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[Mission146]

I don't see how Mission could not know that Toll ripped Dancer and others off. Looks like a big scandal to me. Mission actively covering up for Toll. Smells like corruption inside WoV.

The only thing I knew is that Dancer and WoN had some sort of dispute and Dancer posted two articles (I thought it was one until yesterday) about it. My understanding was that it had been resolved, and as a result, Dancer took those articles down. I never actually saw the articles myself until yesterday on that site.

[Mission146]

Nice to see you over here Mission!

Likewise, I'd have come sooner if I knew you were here! I honestly don't think I had ever looked at this forum until yesterday, but that could be wrong.

It's bad enough they have to post up pictures of the accused but to bring his wife into it is nasty. Plum Mad Dog Mean! I guess the next thing to do is to create a website and list all APs with their addresses and pictures and family photos. List their favorite games and past mistakes like adulterous behavior or how many times they have lied or broke a contract. Let's put bankruptcies and credit rating. We can list the honest APs and the Dishonest ones. After that we can post up profiles of all the Rec Gamblers and their Evil Deeds vs. their philanthropy. Yup, it's a brave new world... long live Big Brother!!

I have no problem with the pictures in the context of a username. I agree 100% regarding the wife. I agree 100% with everything else you said.

I certainly wouldn't blame WoN if he started posting up his enemies pictures and all information that he has. I'm sure he has endless information to share. I am also sure he knows plenty of dirt on his enemies as well. I can see this escalating to no end and in reality only helping the Casinos in the long run. Honestly if this is allowed you don't even need to post up the con men. You can post up the opposite side. You can profile the most well liked, honest AP of the month and all his or her information to no avail!

Yup. You can either do that or private matters can remain private. Any allegations that have any potential legal ramifications, if they exist, could be taken through legal channels.

I HAVE TO EDIT THIS POST TO CONTINUE TO RESPOND AS I AM ONLY ALLOWED FIVE POSTS (See what happens when I try to be brief?):

Maybe I misunderstand; please correct me if this is wrong.

Mission knew SAP in the real world while SAP posted at WoV under that name.

SAP screwed somebody on a bet and was nuked.

WoN joins the board, ultimately gets nuked.

I am foggy as to whether Mission knew or should have known that WoN was in fact SAP; if he knew it was the same guy then didn't he seemingly aid and abet him in posting under a sock?

Incorrect. I never met him while he was posting as StrictlyAP and did not meet him in person until almost a year after WoN was created. I knew WoN=StrictlyAP prior to WoN being banned, but not until well after the WoN account had already been created.

Well Mission is having dinner with WoN and DarkOz but Mission doesn't know SAP is WoN?

I don't know if I knew that at that time or not. It would have been pretty close.

Boy, if this post by mission was him "keeping it short because he had to get up in 4 hours", I would hate to see what he does with more time on his hands. Just kidding and welcome Mission.

The above quote is exactly my concern. Not specific to me, but any legit AP could be compromised, by someone with a bone to pick.

I have concerns over future situations. Who gets to make that call?? The precedent will have been set that anyone with a bone to pick with someone, can make up an official looking "fraud alert web page" making all kinds of unsubstantiated claims and post personal information.

Thanks for the welcome, and always nice to see you! I appreciate that someone sees at least one of my points. I will not be the one making that call, nor do I think anyone on WoV will be. Our stance is that we do not allow the sharing of personal information that was not volunteered.

IF ANYONE WANTS TO RESPOND, IT LOOKS LIKE I WILL HAVE TO ADD MORE TO THIS POST FOR THE TIME BEING.

Actually, I deleted one very brief post, so maybe that gives me one more for later.

[Bill Yung]

Look I don't care about your political views or what you view as liberal this or that. I also don't want to get into discussions about rapists and murderers and shooting up school children, as you typically go to Larry. That's NOT what this is about.

Ha. What is the point in dredging any of this stuff up? Nobody will remember any of it, a year from now. Anyway, let's hear about it from the Wizard, instead of his minions. The guy who suckers people into gambling under the guise of helping them, to make a few bucks on the backs of their lives. Ha. I guess not. Even Trump can go out and make wind about how he won the election, so why not a bunch of minions with their crap under the guise of leadership on his own site. Don't believe this, either? Ha. His site is now the piece of shit he is. Zilch but for the hot air after the storm. Go home to your families, and make something of yourself, and let those losers fade away.

[LarryS]

I am not going to ban him for the creation of that thread. I don't believe that the creator thought he was violating any rules.>>>>Mission

now thats the sickness of the wov site. There are people with the mentality waiting and wanting to view punishment.

And there are some mods like BBB and wiz who accomdate and love to punish and as far as shackleford is concerned..he punishes as a mental salve for "bad moods".

And then there is the "fuck the rules" for the right person.

