Need help

[mickeycrimm]

I emailed Dancer today and asked him if he was aware that JWT was wizardofnothing. He said he wasn't and thanked me for the heads up.

[The Boz]

He was originally Jeffwarren75 on WoV, then StricklyAP and then wizardofnothing. He also came back under a few names for a short period after his final banning.

[Bennettpollockreeber]

Interesting

[LarryS]

WON was on the GF (gambling forums) board. and was very protective of wov. He would fight with Freddy, and post pictures of chip stacks to prove he was a high roller. He desperately wanted people to believe he was "somebody'.
He had a big temper, and often appeared to be an 8 year old in the middle of a temper tantrum.
On the board that was not censored for the most part....he would fly into rages against a poster Freddy....and tell him to go f his grandfather, grandmother, mother, father.....he was probably a top 2 person as far as being vile.

So KJ, are con artists untouchable as far as being exposed......either by a good Samaritan or by someone with an agenda. If the masses agree, whats the harm? Since more than one person here, who are unrelated concur that J Warren is a conman....then whats the downside to giving someone a heads up. Since con men often go by many names.....just mentioning his name does no good. THe only way to help others in this respect would be to post a picture.

I would think that gamblers, APs, etc would want a heads up...since it seems he likes to associate with them and target them

we live in the real world.
Sitting at home in your easy chair, smoking a thick pipe..its easy to talk about theories, and "whats next" if this or that is allowed....but in the end its just whining

[JeffreyTollTheConMan]

agreed!

[mickeycrimm]

I don't see how Mission could not know that Toll ripped Dancer and others off. Looks like a big scandal to me. Mission actively covering up for Toll. Smells like corruption inside WoV.

[JeffreyTollTheConMan]

Interesting

check THAT pretty face out https://jeffreywarrentoll.com/

[JeffreyTollTheConMan]

mickey, thats exactly whats happening. the great thing is this whole sham is going to come down in the best way possible. you should reach out to the email on the website. also, dancer is full of shit or just not correct in saying that jeffrey warren toll wasn't wizard of nothing, he was 100%

[mickeycrimm]

mickey, thats exactly whats happening. the great thing is this whole sham is going to come down in the best way possible. you should reach out to the email on the website. also, dancer is full of shit or just not correct in saying that jeffrey warren toll wasn't wizard of nothing, he was 100%

Dancer didn't say Toll wasn't WoN. He said he wasn't aware that Toll was WoN. He thanked me for the information.

[mickeycrimm]

When the Jeffrey Warren Toll thread was removed at WoV was there a reason given or was it done without explanation?

[MaxPen]

When the Jeffrey Warren Toll thread was removed at WoV was there a reason given or was it done without explanation?

No explanation until called out. The actions of coverup are damaging the sites credibility.

[Mission146]

I need to hit the hay because I have to get up in four hours to take the kids to school, so I'm going to keep this brief.

1.) I have explained my reasons for Nuking that post in the Miscellaneous Discussion Thread on WoV as well as what Rules I believe the post linking to the site violated.

2.) (Almost) The entirety of the text of that website has since been quoted in that thread, but the person in question's name has been changed to one of his handles. As a result, I do not believe the current standing post violates any WoV Rules. In most cases, there would be a copyright issue in quoting an entire webpage, but not in this case, because the site in question makes no claims of copyright that I can see.

3.) I am deferring the decision of whether or not the original thread can be reposted to the Wizard, so I am awaiting a response on that.

4.) I am aware that there was an issue with Bob Dancer and WizardofNothing, and I was also aware that Dancer wrote about it. I understand that Dancer later removed that posting from LVA (or wherever it was) and I don't recall ever reading it until I saw it on the website in question. My understanding was that the matter between the two had been resolved, so Dancer removed the articles.

5.) I wouldn't know about any of WizardofNothing's dealings with other people outside of the Forum. How would I? Does anyone think he would tell me about them? Does anyone think the people in question would tell me about them? They never did. I heard some murmurings about him, but nobody ever told me anything specific. Other than Admins, I only speak off of the Forum regularly to a few other people who are on the Forum, which break down as follows:

-One is an AP who lives near me and is one of my best friends.
-One knows of AP, but doesn't do it regularly, lives near me and is one of my best friends.
-One is an AP in Vegas and is one of my best friends.
-One lives fairly close to me and is a good friend of mine, he is not an AP.
-One does not live in Vegas, and does not live close to me, but he is a good friend of mine and we often talk on the phone. He is not an AP, per se, and does not go to casinos very often.
-There are two others who are AP's, do not live close to me and who I only speak to on the phone once in a while.

