The Cosmopolitan and Who Fears Them

[Rob.Singer]

Early today Bob Dancer posted a message on vpFree about how they've hired an exec who used to work at a co. called OSN--described as a leading company in the recognition & analysis of "lucky and knowledgeable" vp players. He described this as putting fear into him enough so that he won't play there, because, as he says, if he hits a couple of $10 royals then he runs the risk of being walked out.

So far no one questioned this....and I'm sure arci would have if he were not permanently banned from the most popular vp forum on the Internet for bad behavior. So I did, by asking why it would be such a bad thing to be able to walk away from the place for good after attaining a nice net profit? I asked if OSN shares its info with the other casinos, but I'll bet it doesn't.

I haven't heard of this outfit so I called the executive offices at the Silverton, a place that won't allow me to play vp there any more because of being "too lucky". I asked if my situation was a result, in any way, of an OSN analysis. The person I talked to denied having knowledge of that company, and simply said he wasn't allowed to discuss my situation with me over the phone because he had no way of knowing if it was me or not. OK, so I set up a tentative visit with him in Oct. It's no big deal, but I'd like to know more.

The point is, Dancer's saying there's a fear that he would be tossed if he won, either by being lucky or knowledgeable. So what's wrong with walking away with their former money in his pockets? I certainly am not angry for taking probably less than $10k from the Silverton in 8 straight successful visits and not being able to take any more. I don't understand his thinking on this.

[Alan Mendelson]

I'm more curious about your situation than Dancer's, Rob. Why is your "tentative visit" set up for October? Why not Monday?

I know that Bellagio has facial recognition software on the property. They don't talk about it now, but they made a big deal about it prior to their opening. The Wall Street Journal, if I recall, had an article about it.

Are you sure you were "unwelcomed" at Silverton just for winning? LOL

[redietz]

I don't understand this from a couple of perspectives. I've seen the Cosmopolitan video poker, and unless they're offering some wild promos, why would anybody play it? It's all negative stuff. And why would Dancer say a facial recognition company is interested in video poker players at a place where video poker players cannot win? If Cosmopolitan wasted money hiring facial recognition guys for that purpose, it's really stupid. But then, Cosmo's casino floor has underperformed, so maybe they just don't know what they're doing in a general way.

I don't blame Rob for backburnering the Silverton meeting. It's not like they're going to actually have much to say, other than that they're paranoid.

[Alan Mendelson]

I was only at the Cosmo once, just after their opening. And I only saw a half dozen VP machines in the place, and they all had poor paytables. So I have to agree with redietz about why the fuss over video poker?

If there is a casino that might be concerned about advantage play it would be Aria which has a lot of progressive jackpot games with favorable pay tables at various denominations including the monster progressives for dealt royals on 50 play machines.

[Alan Mendelson]

why would Dancer say a facial recognition company is interested in video poker players at a place where video poker players cannot win?

Hmmm... maybe Dancer has found a way to win at games with a negative paytable? Nah. Impossible. He would never say that can be done!!

[Rob.Singer]

Alan, I can't go to a meeting until Oct. because we're up north until then. It'll have to be me who revives it by then and who knows how much more turnover they'll have. Either way I can live with or without playing there. At least we can still go to their excellent restaurants.

Dancer specified that even with their occasional 2X points on some high limit NSUD game, which puts it in his "playable" territory, he still stays away.

He didn't say anything about OSN having anything to do with facial recognition issues. He said it all had to do with analyzing if players were lucky or knowledgeable. If identified as such, he fears they will be 86ed. Maybe after all that happens the facial recognition software begins to play a part, but it has nothing to do with his initial fears.

[Alan Mendelson]

I'm going to walk over there Saturday night or Sunday morning and take a look at what kind of VP they have there now. I just don't remember anything there worth playing and just a few machines to begin with.

I will say this -- when I was there just after it opened I felt like a grandpa in the place and there were "young kids" sitting at $100 blackjack tables and throwing around green chips at jammed craps tables. And I was certainly underdressed in my jeans and sneakers -- everyone was in party duds and club attire.

