Interesting perspective on tipping from a casino dealer

[Dan Druff]

I have a Facebook friend who is a dealer at a California Indian casino. She isn't a close friend, but more of an acquaintance -- actually a friend of a friend. I get along with her, but we aren't close, and in fact have never met in person.

Her life story is actually interesting (former stripper & bit-part actress in the '70s and '80s, but is now near 60 years old), but I'm not going to talk about that in this post.

Instead, I will discuss a post she made about a guy who tipped her after she dealt him a $14,000 jackpot hand in Ultimate Texas Holdem.

NUTHIN' LIKE PAYING OUT A $14,000 JACKPOT & GETTIN' A $100 TIP! WOO - HOO!!

ULTIMATE TEXAS HOLDEM

DELT HIM A STRAIGHT FLUSH ON THE FLOP SO HE GOT 10% OF THE $140,000 JACKPOT

So the "woo - hoo" clearly seemed sarcastic, but I just wanted to make sure.

Are you happy with the $100 tip or do you think it should have been more?

HELL NO I'M NOT HAPPY! THAT'S NOT EVEN 1%!

Okay, so that's what I thought.

Now I should give you perspective from the other side.

Ultimate Texas Holdem is a negative expectation game, meaning that players will lose over time. The guy who hit the $14,000 jackpot has likely lost far more than that at casinos in the past year.

While $14,000 seems like a big score on the surface, in truth it's just getting back a fraction of the money the guy has lost gambling at casinos like yours.

While I understand that the dealers work for tips, you can't expect large tips when people hit a big score, because they are probably still losing overall.

Similarly, you don't tip them when you deal them bad cards and they lose (which is most of the time).

$100 is actually a pretty good tip for a dealer. You should put out of your head how much he "won", and instead be happy that someone gave you an extra $100 for doing your job as you normally do.

While some players may tip more on jackpots like this, you shouldn't EXPECT such a tip.

In fact, unrealistic expectations of high tips is why I stopped tipping dealers entirely. I found that if I gave them what was fair/realisitc, they gave me a sour face and acted like I was an asshole. So if I'm going to be an asshole for tipping them something fair, I'd rather be the same asshole in their eyes and keep the tip I was going to give them.

Thoughts?

[pkspins]

I wonder what kind of tip she expected to get? I guess I'm curious as to what she's normally receiving from big winners that the $100 was not enough.

[Dan Druff]

She was hoping for 5% (lol)

But then she made a follow up post to mine, seemingly contradicting everything else she was saying.

In the follow up, she claimed that she "never expects tips".

However, clearly she was disappointed by the $100.

What I said at the end regarding tipping casino dealers is true. I used to do it, but after I got repeated bad reactions for not tipping "enough", I just gave up on tipping them altogether.

[RS__]

Yup, that sounds about par for the course.

All the time in the break room I'd hear a dealer say "So n so just won $5,000 off my table and he tipped me $100." I'd give a "Hell yeah, nice!" because, well, $100 is a nice tip. The dealer tried explaining to me he should have been tipped AT LEAST $500 which is 10% which is a shitty tip, but it should have been $1,000 because that's 20%.

Someone wins $100 on my (craps) table, he tosses in $2-3, and a little while later dealers are saying he's a stiff, blah blah blah, he should'a tipped $10+. I'm thinking holy crap, what planet do you live on!?

I tried to explain to the dealers I worked with that at the end of the day, the tips you get on your table don't really matter -- we're a big enough casino where we're pretty much guaranteed our average tip amount +/- 10%...our paychecks were like clockwork (tips are pooled). Anyway, I also tried to explain the best way IMO to get more tips is to say thanks to everyone who puts out a tip and at least make them feel appreciated (whether you genuinely appreciate the tip or not). Idk how many times I'd been dealing craps or blackjack, someone has a $1 tip our for me...and after the bet loses I'd say, "Hey man, thanks for the try, I appreciate it" or something like that....then after a few times of that, then other people realize that "tipping exists" and they start throwing out $1 or $2 tips. If the table gets hot, those $1 bets on the line now suddenly have $2-3 in odds behind them and you got 3-4 players tipping you, after a while they turn to $5 on the line and now I've dropped a couple hundred in the box.


Then again, after work one day (I wasn't there, unfortunately) a dealer hit a 25c RF on VP for $1k. He tipped the bartender $200 and the 3 others he was with $100 each. I.....I just can't even...


Whenever I played table games (mostly card counting BJ), I'd tip $1 every few hands, trying to tip about $5-10/hour. Most of the time the dealer would give a "thanks for the try" or "appreciate the toke" or even just a head nod like a mutual "I see you, thanks" kinda thing. Every now and then a dealer would make some dumbass remark or would completely ignore the toke bet.....yeah, I'm not tipping more after that. I'd rather be an asshole with an extra $10/hour than the asshole he's giving a dealer $10/hour.