Therefore, the notion that I would have first hand knowledge of any of WoN's affairs that do not directly involve me is silly.

I live several hundred miles away from anywhere that WizardofNothing does anything and I have my kids some 70% of the time. The only times I even leave my general area are when I have three (or more) days in a row without the kids, and that is a fairly rare event. I write about gambling, which is my primary income and am otherwise a low-rolling machine hustler.

6.) Anyway, I made my decision based on my interpretation of the Forum Rules and for no other reason. If something similar was being said on a website that someone linked to concerning a different person, and that website contained detailed personal information, I would have made the same decision.

I alluded to this on the thread, but one of my concerns (other than mentioning his wife's personal information and picture on that site when it does not appear she is accused of anything) is that I think allowing something like that could set a precedent that could be a problem in the future.

For example, let's say someone knows KewlJ's personal information and posts that on a website and creates a thread on WoV linking to the website claiming KewlJ ripped him off; should we allow that thread to stand? My opinion is that a thread like that should not be allowed to stand due to the sharing of personal information. I could be wrong.

I know this seems different in the eyes of many people, but the question is where do you draw the line, then, on what types of accusations and backstory that a person can have that should result in us allowing links to websites that contain much of their personal information? That's really not the sort of judgment call I want to be making. Much better, in my opinion, is that we just don't allow the posting of non-volunteered personal information at all in any case.

I reiterate that I have deferred to the Wizard on this matter and am waiting for his decision. Whatever he decides is final and I have no argument to make either for or against whatever he decides.

[monet]

Nice to see you over here Mission! I have no problems with Mission or any other mods or members at WoV. I might not like their style or agree with them but I have no axe to grind with anyone on the net or in life. This also goes for my family who has basically stolen over a quarter of a million dollars from one of my other family members causing a line in the sand and communication break down. I chaulk that kind of stuff up to experience and it's just life. It might be the bitter side of life but the sweet side is never as sweet without the bitter. Heck my own demise at WoV had a moderator make up some lies and misinformation without my knowledge through PMs. When they posted up that my name change was because of security reasons I was laughing because I didn't know that. Good experience for me with some entertainment value. Live and learn and remember the train is only a one way ticket never stopping or going in reverse.

Anyways, it isn't difficult to weed out scams or cons. Especially when your dealing with the gambling community. I put the blame on the suckers. It's like people putting their life savings in the hands of some money market account. How can people trust some corporation or even an individual with their life saving!? Maxpen and Barnum and Bailey have said that every minute a sucker is born. Stings like a bitch from what I can tell and have read.

It's bad enough they have to post up pictures of the accused but to bring his wife into it is nasty. Plum Mad Dog Mean! I guess the next thing to do is to create a website and list all APs with their addresses and pictures and family photos. List their favorite games and past mistakes like adulterous behavior or how many times they have lied or broke a contract. Let's put bankruptcies and credit rating. We can list the honest APs and the Dishonest ones. After that we can post up profiles of all the Rec Gamblers and their Evil Deeds vs. their philanthropy. Yup, it's a brave new world... long live Big Brother!!

I certainly wouldn't blame WoN if he started posting up his enemies pictures and all information that he has. I'm sure he has endless information to share. I am also sure he knows plenty of dirt on his enemies as well. I can see this escalating to no end and in reality only helping the Casinos in the long run. Honestly if this is allowed you don't even need to post up the con men. You can post up the opposite side. You can profile the most well liked, honest AP of the month and all his or her information to no avail!

[RS__]

Any clue if he is also that Exorter character?

AFAIK, I'd say it's extremely unlikely Exoter = SA/WoN/JeffWarren.

I vaguely remember something like Exotard going off about how he's the greatest machine AP of all time then SA telling him he's a dumbass and he's a fag. I just kinda remember that b/c it was funny. But even so, a few other things don't match up for them to be the same person....stuff I'd rather not post (plus I'd need to double check on some shit and I'm too lazy to do that).

