The WoV Thread

[Bill Yung]

And, each of us is someone's competition (in the world of gambling)? I rest my case.

[kewlJ]

Oddly, it's in your best interest to have your potential competition believe in such bullshit claims.

It is, jbjb. And many AP's take that approach and just say nothing. But some of us feel like we should call "bullshit" on BS claims. NO you can't win playing martingale! No you can't win a million dollars (Rob Singer) playing negative EV video poker! No you can't gain that kind of advantage (5%) from card counting via a stronger count!

And it gets really freaking for me when the site owner, a known math guy not only allows such claims, but disallows those challenging them, in effect protecting fraudulent BS claims.

[jbjb]

Oddly, it's in your best interest to have your potential competition believe in such bullshit claims.

It is, jbjb. And many AP's take that approach and just say nothing. But some of us feel like we should call "bullshit" on BS claims. NO you can't win playing martingale! No you can't win a million dollars (Rob Singer) playing negative EV video poker! No you can't gain that kind of advantage (5%) from card counting via a stronger count!

And it gets really freaking for me when the site owner, a known math guy not only allows such claims, but disallows those challenging them, in effect protecting fraudulent BS claims.

I felt the same way. Now I prefer the Singer's, Patrick's, etc., supplying their load of nonsense they claim on the neophytes. It's good for us.

It's like biting your tongue at the tables when you here the ploppies talk the same nonsense. Just let them say it and believe it.

[kewlJ]

And, each of us is someone's competition (in the world of gambling)? I rest my case.

I joined the Blackjack AP community 12 years ago, the old blackjack info site (since re-incarnated). And I learned a great deal from that site. Some members were very helpful, sharing knowledge and experiences of which I benefited. Others didn't share much. They took that approach of "why should I help someone and create possible completion for myself". That is fine. BUT, there is a difference between deciding not to help newer members and intentionally providing complete false damaging information to harm them.

I know I have created completion for myself here in Vegas by sharing my experiences. I know this because a couple who didn't succeed have blamed me and spent time attacking me. I also know and communicate with a several that have had some levels of success. I even sold my second house to one transplanting young up and coming AP a few years ago. That's the way it goes. Others helped me. I am willing to share my experiences and hope others benefit, even if it is not in my best interest to do so.

Everyone doesn't have to have my attitude. You can choose not to help or be helpful. But you don't have the right to intentionally make false BS claims trying to harm upcoming AP's. And why a site owner, a math guy himself, would allow someone to do that and then choose to protect them is even more bizarre. THAT is a con!

[jbjb]

I just see bjtf as a place to talk blackjack, no matter how you play the game.

[Bill Yung]

I felt the same way. Now I prefer the Singer's, Patrick's, etc., supplying their load of nonsense they claim on the neophytes. It's good for us.

I suppose that there is a balance in putting out your own way, and pointing out the mistakes in an other's.

[kewlJ]

I felt the same way. Now I prefer the Singer's, Patrick's, etc., supplying their load of nonsense they claim on the neophytes. It's good for us.

It's like biting your tongue at the tables when you here the ploppies talk the same nonsense. Just let them say it and believe it.

I am ok, with you feeling that way. I am ok with you deciding not to share much that might benefit others. But, I am NOT ok, if you decided to repeatedly post and claim something completely false, trying to damage newer players.

Now I don't get all bent out of shape about all of these kinds of incidents or claims. Often I say nothing. I figure newer players have some responsibility to figure out who is credible and who isn't. You have probably seen me post that "it doesn't take that much to figure out who knows what they are talking about and who is just talking".

What made the case of poster T3 on Qfit's site (which led to my banning at WoV) so different was the egregious level of these BS claims and intent to mislead. This member made hundreds, maybe thousands of very long posts, with all kinds of misleading formulas and cherry-picked data that that looks like it supports these impossible claims, but actually often completely contradict these claims. It was all designed just to muddy the waters.

