Originally Posted by kewlJ View Post
Originally Posted by AxelWolf View Post
Originally Posted by kewlJ View Post

Spoken by a guy that has no clue about advantage play or advantage players. Obviously blackjack advantage players get backed off regularly. Hell at the really sweaty joints, like El Cortez, South Point, Valley Forge in Pa, just to name a few, any winning player gets backed off. THAT is how paranoid some casinos are.

The good player learn from these backoffs. The one's that refuse to learn have short careers, whether that be professional or recreational career.

Now machine AP's for the most part, have been exempt from this kind of casino paranoia. But that is changing. Casinos are identifying and cracking down on machine AP. Here in Vegas that crackdown has been led by Boyd. It is also occurring in Pennsylvania and probably other locations I am not familiar with and will grow. I fear the future for my machine AP brothers will involve having to decide to play unrated and lose that part of the advantage, which in some cases is what makes the whole play +EV. There may come a time when AP's have to stop chasing the handpay jackpots. Machine AP's will be grinder type players and someone like mickeycrimm is already well positioned.

One of the ways a casino or casino chain cracks down on AP's is to have a bogus promotion, that will draw advantage player, and then identify everyone who shows up and put them in some sort of database that is shared. This was common with blackjack players a few years back (haven't seen much recently). And this was one of my first thoughts yesterday when I read Axelwolf's April fools promotion at Rampart. If it wasn't April fools day and that promotion has been real and at a boyd property, say, Suncoast, I would have said Watch out.

Anyway, in answer to the OP's question, there will come a time in the not to distant future where machine AP's will have to decide whether it is worth it to play rated, just like blackjack players have had to make that decision for a while now. That time, may not be right now, but it is fast approaching.
"One of the ways a casino or casino chain cracks down on AP's is to have a bogus promotion, that will draw advantage player, and then identify everyone who shows up and put them in some sort of database that is shared."

 Can you give me some examples of this and perhaps some type of documentation such as some court discovery records or testimony, perhaps a darksiders confession or something to make be believe this is true when it comes to slots? And even some blackjack promotions where the intent was to get AP's. How can this not be considered faults advertising. I can imagine if anyone ever got in some type of altercation with the casino or something bad were to happen. The casino would have a big problem.

I know some AP's individually have been tricked by a host or management to come in so they could 86 them. I'm almost certain I was offered a comp by management after a dispute I had and they looked into my account further(basically they wouldn't cash my ticket because I didnt have my card in). They even called me more than once trying to get me to come use the comp. It just didnt feel normal to me especially their tone it just didnt seem genuine. I didnt go, but they got me a few months after that anyways when I hit a jackpot. I kinda knew better than to play in there on something I could hit a jackpot on, but it was a good situation so I did.
What? Documentation? Court discovery? WTF are you talking about?

What I am talking about is a blackjack "promotion" where blackjack AP's showed up and were immediately 86ed. I can recall two such cases, one here in Vegas.

I didn't say this occurred to slot players / AP's. But the climate is now changing for machine AP's. I would be aware of the possibility (if I was a machine AP). The rules are changing that's all I am saying.

Usually these "sting" promos are not advertised to the general public. They target AP's, through mail and emails. I am not a legal expert but I would guess it is the small print, that always says something about any promo can be cancelled at any time at the casino's discretion, that frees them from any liability.
Sorry I may have misunderstood. I thought you were claiming they were doing this with slots now. Sure they can cancel a promo. I don't think they can run a promo for the purpose of banning AP's, at least not a public promo. Let me ask more about the stings you do know about. More details please. It's a very interesting subject. Are they doing it one person at a time, in small groups? How many times do you know where you are 100% sure this is what was going on? I'm just wondering if any casino has ever admitted doing this or if it was somehow proven or if any darksider has suggested this and then it happend.