2018 start

[monet]

The Wiz likes to chase eclipses... coincidence??

[kewlJ]

The Wiz likes to chase eclipses... coincidence??

There ya go!

[LarryS]

I used to accuse KJ of being emotional and over the top....but geez....

I can see how you might assume that from just my posts. You are way off base about me and my emotions. You were not there behind the scenes and you don't have all the facts regading all this, so you really can't make a good assement.

I have no clue what he said that you feel is sickening,mortifying or embarrassing. I vegly rember him saying something about disliking Valentine's day.
I don't judge what people do in their home life, I don't know all the facts behind the scenes. For all I know his Wife encouages him to say whatever it is you claims he's said. I don't think I have ever really responded to any of that garbage regarding his home life.

the "me too" movement is all about that point of view. "Oh yeah he was a sick fuck behind closed ddoors...but he sure was a great producer" "oh yeah he was a sick fuck behind closed doors but he sure was a great actor".
When the dude makes things public...then I am not inserting MYSELF into his personal life. His ass kissers will overlook things, just like the ass kissers of actors, directors,politicians overlooked things. But I am not one of his ass kissers..so I dont need to look the other way or shrug things off.

So KJ makes a quip about MS and you fly to defend him. Do you really think he needs someone to tell us that he really isnt an alien. I mean its not like KJ came here and called him a socially backward buffoon. It not like he came here and called him a cowardly misogynist, its not like he called him a weak scared little manboy. He just made a barb about aliens. And for that you needed to rush to his defense. Well thanks I know now that he is definitely not an alien. And you are on record for being on the right side of that burning issue.

[AxelWolf]

I know he didn't! that's not the point, I even thought it was funny. I just knew where it was headed. Had he not quoted me I wouldn't have even said anything.

I don't or didn't care about that comment. I was just letting him know where I stand so in the future if he doesn't feel like getting into it with me he can avoid it I'd needed.

Without a bunch of commentary ans insunuatuons can you please tell me what Mike said that was so agreegiouse? I feel you are making it seem much worse than it actually is with all your comparisons and strong words.

[kewlJ]

Without a bunch of commentary ans insunuatuons can you please tell me what Mike said that was so agreegiouse? I feel you are making it seem much worse than it actually is with all your comparisons and strong words.

I vote No. I vote we don't even had down this road. No good can come from it. How about THAT!

[LarryS]

Axel....i spent a year on the other site going back anf forth with freddy, ....both of us posting quotes ....I am not going to search it out again. But if I have to I will.
it would have blown over fast if you didnt come up with the ..look at me look at me MS , I am defending you and protecting you.

you accomplished your intent to let everyone know u are a defender of MS , and wont let people infer that he is an alien.

But in doing so you threw gasoline on a tiny ember.

you almost started a brush fire.....but I am not in the mood.

but if I was....you definitely opened up the door for one.

stop trying to be a board monitor. If you read the room, you can see that in the weeks I have been here....its not high on my list to talk about MS again. Been there done that. However if you want to start it up........

[kewlJ]

I think we should stop with the alien talk, as it is upsetting Axelwolf. Mike is (probably) not from another planet.

But if he is, I'll bet it is a planet that somehow...is short on wheels. Each alien gets one instead of two or four.

[MaxPen]

Axel....i spent a year on the other site going back anf forth with freddy, ....both of us posting quotes ....I am not going to search it out again. But if I have to I will.
it would have blown over fast if you didnt come up with the ..look at me look at me MS , I am defending you and protecting you.

you accomplished your intent to let everyone know u are a defender of MS , and wont let people infer that he is an alien.

But in doing so you threw gasoline on a tiny ember.

you almost started a brush fire.....but I am not in the mood.

but if I was....you definitely opened up the door for one.

stop trying to be a board monitor. If you read the room, you can see that in the weeks I have been here....its not high on my list to talk about MS again. Been there done that. However if you want to start it up........

