Question for APs

[Moses]

They haven't gotten in my head Moses. I am just correcting the record. This is a group of bitter, old degenerate gamblers, unhappy with their gambling results and life, so they attack and try to discredit players that have registered some success. I am not going to allow them to lie about my accomplishments, of which I am proud, without correcting the record.

The timing seemed a bit of a coincidence. You went through this 200+ post ordeal with Alan about accumulating EV and then BAM you suffered your worst week ever perhaps.

In sports, we had a couple of sayings. 1.) Never talk about something bad happening, because it will. 2.) IT's bad to talk about something good that happened as it bring bad juju to the next game. Matthew 23-12. I've never seen this scripture more evident than in a casino.

The money joke is commonly used in a sportsbook when one sees or hears about another betting far more than they did. I've got a multi-millionaire that likes to shadow my bets at $5 a pop. Ironic, the guys that bet the least scream the most. The guys who bets the most doesn't even watch the game. I can't say about the blackjack tables because it's just me...and I don't hang around for post game interviews. If you know what I mean.

[kewlJ]

For the hundredth time, I don't know anything about poker, Bill. I don't play. Never played a single hand of poker.

WTF! I know it is not politically correct to say retarded, but are you fucking retarded? You keep asking me the same shit about poker, when I don't know a thing about poker and have never played.

[Bill Yung]

And of course the nasty lie about my late partner.

It wasn't his house? You didn't sell it as soon as he was in the ground? He didn't drive you around to the casinos? (In which other ways did he support your "habit"?) You weren't so shocked, and, then, over-grieved by his death that you didn't think to keep all of that off stuff about him the internet? You don't have some serious psychological or emotional issues to begin with?

Nothing about you fits a professional gambler who makes millions. Everything points the other way.

[Moses]

Ahem. Perhaps delusional is a more politically correct word? The other is a little harsh when considering those less fortunate.

[Bill Yung]

For the hundredth time, I don't know anything about poker, Bill. I don't play. Never played a single hand of poker.

WTF! I know it is not politically correct to say retarded, but are you fucking retarded? You keep asking me the same shit about poker, when I don't know a thing about poker and have never played.

You can't back up what you wrote, so you call me names. Nice.

[Bill Yung]

KJ. Could it be you've allowed Alan, Bill, and Singer to get in your head? Understand I'm not criticizing. Flash got in my head. Remember the game to be won is in the casino. Not on the forum.

The AP's "attack" Singer to put up another smoke screen. Another AP obsession to go with their imaginary casino lives. They literally can't get enough of either.

[Bill Yung]

Ahem. Perhaps delusional is a more politically correct word? The other is a little harsh when considering those less fortunate.

"Psychos".

[Moses]

The AP's "attack" Singer to put up another smoke screen. Another AP obsession to go with their imaginary casino lives. They literally can't get enough of either.

Speaking of Singer. Good Italian food is a rare find in my area as you probably know. Have you tried what they are advertising at Applebees?

[Moses]

Ahem. Perhaps delusional is a more politically correct word? The other is a little harsh when considering those less fortunate.

"Psychos".

Naw. Now you're talking Norman.

[redietz]

The only problem I have with Bill is that when he actually tries to say something concrete, it's clear he doesn't know much regarding whatever he's talking about. So it's all just factless jibber jabber, not that there's anything wrong with that. The issue is that he doesn't provide an asterisk at the bottom stating, "This is all just factless jibber jabber."


No law against spouting about things you know nothing about.

[kewlJ]

The timing seemed a bit of a coincidence. You went through this 200+ post ordeal with Alan about accumulating EV and then BAM you suffered your worst week ever perhaps.

The timing only seems odd to you Moses, because you are somewhat new here. The accumulated EV discussion began 10 months ago, the very first week in January. That is when I posted about that particular experience. And I happened to experience the worst week of my 15 year blackjack career a couple weeks ago (9 months later) and I posted about that. That is what I have done for 15 years on whatever site I have been part of....shared my experiences...the good the bad and the ugly. You have known me a long time Moses...is that not what I have done on various forums?