KJ didnt know he was breaking the rules at the time he was nuked for speaking on another site.
To this day no rule I broke was pointed out in my last post which cased my banning
Heck , even SAP didnt know he was breaking a board rule when he was nuked for welshing on a bet.

Yet Mission and maybe other mods knew that he was shady enough to welsh on a bet, and still accepted his new WON screen name. And accepted his advert signature . Even as a sock for SAP. Some socks are acceptable ..especially if he is your bud that helped you make money.


Mission when pointed out by maxpen that he was credibility insurance for WON when he met darkoz.....replies that he didnt enter into the conversation anddidnt speak. So what, just the presence was credibility insurance for WON.

When you are looking to reel in someone or someones daughter, its always good to be seen with credible people. At least at the time he was credible. Now he says he didnt speak so he couldnt be viewed as friend of WON. Yeah right. That is a weak argument. The silence may be factual, however the presence was worth 4k.

So we have 2 credible stories that ring true regarding stealing money. And we have a story by another wov member where he was warned by multiple people about him at a wov event.
we have 2 police mug shots, we have a listing of charges against him in the past.

and mission has an opinion as follows

"Let me be VERY CLEAR in saying that I am NOT denying that he has ever scammed anyone nor am I denying any of the specific allegations on that website. I don't have any personal or direct knowledge of his dealings with other people, so I am in no position to confirm or deny those things. "

but I understand that point of view when your buddy is being exposed. Even if he hasnt seen him in a year or 2.....they still made money together. Money will make one temper their opinions.

[monet]

Im tired of people on this forum using the word Welsh in a derogatory context. I'm offended since I have relations to the Welsh people and everyone knows that saying was an injustice since that guy never missed paying a losing bet. Ok I'm joking... I'm not Welsh or offended but as always I preach and teach that the AP way like every other way in America is Lie, Cheat and Steal. I can't fault anyone for keeping to that code but I don't like the ones who claim they are the high and mighty moral ones. I find it funny Bob Dancer has said many times he doesn't get involved in illegal or improper behavior in the Casino yet he writes a two part story of trading players cards and PIN numbers and makes deals for people to pick up free play.

[LarryS]

There was a radio show lawyer here in the BAY area who used that word and the next week publicly apologized. I have used your type of comment on wov to point put that hypocrisy where they would punish people for using "offensive" improper words, but yet themselves use "welsh" without a problem. Or mission who would mock "dumb blondes" in a joke, but you cant mock APs or asians or fill in the blank

[monet]

I agree... awhile back they had some guy making fun of the Chinese people using derogatory words and other races. They told him to cut it out but it's clear that you can say Welsh all day long. I don't have a problem with stereotypes or derogatory words. Actually, I find them humorous but yeah they are having some trouble over there recently. It's fun to watch and read. I just want ZenKing to get in the mix... he can stir up that pot pretty good at times.

[LarryS]

The mods set a precedent at wov when more than one admitted that they would "edit" MC's drunken rants ..to take out offensive language,

Soooooooo why was the post of the original poster on topic totally deleted. It seemed to have useful info...it just went overboard in some respects like a pic of his wife and real names...but most would agree the info would be helpful to the site.

So why wasnt the doxing type stuff edited out. Wgy was the baby tossed out with the bath water.

For the good of the board members, posts have been edited i the past. Could it be because mission was friends with the scammer? Was BBB friends? Wiz friends? When I say "friends" I mean professional relations.

whether he was SAP or not...there was plenty of crap out there

[mickeycrimm]

I'm a descendent of the Lewis's of Wales. In Wales one out of every 70 people have Lewis for a last name. Very prominent name there. I guess if I ever don't pay a losing bet off you can say I welshed it, since I have Welsh genes. The Welsh were very known for stiffing their English creditors.

[monet]

It wasn't that long ago the all powerful Wiz was on his forum crying about some player borrowing 2 grand off of him and after that dropping out of contact. I'm sure it's not the first time this Wizard got suckered. It's part of the lifestyle... it happens to us all or at least every AP/Gambler I have ever known including myself. One time in the Cleveland area I was trying to get into a private poker game. The guy hustling me said he needed to check my bills to make sure they weren't counterfeit. I gave him 1500 and that was that... ha ha he kept that money and I got a good lesson in my early 20s. I almost tracked him down and was gonna have a duel but someone talked me out of that possible homicide and I chalked it up.

[LarryS]

but the wiz didnt after that event see him register on his site, knowing he was a scammer, and let him advertise in the signature field so he could get new marks.

[monet]

but the wiz didnt after that event see him register on his site, knowing he was a scammer, and let him advertise in the signature field so he could get new marks.