[AxelWolf]

Axel....i spent a year on the other site going back anf forth with freddy, ....both of us posting quotes ....I am not going to search it out again. But if I have to I will.
it would have blown over fast if you didnt come up with the ..look at me look at me MS , I am defending you and protecting you.

you accomplished your intent to let everyone know u are a defender of MS , and wont let people infer that he is an alien.

But in doing so you threw gasoline on a tiny ember.

you almost started a brush fire.....but I am not in the mood.

but if I was....you definitely opened up the door for one.

stop trying to be a board monitor. If you read the room, you can see that in the weeks I have been here....its not high on my list to talk about MS again. Been there done that. However if you want to start it up........

You won't /can't because there is nothing that he said that really rises to the level of being modified or remotely terrible as you have described. And you know it.

[LarryS]

have it your way....Isaid I am not in the mood of rehashing it all.

there are a few hundred pages at GF...have at it.

otherwise you were there as it unfolded and was uncovred. You had the choice of being aware or discarding it,

You chose one path, I chose another.

If u are really a friend or supporter of MS.....dont go around daring people to post negatives about him

its not cool

[AxelWolf]

have it your way....Isaid I am not in the mood of rehashing it all.

there are a few hundred pages at GF...have at it.

otherwise you were there as it unfolded and was uncovred. You had the choice of being aware or discarding it,

You chose one path, I chose another.

If u are really a friend or supporter of MS.....dont go around daring people to post negatives about him

its not cool

That's because there was a nothing path to follow regarding his home life. You followed a wishful thinking path in your head. I don't care what YOU or ANYONE, but he himself said at GF or any other forum. Anyone can say anything and speculate what they wish, but that's all meaningless. I asked what HE has said about his wife that should make him sickened, mortified and embarrassed?

You are trying to play it off by claiming you are not in the mood, but there's actually something sickening, mortifying and embarraing.
The truth is... there is nothing that would rise to the level you are making it out to be. Nice try on the smoke screen and pretending you are not in the mood since you have nothing legitimate to prove what you are insinuating he said regarding his homelife.

[monet]

All I know and can say is an old an old adage that is used in poker and with gamblers in general.

If someone says this guy is a really good guy or a nice person this is because that person does not have a problem lending money out. If they say he is a real A-- or Jerk or whatever it usually means that he doesn't lend money out. I think it is pretty clear that defenders of the Wiz have a financial interest of some sort or have a future interest possibly in the wings. I suppose you can't blame anyone for trying to protect their interests. However with me or Larry S we have no interest to protect with the Wiz so we can tell him to "Jump off a Cliff" anytime we want.

[kewlJ]

I think it is pretty clear that defenders of the Wiz have a financial interest of some sort or have a future interest possibly in the wings. I suppose you can't blame anyone for trying to protect their interests.

What? Come on...this is a pretty radical statement.

Wizard is a bit of a polarizing person. His position in the AP community is unique because he runs a forum and has such influence and power over that forum and ultimately the community. In my opinion, Mike abused that power, by over moderating. A forum as part of a community such as the AP community has to be about members voicing their opinions, without forum administrators taking sides, with the exception of severe personal attacks.

The only thing I can compare it to is Wong's BJ21 and boy did they govern differently. Wong allowed AP members to have their say, to voice their opinion. You can probably count the members that were banned on one hand. Wizard has a list of banned members as long as the list of current members. Something wrong with that. To me it clearly demonstrates, Mike is unfit for that kind of situation, power and responsibility.

But any way the result are going to be just what they are. He is a polarizing figure. Many are big fans, even idolizing him. Many, feel they were not treated fairly by him and dislike him. I happen to admire him but still feel I was treated badly. But come on, those that defend him don't have a financial interest to do so. Where does that come from?

[monet]

He is a polarizing figure. Many are big fans, even idolizing him. Many, feel they were not treated fairly by him and dislike him. I happen to admire him but still feel I was treated badly. But come on, those that defend him don't have a financial interest to do so. Where does that come from?