[redietz]

If you check the reports, the Cosmo clubs are making money. They are the only part of the place doing well. The casino itself has been a disaster -- and they laid off a chunk of the floor workforce. The kids keep the clubs hopping and profitable, but it's just not translating casino-wide.

[Rob.Singer]

I went to the Cosmopolitan once around March. My impression was like Alan's in that it was loaded with young people spending big money on bar tabs and some tables but not at the machines. I saw very few vp machines other than at the bars. I did sit at a bar, had a drink, and left with about a $300 profit on their "negative" 8/5 ddb machines. I bought a cosmopolitan for my wife: $13.

Are they doing well? Everything I've read is just like redietz says: good on the clubs only/terrible overall.

[arcimede$]

According to vpfree2 the Cosmo has 9/6 JOB at $5 and up. I don't know what the player's club provides but at 2x it must make the games positive or Dancer wouldn't care one way or the other.

PS. Someone should alert the d---- that anyone can read vpfree.

[Alan Mendelson]

When I was there NO ONE was playing the slots or the VP and I was there during "prime time" around 10:30pm. Tables were jammed however, including $100 blackjack.

[Rob.Singer]

Psst....someone should tell arci that if he weren't banned from vpFree for obnoxious behavior as the admin. posted after he threw him off, he'd see where the NSUD Dancer was talking about with the 2X points made it "playable" for him. Of course, since arci's grounded for life resulting from similar obnoxious behavior when he tried to live in LV but failed, all he has is forums to look info up on instead of being able to go there, as I have with the missus and as Alan will be doing tomorrow. Oh well, boiling water must have its advantages.....

[Alan Mendelson]

Actually, Im leaving tonight at 6:01pm which is exactly one minute after my 5:30pm TV show is off the air. When the show concludes, I hit "post" to change my home page to list next week's TV show and I grab my bag and I'm out the door.

My only regret is that Jason and I have to drive (with Cosmo). Yes, we stay in a pet friendly room. (Shelley refuses to go to LV with me anymore -- she only goes when "the girls" are there.) I really look forward to the day when train service returns between SoCal and LV. The X Train which originally was supposed to have started up last fall is now scheduled to start in May of next year -- IF they can finally get all the pieces of the puzzle put together with the other railroads that run the freight tracks. But he XTRN stock is stuck at 7-cents a share and I'm afraid the stock price reflects the reality that the project has a long way to go before someone can say "all aboard."

So drive we must... and the drive is not getting any easier. There was a time when Jason and I would get in the car on Wednesday nights at 9pm, drive non stop to Caesars to play craps for an hour or two, and then drive straight back to go to work in the morning. Those days are over.

[Rob.Singer]

I'll bet Jason could still do it.

[Alan Mendelson]

I'll bet Jason could still do it.

No, I do the driving now. At 32 he's an old man. In fact, I'm driving up tonight. LOL

[arcimede$]

I certainly am not angry for taking probably less than $10k from the Silverton in 8 straight successful visits and not being able to take any more. I don't understand his thinking on this.

Here's an example of the honesty you get from Singer. Remember what he said a couple of months ago?

"if a schmuk, now no-name gambler like myself gets stopped for winning maybe 16 or 17k in 7 or 8 months, what do you think is happening to Mr. Big? "

http://vegascasinotalk.com/forum/showth...-Gambler/page5

What are the odds that anything he says is true? Pretty low.

[Alan Mendelson]

Please Rob. Please Arc. Enough already.

[Rob.Singer]

That tells everyone how meaningless an overall amount won is to me or anyone else....and how much whatever I write resides insides arci's head. I also said 7 visits back then and 8 visits here. But I can tell you this for certainty because we did it just last night: my wife & I walked Seattle for hours going from shop to shop & restaurant to restaurant.

[arcimede$]

That tells everyone how meaningless an overall amount won is to me or anyone else....and how much whatever I write resides insides arci's head. I also said 7 visits back then and 8 visits here.

Yup, everything you say is "meaningless" in the true sense of the word.

[Rob.Singer]

You must have slipped up as you missed the part about our WALKING around town?

Meaningless?....not that one!