Warning!! Westgate Las Vegas Players

[monet]

Plenty of Heat for AP's recently who collect free play. Some players have told me that this Casino only goes off of loses but I can confirm that is untrue. I have been getting large mailers from them for about 2 years now and am up over 100k for the year of 2017 thanks to a good run and many large jackpots. Something happened awhile back with some AP getting caught taking off free play and they are watching very closely to any and all players getting free play or large mailers. Just thought I would put a heads up for anyone who plays or wants to play over there. I know several players who have been zeroed out with no notice playing less than full pay games. Heck they pretty much took out every advantage in that Casino anyway and even the VP that was over 100% was very few and far in between. They do have some Reel plays that are at advantage and they like to move money into Reel games from time to time. A few months back they had a Reel game over 75k that was an advantage that I missed and a team of 2 APs took it down!

[redietz]

Monet, a couple of quick questions, since you seem to be familiar with Westgate. I used to wager fairly large sums there on sports (10-15 years ago) and used to get pretty good two and three night offers. I haven't gotten those since two ownership changes ago.

Here's my questions. I bet maybe 8K or 9K there on Superbowl props two years ago. I swear my comp account for sports was about $100 at that time. I haven't bet much of anything since then, and when I checked it last visit, they reported $18. Do you lose sports comps over time? I have directly asked on two occasions and received hems and haws and no clear answer -- just that I had $18. I wasn't going to throw a fit over $80 in comps, but I'd like to know off the record if they do whatever they want with them.

Second, I received one of their $99 offers yesterday. It's two nights and $100 free play, but it looks as if it involves sitting through a time share presentation. How laborious are their time share gigs? I sat through a Hilton time share presentation four or five years ago for the towers down near Circus Circus. The guy took my word I wasn't buying, and I got out of there in 25 minutes. Anybody you know have experience with the time share attitude at Westgate?

[Alan Mendelson]

the newest "trick" with time share presentations for free play or comps is this:

Now they ask you to give them an actual cash deposit and if you don't show up for the session that you paid for you lose your deposit. I ran into three different "offers" like this over New Year's Weekend.

I don't know what the Westgate time share deal is, but it wouldn't surprise me if they have a similar plan now. What one does, others copy.

Regarding the presentations: generally two hours with or without breakfast (whatever that is).

[kewlJ]

Something happened awhile back with some AP getting caught taking off free play and they are watching very closely to any and all players getting free play or large mailers.

Monet, what does this terminology "caught taking off free play" mean? I am not familiar with that?

But in general, the location has been going down hill ever since Westgate took over. back when it was LVH, it was one of our favorite properties. A reasonable amount of coin in generated decent mailers. They had reasonable blackjack. They had deep discounts at the buffet if you had a Nevada ID and paid with points, like $4 for lunch, $5 for dinner, vs the regular price of $19.99 and $24.

LVH used to be in our regular rotation, once a week. Would spend the day playing the lower strip blackjack and take the monorail, $1, with local ID to LVH. Now we visit about once every few months, if that. We don't even get monthly mailers anymore.

I also wasn't crazy about the sports book remodel. It was basically just adding all that commercial food outlets. The sports book was iconic. They should have left it alone.

[RS__]

Something happened awhile back with some AP getting caught taking off free play...

Do you know when this was?

[monet]

Something happened awhile back with some AP getting caught taking off free play...

Do you know when this was?

Not very long ago and since the backroom incident the heat is very hot. I personally have been laying very low and have decided to let all Free Play fall off. I am very careful to only take mine off. I also do not like to leave comp on my card and I take it off as fast as I can. Since they let you buy as many packs of smokes or as many bottles of booze in the gift shop with no limit I have always taken my 1000 dollar and up in comps off asap but I know they are watching players very carefully and they are watching the ten play BP game with much interest. They also seem to be going through renovations... I have recently decided to take a long break from playing with them for an extended period. For almost a year I was getting 2400 in FP x 3 plus 300 in comp x 3 but I just don't feel very comfortable over there for the time being. They recently have changed over management and added new hosts. You may play over there and not notice any problems or heat but I was just posting up a fair warning for players who might be up to a few tricks.

Monet, a couple of quick questions, since you seem to be familiar with Westgate. I used to wager fairly large sums there on sports (10-15 years ago) and used to get pretty good two and three night offers. I haven't gotten those since two ownership changes ago.

Here's my questions. I bet maybe 8K or 9K there on Superbowl props two years ago. I swear my comp account for sports was about $100 at that time. I haven't bet much of anything since then, and when I checked it last visit, they reported $18. Do you lose sports comps over time? I have directly asked on two occasions and received hems and haws and no clear answer -- just that I had $18. I wasn't going to throw a fit over $80 in comps, but I'd like to know off the record if they do whatever they want with them.

Second, I received one of their $99 offers yesterday. It's two nights and $100 free play, but it looks as if it involves sitting through a time share presentation. How laborious are their time share gigs? I sat through a Hilton time share presentation four or five years ago for the towers down near Circus Circus. The guy took my word I wasn't buying, and I got out of there in 25 minutes. Anybody you know have experience with the time share attitude at Westgate?