Try to remember this... there is always a game inside the game. You think that in the world of Poker that Poker is the game? I suppose most players think that and for them it is the only game but for the more astute players "Poker" is only the gateway to the more intricate game. I am sure you are smart enough to understand what I am trying to say even if you do not agree.

I for one do not like players or people like the Wiz or Bob Dancer or other sorts that work both sides of the fence. I am not saying they are directly outing players but I know for a fact how things go. One example is that you have a lunch with a certain person who is in charge of a Casino. You work for this person and he employs you for your work done for the side of the Casino. Now this powerful person hands you a few sheets of paper that shows players numbers and what they are playing and how much they are winning and losing. Now consultants just say this person might be up to something from the information given on this sheet of paper. The next thing you know this player has been no mailed and their players card is shut down. Perhaps this is a fake news story but I do not like people who are consultants for the Casino.... honestly how can you trust them not to divulge information to the entity employing them or employing them down the road?

[kewlJ]

I do not like people who are consultants for the Casino.... honestly how you can you trust them not to divulge information to the entity employing them or employing them down the road?

I for one do not like players or people like the Wiz or Bob Dancer or other sorts that work both sides of the fence.

I have my own concerns about this situation and both forum owners that I mentioned Mike and Stanford Wong consulted for casinos and honestly it is why I have never personally met either. I have run into Mike...I mean nearly physically run into him twice at casinos and chose not to introduce myself and that was back when I was on good terms with him (on his forum). With Wong, I twice chose to not attend green chip parties that it was known would be the last of two members of his forum (failing health), because Wong would be there. So I understand your concerns.

BUT on the other hand, math guys are math guys, and their consulting with casinos is usually about Math. And while it may not benefit us (AP's) I don't begrudge them the opportunity to make money and support themselves. Nor do I THINK this is rising to the level of treason, such as an Elliot has risen too. I see no evidence that Someone like Mike betrayed anyone by divulging information to the other side. I think it was just about Math. If you know something I don't, please divulge it, either publicly or privately.

geez...you have put me in the position of defending Mike and I can assure you I am not on the payroll. I am not even on the forum.

[monet]

If you know something I don't, please divulge it, either publicly or privately.

geez...you have put me in the position of defending Mike and I can assure you I am not on the payroll. I am not even on the forum.

Let us agree that you aren't exactly defending MS. It appears you are more so defending the position of a Casino Consultant and I think you might be being a little naive... maybe you can agree with that and maybe you can't. I am not trying to insult you or your intelligence.

I will tell you one story that you can find on WoV since the Wiz posted it himself. I am not going to look it up just to prove a point but you may have already read that post. The Wiz was beating an online Casino betting sports.... Basketball if memory serves. He found a mistake in the way he was buying points so he was betting 2k intervals and at times he was betting both sides and making around a 3% edge. He is friendly with one of the owners or one of the sons of the owners or one of the higher ups... I can't remember exactly. This person only mentioned to the Wiz that he was having a really good run on the site and making some nice coin. Here comes the Wiz telling on himself how he was doing it. Needless to say the promotion/advantage was shut down soon after. My point is that he is willing to tell on himself but he is unwilling to point a finger at a piece of paper showing the fuel supply locations?? (See Movie: Hart's War... if you don't understand the reference)

It is widely accepted in most of the AP community that these consultants do not divulge or out AP's... other AP's including myself, do not accept that as verbatim, no matter how much they have helped the AP community which they have, I am not disputing that. One example is how Dancer years ago would go into a Casino for a weekend with a seminar and oddly enough after he left all the Full Pay machines were downgraded and/or the cards were cut.... coincidence??

[AxelWolf]

All I know and can say is an old an old adage that is used in poker and with gamblers in general.

