The value of "proof"

[Biloxi Bill]

On Lord, stop it already dummy....every month it`s the same thing....you trying to wager some fake money you don`t have, in the hope of sounding importan and fanning the flames until your boyfriend comes in talking his nonsense, and arousing you further......you don`t have 2 nickels to rub together....stop making an idiot of yourself

[Alan Mendelson]

Actually it's quite simple. First we measure and plot the placement of two blackjack tables at Mirage or Bellagio. Then we go to a dealers school in Vegas and set up two tables like the setup in either casino.

The AP sits at one table playing a make believe game with a dealer while another dealer deals to another make believe game. We get "bodies" in the seats to simulate casino conditions.

Cards are dealt for X-number of hands. What's the count?

[coach belly]

Actually it's quite simple. First we measure and plot the placement of two blackjack tables at Mirage or Bellagio. Then we go to a dealers school in Vegas and set up two tables like the setup in either casino.

The AP sits at one table playing a make believe game with a dealer while another dealer deals to another make believe game. We get "bodies" in the seats to simulate casino conditions.

Cards are dealt for X-number of hands. What's the count?

Sounds like a plan. But wouldn't it be easier to just do this at Mirage or Bellagio?

[Alan Mendelson]

How are you going to verify the count if we did this at an actual casino? Tell the casino dealer and the pit boss what we're doing? Nope. We have to do this at a dealer's school where they will cooperate. I'll offer the dealers school free advertising on my TV show if they'll let us do it.

I already know that when I sit at one table I could not follow the action at the next table, nor would I be able to see the cards being dealt... especially when playing my own game.

But if kewlj says he has the (super) power to do it, good for him. Frankly, he should want to do this just to shut me up.

[RS__]

Kinda like when you finally figured out hole-carding isn't seeing the bottom card that won't be played, but a down-card.....instead of shutting up about it, you continued on with "but you can still lose", "it's not always going to help", "dealer won't expose hole card every time", and "I'm too lazy to find these games"?

I can show you 2+2=4 by having 2 oranges then someone else giving me 2 more and you still wouldn't believe 2+2=4 because I might have an orange in my pocket, what if I get hungry and eat one, that one looks like a lemon, or I don't like oranges.

[kewlJ]

But if kewlj says he has the (super) power to do it, good for him. Frankly, he should want to do this just to shut me up.

You either have some really good shit that you are smoking or are far crazier than I thought.

I would never....never ever...put myself in jeopardy to prove something to someone like you. Why would I do that? What benefit is there for me?

You continue to be free to believe whatever you like.

[Alan Mendelson]

Of course you won't, kewlj.

[kewlJ]

Of course you won't, kewlj.

You can play your troll games. I don't care. I won't go out of my way to prove something that you will never except anyway. What did redietz get out of it? Seven weeks and you won't even open the package. That anyone even gives you clowns the time of day is amazing to me.

You can and will say what you like, but I never said I was going to prove anything to you. I would never.....never, ever, ever put myself and career in jeopardy for absolutely benefit, just to prove anything to some troll on the internet.

Look this is not even that wild of a claim. I know you think it is, but that's because you aren't that familiar with card counters and card counting. Spotter on the big teams almost always track multiple tables. And solo players have been doing in for years, since before I was born. Since I mentioned it, several other counters have come forward and stated they do so. Mcap posted of a member of the well known "Church team" that did so regularly (which I was not even familiar with). You just dismissed it all because you want to believe what you want to believe. So continue to believe the earth is flat. Makes no difference to me.

[AxelWolf]

Actually it's quite simple. First we measure and plot the placement of two blackjack tables at Mirage or Bellagio. Then we go to a dealers school in Vegas and set up two tables like the setup in either casino.

The AP sits at one table playing a make believe game with a dealer while another dealer deals to another make believe game. We get "bodies" in the seats to simulate casino conditions.

Cards are dealt for X-number of hands. What's the count?

I was going to suggest someone's home or a dealers school, but i just assumed someone would claim that's not a real life situation.

[kewlJ]

I was going to suggest someone's home or a dealers school, but i just assumed someone would claim that's not a real life situation.

That is because you are well aware and have seen first hand how Alan operates.

I can guarantee, if you find someone willing to attempt this and they counted down say 3 decks at the second table and were spot on, Alan would be screaming this is not casino's conditions.

And if the counter was off by say 1 or 2....lets say with 3 decks remaining he has a running count of +14, but it was only +12 because he missed a card or two , or even god forbid, misread a card, Alan would scream "see I told you it can't be done". Never mind that the true count would still be above +4, even off by two, meaning a player advantage of close to 2% and a significant advantageous situation.

There really is no way to prove anything to someone who will not accept it no matter what...and that's what Alan is at this point.

[Alan Mendelson]

Kewlj this is your chance to prove yourself.

Axel this is BETTER than casino conditions because he won't have to worry about being detected. He just has to tell us what he sees.

[Alan Mendelson]

Let's make it even simpler. Forget about a count. We'll have a dealer and players and YOU just tell us what cards are played out to the players and to the dealer. Just prove you can see the cards as you claimed you can. You even said you could count the pips.

[RS__]

If somehow this happened, Alan would be putting 6 people on the other table as "proof" this can't be done. Lololol

[kewlJ]

Kewlj this is your chance to prove yourself.