Usually the rule of thumb is that comp does not come off but sometimes goofy stuff happens. About 7 months or so over there they had a comp glitch so you could swipe in the gift shop or you could eat and swipe and your comp would never come off. That lasted for about 3 weeks or at least I was swiping for 3 weeks before they fixed it. Nothing new... this happens from time to time in Casinos and usually they don't bother with it. Only Circus Circus ever put me upside down for abusing them. However another guy I know swiped for over 5k with Circus Circus and they were not amused. this was back in 2011. All other Casinos that this glitch has happened to me never blinked.

Perhaps Westgate is upset about that as well but I know for a fact what happened to a certain AP who was sloppy with multiple cards and after he got back roomed they have been on the warpath.

[tableplay]

Not very long ago and since the backroom incident the heat is very hot. I personally have been laying very low and have decided to let all Free Play fall off. I am very careful to only take mine off. I also do not like to leave comp on my card and I take it off as fast as I can. Since they let you buy as many packs of smokes or as many bottles of booze in the gift shop with no limit I have always taken my 1000 dollar and up in comps off asap but I know they are watching players very carefully and they are watching the ten play BP game with much interest. They also seem to be going through renovations... I have recently decided to take a long break from playing with them for an extended period. For almost a year I was getting 2400 in FP x 3 plus 300 in comp x 3 but I just don't feel very comfortable over there for the time being. The recently have changed over management and added new hosts. You may play over there and not notice any problems or heat but I was just posting up a fair warning for players who might be up to a few tricks.

Monet, a couple of quick questions, since you seem to be familiar with Westgate. I used to wager fairly large sums there on sports (10-15 years ago) and used to get pretty good two and three night offers. I haven't gotten those since two ownership changes ago.

Here's my questions. I bet maybe 8K or 9K there on Superbowl props two years ago. I swear my comp account for sports was about $100 at that time. I haven't bet much of anything since then, and when I checked it last visit, they reported $18. Do you lose sports comps over time? I have directly asked on two occasions and received hems and haws and no clear answer -- just that I had $18. I wasn't going to throw a fit over $80 in comps, but I'd like to know off the record if they do whatever they want with them.

Second, I received one of their $99 offers yesterday. It's two nights and $100 free play, but it looks as if it involves sitting through a time share presentation. How laborious are their time share gigs? I sat through a Hilton time share presentation four or five years ago for the towers down near Circus Circus. The guy took my word I wasn't buying, and I got out of there in 25 minutes. Anybody you know have experience with the time share attitude at Westgate?

Usually the rule of thumb is that comp does not come off but sometimes goofy stuff happens. About 7 months or so over there they had a comp glitch so you could swipe in the gift shop or you could eat and swipe and your comp would never come off. That lasted for about 3 weeks or at least I was swiping for 3 weeks before they fixed it. Nothing new this happens from time to time in Casinos from time to time and usually they don't bother with it. Only Circus Circus ever put me upside down for abusing them. However another guy I know swiped for over 5k with Circus Circus and they were not amused. this was back in 2011. All other Casinos that this glitch has happened to me never blinked.

Perhaps Westgate is upset about that as well but I know for a fact what happened to a certain AP who was sloppy with multiple cards and after he got back roomed they have been on the warpath.

I heard from a friend of a friend that some fast food places have a huge latency period for gift cards (they don't instantaneously debit the card, it is done by batch processing at the end of some time interval), so a person can eat for several meals beyond the value of the card. Hopefully anyone pulling this move spreads the card around different branches of the chain . . .

[DJatc]

I heard from a friend of a friend that some fast food places have a huge latency period for gift cards (they don't instantaneously debit the card, it is done by batch processing at the end of some time interval), so a person can eat for several meals beyond the value of the card. Hopefully anyone pulling this move spreads the card around different branches of the chain . . .

This is the best thing I've read on the forum

[tableplay]

I heard from a friend of a friend that some fast food places have a huge latency period for gift cards (they don't instantaneously debit the card, it is done by batch processing at the end of some time interval), so a person can eat for several meals beyond the value of the card. Hopefully anyone pulling this move spreads the card around different branches of the chain . . .

This is the best thing I've read on the forum

Cheers M8.

[redietz]

I heard from a friend of a friend that some fast food places have a huge latency period for gift cards (they don't instantaneously debit the card, it is done by batch processing at the end of some time interval), so a person can eat for several meals beyond the value of the card. Hopefully anyone pulling this move spreads the card around different branches of the chain . . .

This is the best thing I've read on the forum

Great to know. I was completely unaware, so I thank you.

[tableplay]

I heard from a friend of a friend that some fast food places have a huge latency period for gift cards (they don't instantaneously debit the card, it is done by batch processing at the end of some time interval), so a person can eat for several meals beyond the value of the card. Hopefully anyone pulling this move spreads the card around different branches of the chain . . .