And it worked. Not only were newer members being mislead, but some experienced players, were almost buying into it. THAT is why I spoke up. And it wasn't just me. There were two other professional players likewise spoke up and challenged these BS claims. And these were both 2 guys with no history of drama or confrontation. Like me, they both just felt they could not sit back and allow this kind of misleading BS.

[kewlJ]

I just see bjtf as a place to talk blackjack, no matter how you play the game.

It was....at the beginning. Modeled after blackjackinfo which closed. But in recent years it has turned into a handful of members with an agenda promoting false claims.

I don't participate at the various video poker forums, but it is my understanding that when someone like a Rob Singer shows up making ridiculous claims like he made a million dollars playing negative-EV games, he is repeatedly challenged by the people that know better.

If someone shows up at WoV saying you win at roulette by waiting for 4 or 5 reds or blacks in a row and then martingaling the opposite, you can damn well bet he/she will be challenged and shot down.

If Alan Mendleson shows up anywhere, saying he saw 18 y.o.'s in a row, he is challenged by people that know better.

So it is truly bizarre that a blackjack site, run by a math guy, would not allow challenges to even more egregious and ridiculously false and mathematically impossible claims.

[jbjb]

So, you make the counter claim and leave it at that.

Jstat here constantly tries to debunk hi-lo, Thorp and others but you don't see those people going after him.

[kewlJ]

Jstat here constantly tries to debunk hi-lo, Thorp and others but you don't see those people going after him.

He doesn't do much of that anymore because he seems to have moved on to baccarat, but yes, I did see Jstat debunked on every blackjack site that he spewed that nonsense.

And not once did I see anyone who debunked Jstat's false nonsensical claims banned from a site.....nor the owner of that site try to extend that censorship by influencing and manipulating other site owners to do that same.

[monet]

AxelWolf and the WoVers have another thread about another WoVer passing away. This member left because he was suspended for three days and didn't agree with it. A member of WoV doesn't agree with being suspended or banned unjustly? Hard to believe!?

Also these members like AW can't comprehend these members passing away because they don't have enough experience with family or friends passing away!? Well... they better wake up and get ready because it is coming and can not be stopped and guess what? It comes faster than anyone can imagine! These forums are full of atheists and believers that nothing happens after death. If this is what you truly believe stop telling people to Rest In Peace. Try to own your beliefs that nothing happens after passing away. How can you be taken seriously when you don't believe in God or Churches but you show up to Chuches and Funerals giving eulogies? I expect this from these obvious hypocrites though that can't stay consistent with their actions and beliefs.

[monet]

Here are some quotes for you smarter fellas to ponder...

1. It is a double pleasure to deceive the deceiver.

2. Life is full of little betrayals.

3. One day you wake up and realize you've been nothing but Satans little helper.

[tableplay]

Here are some quotes for you smarter fellas to ponder...

1. It is a double pleasure to deceive the deceiver.

2. Life is full of little betrayals.

3. One day you wake up and realize you've been nothing but Satans little helper.

You tuned into HBO 2nite also !! Great flick, I really enjoyed it and hope there is a sequel.

[mickeycrimm]

There is still nothing but silence from axel on SAP/WON. He quit posting here when the story broke on WoV. I think he knows he will be questioned about it if he posts here.

The Wizard has let it be known with his nuke of waxie22 that no one will be allowed to ask penetrating questions about the relationships between WON and certain members, mods and administrators of WoV. His reason for nuking waxie22 was "suspicion of duplicate account." Where is the rule that covers that one? The Wizard did not initially delete all of waxie22's posts but did delete the most important one. But after being criticized for deleting only that one post it looks like he went back and deleted the rest.

Everyone is left with "you have to cover your own ass" on dealings with WON. For any of you who may sign up for Latest Casino Bonuses, remember, if you get ripped off, YOU HAVE TO COVER YOUR OWN ASS! The Wizard of Vegas Forum has turned into a HALL OF SHAME.