And before the accumulated EV discussion with Alan, it was tracking a second table. I happened to mention that I track a second table when I can....when that opportunity is available. Alan, who doesn't even play blackjack, flew into a rage, deciding that was impossible. This discussion began late at night and Alan, jumped up at 3am in the morning and drove to one of the strip properties and took blurry pictures of a blackjack table.

I tried to cut Alan some slack, realizing that he was not a blackjack player, and so hearing this concept it seemed unlikely to him. So I directed him to where numerous known players, past and present have stated that they track a second table....WHEN THEY CAN. Players you know, Don Schlesinger, Richard Munchkin, 21forme, bigplayer.

I even had private conversations with Munchkin, asking if he would post here. He took one look at this site and said "no". He did say he would talk about tracking a second table on his radio show during the next listener's question segment. I don't know if he ever did. I also thought about asking Don Schlesinger to respond here, but decided I just couldn't subject him to this forum and cast of assholes. But Don did state on BJinfo that he has been tracking a second table for 40 years....when the opportunity is available. I posted a link to that statement and still Alan continued for a year that because he, who doesn't even play blackjack, wouldn't be able to track a second table, that no one could.

And it has been no different with the accumulated EV thing. You got a guy, who doesn't even play blackjack, who has decided because he is not familiar with something, that it is impossible. And speaking of impossible, moses are you even familiar with Alan's main claim to fame? 18 y.o.'s in a row. And THAT tells you all you need to know about Alan and his credibility with anything that he says. 18 y.o.'s in a row!

[Bill Yung]

Redietz, nothing you write here or claim to do there bothers me. KJ, Moses, and the others less so. You see, contrary to what KJ writes, the haters aren't the ones we have to worry about. Background noise in the fabric of life.

Btw, there is such a law against idiots. Their own personal hell.

[BadBeet]

AP won't play a losing game unless they have an advantage...

IE... Comp / cash back to make-up for the expected loss of the game.

99.54% return is a losing deal. They wont play it. If they get 1% cash back, then it turns to a 100.54% game. Then they will play it. They will never consider "losing" even if they stop for the day down because they are playing 100.54%. At the same time, they are playing within limits to their bankroll so the "loss for the day" does not appear as devastating... They are able to go back the next day and continue with their +.54% EV game.

There are no losses in an AP's mind as long as they are playing in a +EV situation.

The difference between AP's and the rec player... The rec player eventually can't pull more money out of the ATM while an AP plays appropriately to their roll.

[kewlJ]

It wasn't his house? You didn't sell it as soon as he was in the ground?

Wrong. I paid for the house (from AP earning). Put 50% down and took out a mortgage that I paid off in 2 years. It was in my name only. After the house was paid off, last summer (2017), I transferred partial ownership into my partners name. This had nothing to do with my heart surgery that would take place just a couple months later. It had to do with security for my partner. I joke around a lot. It was an ongoing joke with my brother and I that whenever my partner said or did something I didn't care for, I would say something about putting him out on the streets. It was a bad joke that we carried too far and he began to feel insecure about his future, so I transferred ownership to include him. Technically, being legally married, that wasn't even necessary, but I did so anyway.

And yes, After my partner passed, I immediately made the decision to sell the house. It had nothing to do with finances. As a matter of fact, with real estate prices climbing in Vegas at the time and having continued to climb, financially, it probably would have been better to have waited a couple years until housing prices slowed. But my partner really picked out that house and location and furnished and decorated it as that was his kind of thing, not mine. And I just didn't want to come home to that kind of reminder everyday. I needed to move on with life.

The AP's "attack" Singer to put up another smoke screen. Another AP obsession to go with their imaginary casino lives. They literally can't get enough of either.

This is bullshit! When I came here, I attacked Singer's claims. Making a million dollars playing -EV video poker, employing voodoo things like progression betting and stop limits. Impossible claims that go against the mathematics involved. I attacked the claims, not the person.