I believe this Wizard (lol Wizard... bothers me every time I have to type that word) knows far more than he admits. What does he really care? He got his dough and keeps pressing forward. It is all a win/win for him in the long run. Honestly, he has things to do like chase eclipses and the moon and ride unicycles and solve cubes. I had a conversation with someone who knows him pretty good and meets up with him regularly I suppose. The word is that it is hard to hang out with him more than an hour. I don't know if that is true and it might be because Mike has things to do or family things to do. However, the way they told the story to me that it wasn't about that it was something about his personality that is tough to be around for long periods of time. This person wasn't too keen on giving up too much information about it but I got the jist.

[LarryS]

Freddy on GF who usually had accurate info, posted something about the wiz being involved in some event something like canoeing or something like that, and the head woman of the group asked him not toattend because he made others feel "uncomfortable"
So when I continually characterize him as socially backward.....this story, your story, and how he behaves on WOV...lend credence

[LarryS]

I believe this Wizard (lol Wizard... bothers me every time I have to type that word) knows far more than he admits....monet

I think its possible other mods were involved with WON and thats why its great for them that a sacrificial lamb has now been slaughtered.

after all, they all allowed his advert signature And they are ALL very quiet.

The man that worked for the wiz for free for many years....and in a small way helped him get his windfall profit from the site by helping to maintain the site.......gets no vote of confidence publicly FROM THE NEW MILLIONAIRE. The man that had the back of all the other mods when their actions were questioned over the years.......gets at most a half hearted "backing" from one mod.

The site already got a black eye when it was sold, as APs like axiomofchoice walked away fearing their info would be sold or used by a big company. And now a sacrificial lamb has proven contact with a known scammer. Not a good week for WOV.

Mission had been known for punishing people with the phrase "you are the weakest link" as a joke before he suspended.

It seems now that he is just that himself.

irony

[MisterV]

I've met him at a couple of WoVCons, and my read on him is a bit different.

He seemed pleasant, and willing to socialize with others of a similar mindset, i.e. gamblers.

Oft-times math boyz can have a touch of autism/Aspergers which I would not rule out, but it would be just a touch.

I suspect that at the end of the day he, like me, prefers his own company to that of others.

[LarryS]

And the neighbors of most mass murders insist the man next door was pleasant and cordial. In your case and in their cases....there is not a proper or significant cross section of time to view the real person that makes your comments or their comments of any significance.

he is a nice guy that admits to punishing people when he is in a bad mood.
he is a nice guy that claims that the suspension list must not be removed so as to cause the proper infliction of "shame"
he is the nice guy that disrespects his wife repeatedly
he is a nice guy that manages a board that fields customer complaints with "dont let the door hit you "

you said in the past that you didnt spend more than a few minutes in his presence.....you didnt hang with him and his hanger ons. Heck, everyone is a nice guy in a small snapshot of time.

but the above is a nice post to keep you in good graces on wov.
well played.
consider yourself having a special consideration when you step over the constantly moving line.

[MisterV]

Cute, LarryS., real cute.

It was more than a few minutes.

We had lunch at Paris one time, at least an hour or two, then the same amount of time a couple years later at MSS.

After MMS we gambled for a half hour or so downtown.

Plenty of time to get a "read" on him.

My observations stand.

[Mission146]

That's right, this. Busy few days.

I already see that LarryS has decided that any positive opinions from MisterV are to keep MisterV in the good graces of WoV. Big surprise. Negative opinions are essentially complete proof and positive opinions must be motivated by something other than someone speaking as to their experience.

Anyway, I think I have only hung out with Wizard in person three or four times for any length of time exceeding five minutes. One time was for several hours, but it was kind of as a group that got smaller as the night went on. I enjoyed the entire night. One other time I remember was three of us, I think I must have forgot to set my stopwatch and make a video recording of said stopwatch, but I'm 99.978% sure it had to be more than an hour.

So, as to, "More than an hour," I can definitely hang out with him for more than an hour. I don't know how many hours the limit would be. I think I could start hanging out with him an hour after waking up and go until bedtime without getting tired of hanging out with him. Does that restart the timer? I guess it would.

Nobody wants to be around me within an hour of my waking up, usually. Sometimes I wake up pretty well and other times...ugh. It probably takes two or three cups of coffee before I could be described as anything other than, "Grumpy, insufferable prick."

[monet]

I dunno Mr V contends many people on WoV. I've seen him get ugly even ugly reactions towards Mikes decisions. Although Mr V could be the next Mod so he gotta keep things cool with this Wizard.

Now with Mission he clearly has a conflict of interest you can't expect him to bad mouth the all powerful, mighty Wizard. It would be like AxelWolf coming in here with his stories... you know it's gonna be pro Wizard.

My story is about someone who deals with him regularly but that doesn't mean that it's all on Mike... it very well could be the other persons problem. Now isn't Mike the guy who has to plan his day driving only making left handed turns??

[MisterV]

I've zero interest in being a mod at WoV or at any other site.