There is a ton of shit being covered up.

[kewlJ]

The Wizard of Vegas Forum has turned into a HALL OF SHAME.

There is a ton of shit being covered up.

It really has! What WoV has become is very sad. That site has ZERO to do with advantage play or gambling despite that there may be a few threads pretending to be of those topics.

I don't know if the site has changed, going down hill in a big way, in the past few years, or if I just wasn't aware what it really was, but that is NOT the site that I joined and tried my best to contribute positively to. AND, Mr. Shackleford is NOT the person that I thought he was....and I am not saying that to be mean. He seems to have some real issues! He seems to need some sort of power trip to make himself feel significant.

[monet]

There is still nothing but silence from axel on SAP/WON. He quit posting here when the story broke on WoV. I think he knows he will be questioned about it if he posts here.

The Wizard has let it be known with his nuke of waxie22 that no one will be allowed to ask penetrating questions about the relationships between WON and certain members, mods and administrators of WoV. His reason for nuking waxie22 was "suspicion of duplicate account." Where is the rule that covers that one? The Wizard did not initially delete all of waxie22's posts but did delete the most important one. But after being criticized for deleting only that one post it looks like he went back and deleted the rest.

Everyone is left with "you have to cover your own ass" on dealings with WON. For any of you who may sign up for Latest Casino Bonuses, remember, if you get ripped off, YOU HAVE TO COVER YOUR OWN ASS! The Wizard of Vegas Forum has turned into a HALL OF SHAME.

There is a ton of shit being covered up.

No questions were answered or acknowledged. What I remember about the original questions were... why doesn't DarkOz explain why he allowed his own daughter pay and get involved with buying cards for 4000 cash upfront? Why does DarkOz tell a story of getting conned but refuses to explain it in greater detail if he is so innocent. What kind of father brings his daughter into these dealings?

BBB explains that nobody honest can get hustled or conned. She doesn't expand or even discuss the issue any further. The next time you hear from her is about closing the thread. You have some really smart guy Zcore 13 who says he logs in at least three times a day for 8 years straight but has no idea SaP is WoN? This guy is connected to all these WoVers but we are to believe nobody warned him at any time about WoN.

Many members warn each other about WoN privately for over a year but nobody says one word publicly?? So they all cry and cry foul once the Crew gets scammed or someone posts publicly about WoN. So you have all these members warning each other but nobody warns their leader the Wizard... who is gonna believe that BS?

So the Wizard makes a statement about WoN saying he had suspicions for over a year but no proof so nothing could be done. He states after banning Monet0412 that so many members complained about WoN that he pmed him to get his self resignation. So this means if Monet0412 doesn't get banned that WoN wouldn't of been banned. One can only conclude that WoN was partnered with the inner circle and many members that nobody wanted him banned.

You have GWAE involved in a western union scheme that works fine until the last hammer getting conned out of 750 dollars. Him and DarkOz don't tell their story for 8 months... if they are such honest people why do the withhold this information for 8 months? If it is because they were embarrassed why aren't they still embarrassed?

You have the biggest Wolf who is AW... a know member who recruits relentlessly on WoV but has not one thing to say about WoN? After this WoN fiasco he hasn't talked about teams or gambling or recruiting... now he talks about Netflix and TV shows or things like that!? You also have people like Romes who has nothing to say? Bob Dancer has no interest or comment?? The owners and people above the Wizard say nothing... nothing!?

After all this you have Mission who meets WoN in person and honestly that's pretty bad. He claims ignorance but it just is going to hurt credibility because of such deep association. This doesn't mean he did anything wron but just having lunch and other meet ups with WoN is going to create suspicion. Nobody believed Bernie Madoff when he said his sons had no knowledge so the same goes for people hanging with WoN.

You have Face screaming he knew but never was contacted about it. Well... he is a MoD. He is supposed to do his job and get on the ball asking all other Mds and the Wizard what they think?