It is Singer, who because he can't answer those challenges, because they go against the math involved, who attempts to deflect with his very personal attacks. And while I can't speak for the other AP's, I feel fairly certain, it played out the same way. I am fairly certain because I have seen it play out that way with others since I have been here, so I strongly suspect that is the way things went down with AP's before I got here. Singer simply can't answer the challenges to his claims because the math doesn't add up, so he deflects with very nasty personal attacks against anyone who points out that his math doesn't work. He is using alternative and voodoo math.

[Moses]

That is what I have done for 15 years on whatever site I have been part of....shared my experiences...the good the bad and the ugly. You have known me a long time Moses...is that not what I have done on various forums?

Yes. Some of those battles with T3 and Flash were of epic proportion. I don't mean to sound harsh. But do you honestly think you helped anyone?

The timing only seems odd to you Moses, because you are somewhat new here. The accumulated EV discussion began 10 months ago, the very first week in January. That is when I posted about that particular experience. And I happened to experience the worst week of my 15 year blackjack career a couple weeks ago (9 months later) and I posted about that.

Losing $29k would certainly give me pause and cause for redirection. There was a time when I made, what I thought, was an innocent post about my sports betting. I win over 60% of my bets and believe I should do at least 70% because many of my losses are excruciating. Like a 1/2 point or an overturned call with the replay review.

I caught hell as being a liar that even the best handicappers in the world are lucky to win 52%. At 52%, I wouldn't even screw with it. I bet only pro sports between 75 and 100 games a year. I know I'm at my best when I place the bet, go to sleep, and have to be reminded to check the score the next morning. Well Don S. got in my head over this 52% thing. A correction was forthcoming etc. etc. For about 6 weeks I could no longer pull the trigger which I'd been doing for years prior without giving it any thought. I was lucky because my picks during that time frame were the worst stretch ever. I redirected my focus and have been winning 70% on favorites and 57% on dogs since that point. However, bets are more in the 50 to 75 range annually.

[redietz]

I've slowly learned, BadBeet, that the rec players are the ones, surprisingly, who play huge chunks of bankroll on a per session or per day basis. I did not realize how outsized their investment per bet and per day were compared to their gambling bankrolls.

The only conclusions I can reasonably draw are that the "rec players" really are hooked on some kind of tightrope-walking financial risk on a per session basis. There's an emotional component in play. Maybe a need to be daring in some sense, or "bad boys" by doing something not culturally approved (going broke being a bad thing, unless you're a NJ Trump casino). There are questions about when do you back off a positive EV situation. The questions seem to be about managing emotions, or suffering caused by losing sessions. The questions really do not make much sense from a math perspective. Quick aside: Argentino's winning of 85% of his sessions appears to tie into this. Who cares what percent of sessions one wins? It's a very odd (and inappropriate) way of keeping score. It falls into the category of needing/wanting to walk away from a session emotionally "happy."

It makes the category "rec player" almost an oxymoron, because per session or per day, the "rec players" seem to have much more invested both materially and non-materially. They are more affected by whatever happens. It's the opposite of what one would surmise when employing the phrase "recreational player."

[kewlJ]

That is what I have done for 15 years on whatever site I have been part of....shared my experiences...the good the bad and the ugly. You have known me a long time Moses...is that not what I have done on various forums?

I don't mean to sound harsh. But do you honestly think you helped anyone?

Yes, I do. I have shared my journey, almost in real time, like I say "the good, the bad and the ugly", so that newer type, aspiring players, or even those only considering a life of card counting, might know what is really involved in making a living from card counting.

On the forums that I have been on, card counters are a fairly tight lipped bunch. If and when they talk about their journey, it is rather heavy on the success part. They conveniently leave out the weeks, even months long losing periods, the 29k losing weeks, which in fairness I hadn't experienced until a couple weeks ago. But even the 10k losing weeks....how often do you read about these losses from the card counters that we know on forums. They go heavy on the success, but skim over the rough parts.