[nerakil]

Dealers and slot attendants should never EXPECT a tip.

I hit a Royal Flush recently on free slot play while on vacation in Las Vegas, and was about to happily tip a $20.00. The slot attendant took 30-40 minutes to return with the handpay and W2-G. She came back with $5,500.00 in hundreds and 6 twenties. I tipped her nothing and gave two EVS employees $10.00 instead on my way out.

[redietz]

I feel pretty much as you do, Dan. The last two times I hit a royal, I tipped $20 and got sour looks. So I'm tipping zero from here on in. I have never tipped at table games unless I won something at small poker tournaments, and then I feel like an idiot because the house take on those is like friggin' keno. I play in them just because compadres are in them, and I'm being social, so I understand it's a dumbass situation going in, thus I tip.

What really blows my mind is people tipping when they cash sports bets! You gotta be kidding me. That was pretty much nonexistent in the 70's or 80's. I have cashed some sizable futures in my time in Las Vegas, and I can tell you that not only did I not tip people, I fought tooth and nail to get free lunches and dinners out of them because, what, you're not really going to allow me to walk off property with this chunk of your money, are you? Not without at least trying to keep me here, right? I was tooth-and-nail for every penny advantage.

[Alan Mendelson]

$100 on a $14,000 win is a good tip. 1% would have been $140.

Personally I would have tipped $150 to $200. But not more than $200.

[blackhole]

$100 on a $14,000 win is a good tip. 1% would have been $140.

Personally I would have tipped $150 to $200. But not more than $200.

That’s because you’re a normal gambler having a good time, not concerned about the petty fight for your life EV loss.

[regnis]

Would anyone feel any different at a local casino where you play regularly and you know the slot attendants by name and talk to them like friends and see them every few days?

[Rob.Singer]

I enjoy reading threads like this, although it bothers me some that a few people will still tip no matter what the circumstances.

Eventually, everybody will come around.....

[Rob.Singer]

Would anyone feel any different at a local casino where you play regularly and you know the slot attendants by name and talk to them like friends and see them every few days?

Nope. I'm not there to make friends, socialize, or worry or care about how much money they make, who and what they are, or if they're currently facing a myriad of personal problems. I'm simply there to make money period.

[pkspins]

Dealers and slot attendants should never EXPECT a tip.

I hit a Royal Flush recently on free slot play while on vacation in Las Vegas, and was about to happily tip a $20.00. The slot attendant took 30-40 minutes to return with the handpay and W2-G. She came back with $5,500.00 in hundreds and 6 twenties. I tipped her nothing and gave two EVS employees $10.00 instead on my way out.

Breaking one of the $100s into $20s is always my signal to tip less. Sorry if I need a HP broken down into smaller bills I will ask.

[regnis]

Would anyone feel any different at a local casino where you play regularly and you know the slot attendants by name and talk to them like friends and see them every few days?

Nope. I'm not there to make friends, socialize, or worry or care about how much money they make, who and what they are, or if they're currently facing a myriad of personal problems. I'm simply there to make money period.

I don't disagree. But there is some degree of discomfort when these people are friends, clients, or just so familiar from years of interaction. You may not be looking to make friends but shit happens.I think it is different for someone that spreads their play over more casinos or just goes to Vegas a couple times a year. In the local casinos, you deal with the same people every day.

I had a similar problem when a pit boss who was also a client was forced to tell me I couldn't throw the dice. He didn't want to do it but it came down from upstairs and I could see it in his eyes. I probably wouldn't have argued with them anyway but in that case I really couldn't.

[Ozzy]

Dealers and attendants, have a huge sense of entitlement,no matter how poorly they do their job....Big goose egg from me!!

[monet]

First off she isn't going to see much of the 100 dollar tip. Even if the guy tipped 500 dollars she isn't going to see much of it since the tips are pooled and put on your check and taxed. This is one reason when I hit large jackpots that aren't normal I will try to give them an envelope with a card and a gift card inside. You used to be able to give employees a sealed envelope with cash but most Casinos in LV changed that rule and now they have to open it and if cash is inside they have to pool it. Some places I have heard that they have to throw away the gift card if given. This depends on the Casino and current rules which are getting tighter and depends on what shift and who is working. Graveyard is more relaxed in general.

As I have said many times... this is kickback city... tips are part of the culture. If you don't want to tip don't tip. If you don't want to tip your server or buffet server or car wash guys... don't tip them. Stop crying about if someone gave you a sour look because you don't tip. Either tip or don't tip and live with your choice.