The truth is that it all stinks. They let WoN and other recruit on their site and advertise they are hiring. However, they want people to believe it's not their fault and they don't know anything. You even have RS warning people and watching WoNs buddies scam but he says nothing publicly and he claims he is the honest Abe's of them all. It's all very fishy but eventually it will blow over and business as usual.

They are so worried and guilty or guilty by association that they have to make Spring Fling 2018 private and invitation only!?

[monet]

Double post

[blackhole]

Throughout my life anything more than the occasional vacation where casinos existed, or an occasional weekend visit to A.C. / Las Vegas for special shows, fights, performances, business presentations, etc. would always be kept private amongst certain friends.

I’m not sure if that view still exists today, especially when you consider how fucked up the left wing liberal nuts are endlessly contaminating our kid’s views recruiting them at an early age that their beliefs are the right beliefs without allowing any reasonable debate. But casino gambling in the business world was a no-no and best kept secret for most who did it.

Regardless, in the non-gambling world, anything more than the occasional gambling visit was considered taboo and would carry with it a negative view from most of the people you’re surrounded by on a daily basis. If you were a known gambler, your opportunities would shrink or actually become non-existent. Uncertainly and distrust seemed to always be towed behind open gamblers.

Maybe, because the mob actually started the whole Vegas thing, maybe, because of the amount of lives proven to be affected by it in a negative way over time. Broken homes, children being cheated out of a normal life, divorces, stealing to gamble, the list could go on for pages. Many people were fortunate to make enough money to enjoy the thrill, and most knew when to draw the line. Anything less would always lead to problems if not disaster.

The good list is very short. The one in a million jackpot that changes a life hopefully for the better. Owners and operator profits, early stock investors. Getting to shake hands with people like Frank Sinatra. Of course, we can’t forget about the hustling AP’s, at least according to these gambling forums, filled with alleged AP’s making alleged livings off it.

The poker rush at one time gave a great opportunity early on to certain players to cash in big time. But all those tricks of the trade were exposed, and for the most part although having poker talents could still be an advantage to a point, to win big today you need the right BINGO card, and all your stars need to be aligned.

I love when AP’s want to bring up the rare AP play like Don Johnson’s negotiated blackjack advantage, (that still had the chance of going bad) All anyone needed to get that deal was to prove to the casino you were willing to lose a few million dollars. That one-shot wonder deal will never happen again. How about Phil Ivey and his baccarat two-shot wonder? From what I recall he never got the 8 million from London and has to return the 10 million he won to Borgata. Besides, Ivey could eventually become just another poker AP'er has been if he doesn’t run for the hills while he still has a few bucks left. Time will only tell.

The hustling AP’s all over these forums as far as I’m concerned are two-bit bullshit artists. I joined a couple forums just to challenge the AP hustling bullshit I was reading about. The only one I almost was able to get close enough to for a challenge, was the biggest hustler of all WON.

Maybe, certain AP’s did make some money hustling all over the country with connections, and scams. Maybe they were in the right places at the right time. Heck, there was a time BJ was a good thing. Yet, like all exposed Advantage Plays their all in the rearview mirror.

Thanks to Monet and guys like Mickey for exposing the hectic hustling AP’ing life actually is. I also understand how some AP hustlers coming from the homeless ranks at one time consider themselves blessed. I consider myself fortunate I never had to experience that form of hustling.

I also believe that most hustling AP’s doing this for their full time living, support themselves as much as possible off the government for health care and back up, and will eventually count on this to live period.

[Bill Yung]

It's amazing how the Wizard and other scams were able to pull off their alternate reality to as many for as many years as they did. The Yellow Brick Road version. No alternative in an alternate reality.

[monet]

Trust me... being an AP... lol nobody in the real world even knows what an advantage player is so better to just say professional gambler. However, you can't tell regular people your a professional gambler. It is still frowned upon. It is better to say your a dealer in the Casino working for a paycheck. People can handle that story when your having dinner with family and their friends.