that play- if you want to help me recall. The only criterion I use is the best hold to bring me a profit if hit and I've never run into a situation requiring me to hold a kicker w/3 of a kind. I thought I remembered him holding 3 A's w/kicker because that would have reached a win goal. I only play 400 credits per session-changing machines if necessary and continuing where I am with the remaining credits as per strategy. It's the artt strategy. I think he was using his single play strategy which is 2,400 credits. Still, Regnis had it correct.

[Biloxi Bill]

But Sling... his big win at Wynn was NOT a special play. You still don't get it and Rob still doesn't either. He said he always uses Special Plays and then he shows us a CONVENTIONAL play because he says he was in such a deep hole. Well, that's like admitting "my system didn't work so I had to abandon it and play conventional strategy." It's not a ringing endorsement of the Rob Singer System, is it?

The Rob Singer system consists of walking around 2nd rate casinos with B.O. and moth eaten shirts by Purina,and spinning tall tales how he never loses on internet forums

[Rob.Singer]

Alan, it's silly for you to say "he always uses his special plays" because you regularly reiterate how I've correctly said my special plays account for about 5% of my plays. And how many times does it have to be repeated before it sinks in that OPTIMAL PLAY ALWAYS HAS COME FIRST UNLESS THE HOLD CALLS FOR A SPECIAL PLAY WHICH IS DETERMINED BY WHERE I AM AT IN MY WIN GOAL QUEST.

If you want to continue playing footsie with my special plays policy, that's fine. But at least get the facts straight.

[Alan Mendelson]

The facts are you told me Special Plays make up 5 percent of your plays but you always make them. This is why I was so surprised you held the kicker. You say specifically in the video YOU DO NOT HOLD KICKERS. In our interview there is NO mention ever that you hold kickers.

[slingshot]

The facts are you told me Special Plays make up 5 percent of your plays but you always make them. This is why I was so surprised you held the kicker. You say specifically in the video YOU DO NOT HOLD KICKERS. In our interview there is NO mention ever that you hold kickers.

Alan, you have stated before that you won't even try either the RTT or ARTT strategy-even using optimal play- so what difference does it make?

[Rob.Singer]

Alan, the disconnect has been when I say I never hold kickers, I refer to never holding a kicker as part of a special play. In an optimal play situation, of course I would hold it unless not holding it in TDB is called for (meaning quad A's thru 4's w/o a kicker would get me to my win goal). Then, THAT would be the special play.

[james40]

The facts are you told me Special Plays make up 5 percent of your plays but you always make them. This is why I was so surprised you held the kicker. You say specifically in the video YOU DO NOT HOLD KICKERS. In our interview there is NO mention ever that you hold kickers.

Alan, you are in investigative reporter.

To stop this endless debate with the old troll, why don't you guys meet up in Vegas, he plays in front of you using whatever "strategy" he employs and you report on it.

You are in Vegas on a regular basis, the troll lives in casino's in and around Vegas. Set up a meet and report on it.

My guess is there will be 1,000 different reasons why it won't happen and none of them will be from you.

[Alan Mendelson]

Alan, you have stated before that you won't even try either the RTT or ARTT strategy-even using optimal play- so what difference does it make?

I'm a reporter and I want accuracy. If I see a discrepancy I'm going to call it. I see a discrepancy.

[Alan Mendelson]

Alan, you are in investigative reporter.

To stop this endless debate with the old troll, why don't you guys meet up in Vegas, he plays in front of you using whatever "strategy" he employs and you report on it.

You are in Vegas on a regular basis, the troll lives in casino's in and around Vegas. Set up a meet and report on it.

My guess is there will be 1,000 different reasons why it won't happen and none of them will be from you.

I'll tell you why this won't work: we could be at a machine for hours and never see a special play situation. For example, I've gone half a dozen sessions without being dealt a full house with three aces in 7/5 Bonus. That's one of Rob's special plays where he holds only AAA. But in 8/5 he holds the full house.

[Alan Mendelson]

Alan, the disconnect has been when I say I never hold kickers, I refer to never holding a kicker as part of a special play. In an optimal play situation, of course I would hold it unless not holding it in TDB is called for (meaning quad A's thru 4's w/o a kicker would get me to my win goal). Then, THAT would be the special play.

Now you're claiming that a conventional play is a Special Play? No.

[slingshot]

I'm a reporter and I want accuracy. If I see a discrepancy I'm going to call it. I see a discrepancy.

There are two words that clear up the discrepancy: WIN GOAL.

[redietz]

There are two words that clear up the discrepancy: WIN GOAL.

Sling, you seem to have a grasp of this. Why don't you tell us exactly what the win goals are starting with various stakes. If you start with $100, what is your win goal? If you start with $300, what is your win goal? Do your win goals change as the sessions(s) continue? If so, why? Why would starting bankroll for a session affect a win goal?

[mickeycrimm]

There are two words that clear up the discrepancy: WIN GOAL.

You mean PAUSE GOAL don't you?

[james40]

Now you're claiming that a conventional play is a Special Play? No.

Alan, even you have had to admit the troll plays fast and lose with the truth. Who are you going to believe, him or your lying eyes? Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain.

[slingshot]

Sling, you seem to have a grasp of this. Why don't you tell us exactly what the win goals are starting with various stakes. If you start with $100, what is your win goal? If you start with $300, what is your win goal? Do your win goals change as the sessions(s) continue? If so, why? Why would starting bankroll for a session affect a win goal?

His artt and RTT strategies are posted in the forum and have been for years.
If you're serious, type in "artt strategy" in the search box,go to page 3 and select "Strategy question for Rob". Both strategies are listed.

[redietz]

His artt and RTT strategies are posted in the forum and have been for years.
If you're serious, type in "artt strategy" in the search box,go to page 3 and select "Strategy question for Rob". Both strategies are listed.

Sling, I'm asking why. If you do something but don't know why, that's okay. But "why" is kind of important.

[redietz]

It just occurred to me. Asking the simple question "Why?" frames Rob Singer's strategies a whole different way.

There is nothing aggressive or insulting about asking why he does this or that. If his answer is "because it's worked for me," well, that has a certain limitation. Kind of like when Hunter Thompson was asked if he had any recommendations for budding journalists and he replied, "I hate to recommend alcohol and drugs for everyone, but they've worked for me."

If Rob actually has some statistical "why" responses, then good for him, and he could share them as evidence for using his systems. If he does not, well, that suggests certain things, also.

No insults, no making fun of shirt selection, just simply asking "why" may tell us more about Rob Singer than we want to know.

[slingshot]

I really don't know how to answer, Red. Rob is the one that did all the analysis for his two 400 credit strategies and formulated the win goal figures with an approximate 80+% win rate. For approximately 8+ years I digested his articles, emailed my questions, etc. You are asking me to break down his strategy into fragments and that's why you should read aforesaid articles. Everyone has had the opportunity for the 5+ years I've been on the forum to absorb his thinking. For one such example, I remember the several page posts between him and Alan on hot/cold cycles. The big "why", IMHO, is why no one gives them a shot.