For me... I like to tip employees that I know that I am going to deal with all the time and I like to grease the wheels with management or hosts because I know they have meetings about players and they can help in many situations. When you tip a dealer a 100 dollar Walmart card they keep the whole tip... when you break them off cash they have to chop it up and even the IRS gets a share. This is all personal preference... when I tip I like the individual to get the tip and since I don't really play on day or swing shift I don't like those employees getting a cut and I really hate that the tips get taxed so I go out of my way to take care of employees. Many times they know that I will come back later in a day or two and hand them an envelope when I have time.

Anyways... it is different for me because I deal with this issue constantly. No right or wrong answer but I do know that if your going to be in the Casino constantly APing you want some friends on the other side. I know for a fact that many APs who used to fight for vision machines and progressives get a reputation as someone who doesn't tip and these employees constantly talk to others about it. Some APs have actually been no mailed or 86'd because of the aggressive nature of how they vulture. You guys want to be like ZK and rock the boat in the Casino and get a certain reputation that is fine... I am ok with that but I am just saying that you want to be low key and unknown and not cause problems like ZK with his passing out fliers and ideas of lawsuits.

Another interesting note is that I have had employees text me or let me know when certain jackpots or progressives are high because I comped them an expensive meal or gave them a hundo for Christmas. I have had hosts actually lock up the machine for me and call me to let me know to get down to the Casino which actually is worth it versus the tips in the long run. Sometimes management or hosts know that they are gonna dump 5k into some reel progressive making it a huge AP play and they have informed me. Same goes with friendly Bartenders that I have tipped well. Many angles in this AP world.

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I don't know Rob Singer and haven't got into any debates with him and don't plan to but I am curious about his posting and reinstatement... I thought he was only allowed to post in that one thread... did that rule change?

[RS__]

Dealers and slot attendants should never EXPECT a tip.

I hit a Royal Flush recently on free slot play while on vacation in Las Vegas, and was about to happily tip a $20.00. The slot attendant took 30-40 minutes to return with the handpay and W2-G. She came back with $5,500.00 in hundreds and 6 twenties. I tipped her nothing and gave two EVS employees $10.00 instead on my way out.

Breaking one of the $100s into $20s is always my signal to tip less. Sorry if I need a HP broken down into smaller bills I will ask.

Yup, this is incredibly annoying...especially if you hit for something like $1280 and you get $1100 in hundreds and then $180 in 20s.

Although I'm not completely convinced it's due to tips. I know a lot of ATM machines will give you your last $100 in $20's. I suspect there are a number of people who want to have $100 in 20's and they do it for that reason....or at least I'd like to hope so.

[Rob.Singer]

Money, you're probably correct. I'm just guessing that wherever my name is brought up without me first entering a thread, then it's OK to reply. With tipping, I've posted a lot in the past about why it is stupid to tip on handpays, at the cage, or any slot attendant and ESPECIALLY not a host. You're either there to make money or you're there to socialize. I make money, and I couldn't care less about feeling intimidated over this or that, how it might be when I see the slot attendant on my next handpay, at the bar down the street, when I face them at church on Sunday, or when they bring their teenager over my house to babysit. I don't tip period. I did not ask them to give me a handpay or a tax form. I do tip lucratively anyone whom I ask a favor or a service of. Hotel maids are not one of them.

[mickeycrimm]

According to the Culinary Union the maids in Las Vegas make 50% more in wages than maids in other large towns. And also according to the Culinary Union about 1 in 5 people tip the maids which adds to their bottom line.

[mickeycrimm]

Money, you're probably correct. I'm just guessing that wherever my name is brought up without me first entering a thread, then it's OK to reply. With tipping, I've posted a lot in the past about why it is stupid to tip on handpays, at the cage, or any slot attendant and ESPECIALLY not a host. You're either there to make money or you're there to socialize. I make money, and I couldn't care less about feeling intimidated over this or that, how it might be when I see the slot attendant on my next handpay, at the bar down the street, when I face them at church on Sunday, or when they bring their teenager over my house to babysit. I don't tip period. I did not ask them to give me a handpay or a tax form. I do tip lucratively anyone whom I ask a favor or a service of. Hotel maids are not one of them.

Then Alan and BH can get you into any thread just by mentioning your name.

[Ozzy]

F

Money, you're probably correct. I'm just guessing that wherever my name is brought up without me first entering a thread, then it's OK to reply. With tipping, I've posted a lot in the past about why it is stupid to tip on handpays, at the cage, or any slot attendant and ESPECIALLY not a host. You're either there to make money or you're there to socialize. I make money, and I couldn't care less about feeling intimidated over this or that, how it might be when I see the slot attendant on my next handpay, at the bar down the street, when I face them at church on Sunday, or when they bring their teenager over my house to babysit. I don't tip period. I did not ask them to give me a handpay or a tax form. I do tip lucratively anyone whom I ask a favor or a service of. Hotel maids are not one of them.

Then Alan and BH can get you into any thread just by mentioning your name.

Singer and no tip Bundy go hand in hand...The king of stiffs!!