Originally Posted by AxelWolf View Post
Originally Posted by kewlJ View Post
Wait a minute now! As a frequent reader of this forum, I have been repeatedly told by the likes of the great Rob Singer and other recently banned members that there is no longer any such thing as professional blackjack players. What gives?

I am very much looking forward to seeing this video. It has been a long time in the making....a long time coming. Looks like release date is next month.

I'll reserve judgement until seeing the film but it looks like the approach used and that many of the recent teams like the church team have employed is what I call the "slaughter approach", as in shear vs slaughter. Aggressive, high stakes play, with as large stakes as will allow, for as long as they will allow it. The thinking being there are now hundreds, even thousands of casinos....burn 'em all out! A number of solo players have also recently adopted this same burn 'em out approach. Players usually get a couple years in....maybe less and they are done, unable to get a game anywhere.

My own approach to the game is just about as opposite as can be. Longevity, find levels that are better tolerated. I think the term "adventure" is important here as that plays into what these kind of short term deals, rack up as much as you can as long as you can approaches are about as much as anything. An adventure, but nor really a career. But I am looking forward to it and hope we can have some legitimate discussion after some of us see it.
I'm not in-favor of burning yourself out from casinos, however, if they can make more in a couple of years than you can over 20 years, I would have to think that's a much better deal. Its not like they would be totally out of the AP game. I don't know how well changing your name or using Fake ID's in vegas works for BJ(slots and VP would be more difficult, but it could be done using a legal name change and a tax ID number), but lets assume one did, perhaps they could then slow down and implement your style if they wanted to. Lets not forget they could travel to other countries as well. What is better make a few million in 2 years or 2 million in 20 years? Without a doubt, if you could choose 2 million in a few years that is a much better path IMHO. Because, if you are good enough to do that, you should be smart/good enough to use that 2 million to make even more money.
I'm going to have to come to the defense of my arch menace, Kj, on this one. I don't believe the "slash and burn" style gets you more money in the long run or short run. Take the church team, which is a big advocate of playing with no cover and spreading big until you get kicked out. The numbers Blackjack Apprenticeship throws out there sound impressive until you dig a little deeper, which I've done by reading and listening to every interview Colin and people on his team have done. As most know, I was a member on that site until I got the boot for defending casinos for doing what they're suppose to do, and liking to tip. But that's another story.

The church team operated for about 7 years with at times 20 to 30 members, but most the time it had more like 15 members and made about $4 million. This sounds impressive until you run the numbers. I did a rough calculation and this comes to about $20/hr, probably less if you include travel time and costs. This is supported by the movie, Holly Rollers, where they show team members celebrating in large numbers once they have "closed a bank". What do these checks look like? Only a couple thousand dollars, which is what I've made in a weekend, and I'm a red chipper. Obviously, this isn't every weekend.

This was brought up by some new members on BJA. They were surprised by how small the checks were in the Holly Roller movie once "the bank" was closed. Colin defended this by saying the investors in the church team made much more than this. Basically, the investors were taking advantage of the church grunts doing all the work. It looked like the grunts could have probably made about the same amount working a minimum wage part time job, and not had all the travel expenses and inconvenience of being away from home.

What about Colin? He claims to have made about $600,000 and his hourly rate is supposedly about $340/hr. Again, this sounds impressive until you run the numbers, which I did. If you consider he played for 7 years this comes to less than $100,000/yr, which is about what kj makes and Kj doesn't play this style, and he doesn't have to travel. As far as how Colin calculated his hourly win rate, I expect he didn't include his travel time or travel costs. If you'd included all that, it'd probably come down to more like $100/hr. I'm just speculating here. I know he got backed off a lot (he said between 50 and 100 times) so I know he was travelling a lot. He probably can't play close to his home base.

Bottom line is I don't think the "slash and burn" style is as effective at getting the money as some claim.

I am looking forward to seeing this movie, and reading the book Colin is soon to publish. I wonder if he's going to include a chapter on how he backed me and other members off who questioned or defended practices he believes in. He's big on criticizing casinos when they back people off, but seems to think it's okay when he backs people off. I broke no rules when I was on BJA. I never called anybody names and I never criticized their bootcamp, although I think it's a joke and he's taking advantage of young kids who have dreams of striking it rich in a casino. BJA plays to people's greed, which is why it's done well.

That brings me back to this forum. It's the only forum I've found where I can express my views and not fear a backoff. That's why this is the best site on the internet, and it's thanks to Dan, and the other people who participate here. Even though I have my quarrels with Kj, I have learned from him and I enjoy reading his posts. Kj's problem is he takes these things way to seriously.