This is the best thing I've read on the forum

Great to know. I was completely unaware, so I thank you.

No problem.

[AxelWolf]

Just curious, if they could prove you were knowing doing this, could they get you for fraud?

[tableplay]

Just curious, if they could prove you were knowing doing this, could they get you for fraud?

Yes I think they could Axel. It would be difficult to prove.

[redietz]

Just as (or more) important, it prevents the consumer from spending money there they don't really have. For example, and a friend shared a story regarding this, if you check the gift card via phone or online after the spend, and you don't know it hasn't been processed, you are going to think you still have x amount of dollars. So then if you show up a week later at the same venue and order food, and now the previous order has finally been processed, you are told you're short, you're stuck paying for your food with other means when you thought your gift card still had sufficient funds.

So the delay in processing probably works overall to the vendor's advantage.

[tableplay]

So the delay in processing probably works overall to the vendor's advantage.

Redietz, you may have identified the reason that the processing latency has not been addressed. Either that or the shrinkage that occurs is less expensive than the higher interchange fees that would need to paid by the merchant for faster processing.

[Dan Druff]

A word about timeshares: It's rarely worth it.

The "90 minute" presentation is always far longer, and you are harassed by salespeople who will not take no for an answer.

It is not uncommon for them to pull a "good cop, bad cop" routine on you, with one salesman acting nice, while the other stomps around angry, accusing you of being a greedy scammer who just went to the presentation to get the prize with no intention to even consider buying. The "bad" salesman will then yell in your face, act aggressive as if he's going to hit you (but never actually does), and scream that you're costing him commission, and that he's not going to be able to make rent.

If you can withstand all of this nonsense and are fine with doing all of that for a free room, then go ahead.

But for me, it's not close to worth it.

Not all timeshare presentations are this bad, but it's often impossible to know in advance which are the bad/good ones.

Also, often you will get bait-and-switched on the gift if you don't buy anything, and it's difficult to prove. However, the ones with the free hotel room are usually legit in that sense.

[Dan Druff]

monet, can you describe what "being sloppy with multiple cards" means?

I know what you mean by multiple cards (using players club cards that are not your own), but what do you mean by "sloppy"?

[MaxPen]

Why do people feel the need to discuss in public the use of multiple cards?

[Dan Druff]

He brought it up in public. If he doesn't wish to further explain, he can either PM me or not answer at all.

[monet]

but what do you mean by "sloppy"?

slop·py
ˈsläpē/Submit
adjective

1. careless and unsystematic; excessively casual.

2. (of a garment) casual and loose-fitting.


Since you ask such an easy question I should tell you that I was referring to # 2 of the definition but of course I am referring to being careless or unsystematic. If you have ever read some of my posts on other forums or even on this forum recently you might realize that I talk a bit too much on these internet forums. My behavior on them could easily be taken as "sloppy" or even unnecessary. I have shared my exploits in life working for the Casinos in Poker (skimming) or working against the Casinos as a Player. Willie Sutton said it best when asked why he robbed banks. ("That's where the money is")

Another quote I understand all too well is from the movie Casino about the skim and about people who you pay to help you skim. If you pay a guy really well to help you steal, it only makes sense that he is gonna steal a little more for himself, right? And of course Di Nero says it best in "Heat" where he tells you that the discipline is to have nothing in your life that you can't leave in 30 seconds flat if you see the Heat coming around the corner. That is the discipline.

I agree with Maxpen that we don't need to talk about it publicly or privately. I respect him and what he does. My biggest problem is that I do not need to belong to these forums if we can't talk about some interesting things that go on inside of the Casino. I am not going to be like the self proclaimed, Wizard of Odds, and tell everyone that you shouldn't pull moves or that these things aren't realistic because they are and if a player isn't going to pull every and all available punches in his repertoire he should find another more honest line of work. These guys say online that if your card has extra free play on it that shouldn't be on it that you should inform someone and not take it. They say things like if you find a 100 dollar chip on the floor you should turn it in. Many of these type of players say "online" that if you have the card of the day and get paid an extra 25 dollars you shouldn't switch to another machine and have your buddy come in and claim it again.

I talk a bit too much and give up a little more information compared to other posters but I would say that I am on the fringes and it isn't even close to the tip of the iceberg. I might give information on small plays but I am not going to tell anyone how to really make some money. I might show them how to go about making 30k per year but I am not going to show them how to make 100k, online at least. Should I just STFU... most likely... I can see that point of view.

In this day and era it is almost impossible to get back roomed in Las Vegas. I really don't understand how this happened. Almost every day I see someone getting escorted out of the Casino screaming and cursing security and even spitting on them and they can't touch them or do anything about it. To get back roomed or not see it coming means that the player was very sloppy. Even if they got surrounded they should be able to get to the door and off the property. Perhaps I am wrong about that but if that ever happened to me they would have to use force to get me to the back because I would refuse and just keep walking to the door. They can 86 me from the property but I am not going anywhere with anyone when asked and if they use force in this day and age without me using any force I would think they would have a legal problem down the road.