On the old blackjackinfo, one of the members, Creeping Panther, accused me of doing some of that. he said I was painting a "rosey picture". I didn't think I was, but I have really tried to share my experiences and journey in it's entirety ever since. The winning and losing. The backoffs. I basically "lost" my first home-base location, Atlantic City. As everyone knows AC can't back off or bar players, but they made it so I couldn't play a winning game. That is how I even ended up in Vegas.

I have shared all aspects of my journey, winning and losing. Four (4) different 6 month losing periods and the emotions that I went through during them, especially the first one, that was new to me. On Wizards forum, I shared in great detail my 2014. Blackjack results 27 thousand dollars, compared to 87,000 accumulated EV or "expectation" or expected win. 27 grand! That's about what a fulltime fast food employee makes. It wasn't pleasant to share that.

But I wanted to share what being a card counter for a living really was. Not the movie "21" version. And I do think I have helped some players and potential players. I think I have helped a few know what they can really expect. Helped them understand why we NEED a large bankroll to withstand the swings. And you know what, I think there have probably been a few that read my accounts and decided Screw that. Card counting is not for me. So yeah, I think I have helped some players, even helped some decide, CCing was not for them.

[Bill Yung]

Onehit, you got your ass kicked off this forum. Then you got kicked off as Bill Yung. How the hell did you get back on, weasel?

Simple. This forum is currently unmoderated due to Dan's health issues. To be honest, it wasn't a whole lot better pre-Dan's health issues as Dan only took an interest on rare occasions. One of those occasions was onehitwonder. Remember Dan banned him and OHW, came back like a dozen times in the next 48 hours, until Dan figured out what he was doing and finally put an end to it?

Well now Dan is now here, nor capable of putting it that effort, so this OHW/Bill young clown is taking advantage of Dan's situation and absence. Just another example of what a low life he is.

Speaking of more actual lies, and other misrepresentations. It was Johno who came back several times to harass LarryS. I don't recall my much engaging LarryS. Ha, KJ, learn to add question marks to your outright libel of others.

Looks like Crimm had another email convo with Dan, and, backed off his allegations that I was even banned from here. Looks like.

Speaking of Johno, he seems to have vanished from the forums. An eerie or haunting feeling for we who came to know him.

[kewlJ]

It was Johno who came back several times to harass LarryS. I don't recall my much engaging LarryS.

Yeah, I guess that is correct. I think I was sort of thinking that bill yung WAS Johno. But with no evidence of that (other than a feeling), I will admit that I remembered the incident wrong and offer my apology.

add on: Sometimes I sort of blend all you anti-AP, anti-Math, anti-reality together, knowing that half of you are sock puppets anyway.

[Moses]

I tried to cut Alan some slack, realizing that he was not a blackjack player, and so hearing this concept it seemed unlikely to him. So I directed him to where numerous known players, past and present have stated that they track a second table....WHEN THEY CAN. Players you know, Don Schlesinger, Richard Munchkin, 21forme, bigplayer.

I even had private conversations with Munchkin, asking if he would post here. He took one look at this site and said "no". He did say he would talk about tracking a second table on his radio show during the next listener's question segment. I don't know if he ever did. I also thought about asking Don Schlesinger to respond here, but decided I just couldn't subject him to this forum and cast of assholes. But Don did state on BJinfo that he has been tracking a second table for 40 years....when the opportunity is available. I posted a link to that statement and still Alan continued for a year that because he, who doesn't even play blackjack, wouldn't be able to track a second table, that no one could.

Here is the deal KJ. I don't believe it's possible to count two tables at the same time. Nor do I believe Bill Yung could build a spaceship that will take him to Jupiter. However, some believe he is already their.

The difference between you and the names you listed above is they don't give two shits about who believes them or who doesn't. Your passion to prove has a way of lessening your credibility. Remember my story about the old bull and the young bull?

BTW excellent post #77.