If someone says this guy is a really good guy or a nice person this is because that person does not have a problem lending money out. If they say he is a real A-- or Jerk or whatever it usually means that he doesn't lend money out. I think it is pretty clear that defenders of the Wiz have a financial interest of some sort or have a future interest possibly in the wings. I suppose you can't blame anyone for trying to protect their interests. However with me or Larry S we have no interest to protect with the Wiz so we can tell him to "Jump off a Cliff" anytime we want.

I'm not sure what that means or who that's directed at. For the record, I have not taken a loan from anyone since I was young and only then for small amounts. I guess there have been a few times where I asked someone I know well to front me a few hundred until the next day if I ran out of money for some reason. Or perhaps there's a crazy poker game I'm not prepared for and going home to get cash would cost you a seat or just be a pain in the ass. Hell, they are more than likely holding some of my money from a previous play that hasn't been settled up yet.

I don't say people are nice or jerks because they loan or don't loan money. I do know I'm owed a significant amount of money from making loans. Most of it I will never get back.

I have no financial motivation for being friends with anyone.

[monet]

geez...you have put me in the position of defending Mike and I can assure you I am not on the payroll. I am not even on the forum.

Let us not forget that the Wiz decided to break down the Plaza Tax Day play for 2017 on the 5 dollar machines they had. He broke the play down to the decimal and needless to say those machines were ripped out for the promotion and future plays in general. They no longer exist. He received a tidal wave of backlash for that publicly and in private messages. You think this type of person isn't helping his employer when asked?

I'm not sure what that means or who that's directed at. For the record, I have not taken a loan from anyone since I was young and only then for small amounts. I guess there have been a few times where I asked someone I know well to front me a few hundred until the next day if I ran out of money for some reason. Or perhaps there's a crazy poker game I'm not prepared for and going home to get cash would cost you a seat or just be a pain in the ass. Hell, they are more than likely holding some of my money from a previous play that hasn't been settled up yet.

I don't say people are nice or jerks because they loan or don't loan money. I do know I'm owed a significant amount of money from making loans. Most of it I will never get back.

I have no financial motivation for being friends with anyone.

Fair Enough... I stand corrected and apologize for anything you found offensive.
I guess I am the only person in the world who has friends or defends them for monetary motivation.
I am the only one who allies myself with people who can help me in the long run and make things advantageous for both parties.
What do you expect from a criminal?

[kewlJ]

I am NOT going to lump Michael Shackleford with the likes of A Bob Dancer. Although I am not a big machine player, what I know of Dancer, I would compare more to Elliot in that he intentionally, maybe vindictively has done some treasonous things.

Your story of Mike and the sportsbook, exemplifies that he sometimes does and says things that end up hurting AP's (in the case of your story...himself), but I don't think intentionally or vindictively. It's just he has a bit of Gomer Pyle in him. Sometimes doesn't realize what he is doing or saying. I also happen to think he just doesn't understand how powerful a comment or review of a promotion FROM HIM, can be and just what the consequences can be.

I happen to think that Mike was responsible for the early shutdown of the Colorado blackjack opportunity last year that many of us were hitting hard. He sort of inadvertently mentioned it and that he would have more to say "later" and within a day or two, rules where changed cutting out most of the benefit of the play. I was playing a table that got shut down as I was playing...the day after he made the comment.

I was so disappointed that I made a comment on a small site with few members, recanting how the table was pulled out from under me, and quite possible damaged others that were still playing the lesser opportunity at lower stakes that were still allowed. We all make mistakes. You have to differentiate if someone is intentionally trying to screw other AP's.

[AxelWolf]

[QUOTE=monet;59485]

One example is how Dancer years ago would go into a Casino for a weekend with a seminar and oddly enough after he left all the Full Pay machines were downgraded or the cards were cut.... coincidence??

You only got one example?
You are way behind.
Hint, here is some public knowledge.
Ask yourself what CDC originall stood for.

And then listen to GWAE regarding the Revel Loss rebate.