[The Boz]

Just a note that may or may not be correct but if you google JWT and check images, a pic of a total rewards screen comes. The name is blocked out, but begins with a J. The pic was posted by a user here ,”nerakil”. Not sure if this is just a coincidence or not but if this is a good member, they might want to know.

https://vegascasinotalk.com/forum/sh...efits-for-2017
https://www.google.com/search?q=jeff...5I6SyQPxqrmfM:

[MisterV]

Maybe I misunderstand; please correct me if this is wrong.

Mission knew SAP in the real world while SAP posted at WoV under that name.

SAP screwed somebody on a bet and was nuked.

WoN joins the board, ultimately gets nuked.

I am foggy as to whether Mission knew or should have known that WoN was in fact SAP; if he knew it was the same guy then didn't he seemingly aid and abet him in posting under a sock?

[monet]

Maybe I misunderstand; please correct me if this is wrong.

Mission knew SAP in the real world while SAP posted at WoV under that name.

SAP screwed somebody on a bet and was nuked.

WoN joins the board, ultimately gets nuked.

I am foggy as to whether Mission knew or should have known that WoN was in fact SAP; if he knew it was the same guy then didn't he seemingly aid and abet him in posting under a sock?

Well Mission is having dinner with WoN and DarkOz but Mission doesn't know SAP is WoN?

Remember now... I got banned because of pingpangpong and telling Mike to GFY. After I get banned for dupe ID everyone cries about WoN. Mike professes he didn't know anything and gets all into enforcing the rules. Moderators knew and turned a blind eye. Welcome to the unfair, unjust real world!

[kewlJ]

For example, let's say someone knows KewlJ's personal information and posts that on a website and creates a thread on WoV linking to the website claiming KewlJ ripped him off; should we allow that thread to stand? My opinion is that a thread like that should not be allowed to stand due to the sharing of personal information. I could be wrong.

Boy, if this post by mission was him "keeping it short because he had to get up in 4 hours", I would hate to see what he does with more time on his hands. Just kidding and welcome Mission.

The above quote is exactly my concern. Not specific to me, but any legit AP could be compromised, by someone with a bone to pick.

Now I am not putting this Jeffery Warren Toll person, posting as strictly AP, wizardofnothing and multiple other handles into the category of "legitimate AP". He obviously is a scam artist / con man with an agenda (far greater than I was aware of). But the fact remains, it is a very slippery slope. You start posting personal information and I have a problem with that. We can warn each other without posting addresses, phone numbers, ect. I am not even sure there aren't legal issues with that.

And in this case, as evil as the person appears to be, the so called "webpage" posted, is not even what it appears. It is made to look like some sort of official news type release, but there are no identifying anything to any organization or person....not even a byline. THAT makes it nothing more than a page designed by someone who isn't even willing to identify themselves.

So while this particular case of Jeffery Warren Toll, via various aliases and handles, one might conclude he gets what he deserves, I have concerns over future situations. Who gets to make that call?? The precedent will have been set that anyone with a bone to pick with someone, can make up an official looking "fraud alert web page" making all kinds of unsubstantiated claims and post personal information.

[LarryS]

It typical liberal nonsense. Its like the retort"I would rather see 100 guilty murderers set free than see one innocent man go to jail".
Thats nice in your armchair...except when one of those released murderers rapes and kills your husband, and another one kills a family of 4, and another one shoots up a bus of children, killing 5. while 20 others beat and batter their girlfiends.

So the retort becomes I would rather see a man raped and killed, a family of 4 slain, 5 children killed, and 20 women beaten rather than see one innocent man go to prison

its a slippery slope once an innocent man goes to prison along with those 100 real killers...isnt it.?

[kewlJ]

Look I don't care about your political views or what you view as liberal this or that. I also don't want to get into discussions about rapists and murderers and shooting up school children, as you typically go to Larry. That's NOT what this is about.

AP's fight a battle with the casino industry everyday. THIS is our livelihood! Blackjack AP's like myself more than others, but really all AP's. The industry wants to identify us and stop us from plying our legal strategies. So to that extent our privacy is paramount and I can not and will not participate on a site where doxing is permitted. This is the very reason why most AP's don't even bother with these forums.

So, as problematic as a low life scammer like Jeffery warren Toll using various handles is, I am against doxing...posting of personal information, like addresses, phone numbers and such. Again, we can warn and protect each other and post his handles and such.