Not interested Alan. I have no desire to prove a damn thing to you. You are a troll. If you think you are going to brow beat me as you and your cronies did to redietz, you are mistaken. You continue to live in some sort of alternative reality....one where you think that I care what you say or think.

[Alan Mendelson]

Restate your objection because I had nothing to do with what happened between redietz and Singer. I asked redietz to leave me out of it. And I'm not under any obligation to read what redietz sent to me and he knew that and now you know it. If that is an issue I will publish the email exchange between me and redietz.

Now let's get back to you proving your claims. This can be done in a way that protects your identity.

[Alan Mendelson]

If somehow this happened, Alan would be putting 6 people on the other table as "proof" this can't be done. Lololol

Since you claimed that you can count a second table why do you tell the maximum number of players that there can be at the second table for YOU to get an accurate count?

Is the maximum six? Five? Four? Three? And if it's only three players just how accurate would your count be and how deep must the shoe penetration go?

It seems to me that with three players at the second table it will take some considerable amount of time to find an attractive count but that might be too deep into the shoe to do you any good?

[kewlJ]

Now let's get back to you proving your claims. This can be done in a way that protects your identity.

Protecting my identity is only part of the issue. Granted...a LARGE part of the issue for me, because protecting my identity and longevity are absolute top priority in everything I do....every consideration I make.

But there is a second issue and that is that I have no desire to prove anything to you. You seem to think you are so important, some sort of self anointed judge of all things. You will challenge claims of a nature that you are totally ignorant of and know absolutely nothing about and demand proof. You prove this, you will prove that.

Well, you are not my judge and jury. And I am not on trail. I don't owe you anything and frankly, I don't care very much for you. I find you to be an old, broken down new guys and frankly quite a dishonest one at. The last 10 years of your career seems dishonest to me...the great "best buys guy", but if those "best buys" are paid advertisers, as they are.... that is just a scam. You are a schyster.

In addition you have exhibited that same dishonest schyster type behavior in dealing with me over the last 6 weeks.

1.) I say I track a second table from the middle seat where I have an easy view and you run out and take pictures from first base (seat one) where the players back would be to the next table.

2.) a poster, mcap posts that one of the member of the church team regularly tracked a second table and was known to stand WHEN he couldn't see over other players, and you change that to he HAD to stand.

I don't want to be mean, but I just don't think very much of you. You and what you think means nothing to me. So why would I feel the need to satisfy your ignorance.

There is absolutely no benefit to me putting on a demonstration of tracking two tables and I am quite sure you would never be satisfied, so I will not let some two-bit gnat buzzing around, some one I consider a troll, bully me into something I have no desire to do. I can make it no more clear than that.

[Alan Mendelson]

I accept that you will never show me how it's done. Stalemate. Game over.

[RS__]

If somehow this happened, Alan would be putting 6 people on the other table as "proof" this can't be done. Lololol

Since you claimed that you can count a second table why do you tell the maximum number of players that there can be at the second table for YOU to get an accurate count?

Is the maximum six? Five? Four? Three? And if it's only three players just how accurate would your count be and how deep must the shoe penetration go?

It seems to me that with three players at the second table it will take some considerable amount of time to find an attractive count but that might be too deep into the shoe to do you any good?

I don't know what the maximum is. I've done it with 1 and 2 players before, and they were playing slowly. I wouldn't try to do it with 5 on the other table. Ideally, you want to wong in with few players so you get more rounds in before end of shoe. If you wong in with 4 others, you'll get far less rounds than with 1 other player.

No idea what you're asking in paragraph 2.

#3, most shoes don't go positive. The number of players at a table doesn't make a shoe more likely or less likely to go positive. Like paragraph 2, this question doesn't make sense either.

[kewlJ]

I accept that you will never show me how it's done. Stalemate. Game over.

Even this response is very revealing. You start with a rather conciliatory “I accept that you will never show me how it’s done”. As if you have an interest in how it is done. If I thought you had a real interest, there is a much better chance that I would have shown you. But you have no interest. Your interest as an anti-AP member of this site, is trying to find a “gottcha moment” that you think exposes some...any AP. I am just your latest target. And please don’t bother responding that you are not anti-AP...that’s just more bullshit. Everyone knows that you are.

“Stalemate. Game over”. This exposes the real you. That’s all this is to you…..a game. A contest. A big pissing match. I am not interested in matching wits with any of the several anti-AP members hell bent on manipulating facts to discredit advantage play or advantage players. That’s not why I am here.

And that brings me to why am I here? Why do I log on most days and participate on a site with a handful of members, nearly half, the 3 or 4 most dominant ones are very clearly anti-AP? I ask myself this question several times a week. And I don’t have a good answer. I am banned from WoV and one of the top BJ sites because of the politics and high school ‘cliquish’ nature of those sites so I don’t have a lot of options for participating with other AP’s that I like and respects, like Mickey, RS, jbjb, Axel, when he is so inclined to participate and a few other of the reasonable members here.

Although I haven’t had much interaction with Dan, he too seems like a reasonable person (except for his decision to allow certain members that will forever dictate and limit what this site can be).

But I continue to wonder is that a real reason to put myself through the hate and anti-AP trolling that occurs here? Is there any hope for this site to be anything other than about 4 AP’s defending themselves against attacks (including personal attacks) from 4 anti-AP haters, with 2 or 3 neutral members occasionally chiming in?