GWAE episode with "The Doc"

[tableplay]

I have to disagree with this About Bob dancer. He's able to figure out lots of different angles and take advantage of them. He started out doing those types of things. The question would be, if he had to abandon the high limit play stuff with thin edges would he be motivated enough to actually do some of the other things needed in order to make money? I have no doubt the guy is smart enough to master any aspect of the AP if he his mind and time into it. There is no doubt he has the connections to get involved with any aspect of Advantage play. A fairly certain that people would be willing to teach and spoon-feed him all the information he needed or wanted. And he either has the bank roll or can get a hold of it in order to do those things without the fear of losing.

Hopefully you'll at least agree that the guy's a dick. It's quite a deterrent to getting good guests on. Sure the show has some excellent people on like Math Boy,Rob Reitzen, Mickey, and so forth, but it's hit and miss. I concede your point that if Dancer is spoon fed he could learn some shit.

[jbjb]

I have to disagree with this About Bob dancer. He's able to figure out lots of different angles and take advantage of them. He started out doing those types of things. The question would be, if he had to abandon the high limit play stuff with thin edges would he be motivated enough to actually do some of the other things needed in order to make money? I have no doubt the guy is smart enough to master any aspect of the AP if he his mind and time into it. There is no doubt he has the connections to get involved with any aspect of Advantage play. A fairly certain that people would be willing to teach and spoon-feed him all the information he needed or wanted. And he either has the bank roll or can get a hold of it in order to do those things without the fear of losing.

Sure he, and anyone, can figure these things. Mine, and many others, issues is he MUST use players cards. To us, that's a very weak form of AP because you aren't AP'ing the game. You're AP'ing the marketing department.

As I said, take away all of his cards and he wouldn't be much of an AP playing VP.

[Rob.Singer]

Dancer only plays VP and jbjb is right--he's mostly ap'ing the card benefits. To be an income-generating AP these days you need to include other games into the arsenal. However, he's not going to alter his approach or his show now because he's solidly set in his ways at an advanced age. Had he wanted to 20 years ago, instead of putting a lot of effort into his gaming business, I believe he had the ability to do just as well as anybody in the versatile ap world.

The reason he has some duds for shows is for the same reason some of his articles are stinkers: you run out of interesting material after a while. How often can you discuss the same things over and over? That's why I thought it was a good idea when Mickey suggested I be a guest to talk about my years playing the double up glitch. But the guy apparently is set in his ways about me also, although it was me who caused that feeling.

[jbjb]

How often can you discuss the same things over and over?

Which brings us back to my blackjack quote:

"Card counting is boring. Talking about it online is 10,000x more boring."

It's been discussed to death for the last 50+ years.

[mickeycrimm]

I have to disagree with this About Bob dancer. He's able to figure out lots of different angles and take advantage of them. He started out doing those types of things. The question would be, if he had to abandon the high limit play stuff with thin edges would he be motivated enough to actually do some of the other things needed in order to make money? I have no doubt the guy is smart enough to master any aspect of the AP if he his mind and time into it. There is no doubt he has the connections to get involved with any aspect of Advantage play. A fairly certain that people would be willing to teach and spoon-feed him all the information he needed or wanted. And he either has the bank roll or can get a hold of it in order to do those things without the fear of losing.

Dancer has at times said he misses blackjack and expressed a desire to go back to it someday. He's in his 70's now so I think he's missed the boat on that.

[kewlJ]

How often can you discuss the same things over and over?

Which brings us back to my blackjack quote:

"Card counting is boring. Talking about it online is 10,000x more boring."

It's been discussed to death for the last 50+ years.

Ok, so jbjb finds talk about card counting boring. I guess that means No one can discuss card counting....even though it is a forum supposed to be about gambling advantage play topics.

Anything else we are not allowed to discuss jbjb?

Hey do you go to a coin collecting forum and complain about discussing coin collecting?

Freaking retard.

[The Boz]

How often can you discuss the same things over and over?

Which brings us back to my blackjack quote:

"Card counting is boring. Talking about it online is 10,000x more boring."

It's been discussed to death for the last 50+ years.

Ok, so jbjb finds talk about card counting boring. I guess that means No one can discuss card counting....even though it is a forum supposed to be about gambling advantage play topics.

Anything else we are not allowed to discuss jbjb?

Hey do you go to a coin collecting forum and complain about discussing coin collecting?

Freaking retard.

First off I have solo rights to using the word “retard” here.

2nd, we already have a retard so you have to come up with insult to use.

Thanks and have a Great Day!

[DGenBen]

I have to disagree with this About Bob dancer. He's able to figure out lots of different angles and take advantage of them. He started out doing those types of things. The question would be, if he had to abandon the high limit play stuff with thin edges would he be motivated enough to actually do some of the other things needed in order to make money? I have no doubt the guy is smart enough to master any aspect of the AP if he his mind and time into it. There is no doubt he has the connections to get involved with any aspect of Advantage play. A fairly certain that people would be willing to teach and spoon-feed him all the information he needed or wanted. And he either has the bank roll or can get a hold of it in order to do those things without the fear of losing.

Sure he, and anyone, can figure these things. Mine, and many others, issues is he MUST use players cards. To us, that's a very weak form of AP because you aren't AP'ing the game. You're AP'ing the marketing department.

As I said, take away all of his cards and he wouldn't be much of an AP playing VP.

How much VP could an AP AP if an AP could only AP VP with no PCC?

[tableplay]

I have to disagree with this About Bob dancer. He's able to figure out lots of different angles and take advantage of them. He started out doing those types of things. The question would be, if he had to abandon the high limit play stuff with thin edges would he be motivated enough to actually do some of the other things needed in order to make money? I have no doubt the guy is smart enough to master any aspect of the AP if he his mind and time into it. There is no doubt he has the connections to get involved with any aspect of Advantage play. A fairly certain that people would be willing to teach and spoon-feed him all the information he needed or wanted. And he either has the bank roll or can get a hold of it in order to do those things without the fear of losing.

Sure he, and anyone, can figure these things. Mine, and many others, issues is he MUST use players cards. To us, that's a very weak form of AP because you aren't AP'ing the game. You're AP'ing the marketing department.

As I said, take away all of his cards and he wouldn't be much of an AP playing VP.

How much VP could an AP AP if an AP could only AP VP with no PCC?

Dancer the Clown, that's his name
Shilling for comps, that's his game
Looking for tokes, by blowing out folks
and if he gives you an evil look
you'll end up in the Griffin Book
Reporting on Plays to bosses
resulting in APs' uncountable losses
it's a list that never ends
and so it is that he has few friends

[kewlJ]

Sure he, and anyone, can figure these things. Mine, and many others, issues is he MUST use players cards. To us, that's a very weak form of AP because you aren't AP'ing the game. You're AP'ing the marketing department.

As I said, take away all of his cards and he wouldn't be much of an AP playing VP.

How much VP could an AP AP if an AP could only AP VP with no PCC?

Dancer the Clown, that's his name
Shilling for comps, that's his game
Looking for tokes, by blowing out folks
and if he gives you an evil look
you'll end up in the Griffin Book
Reporting on Plays to bosses
resulting in APs' uncountable losses
it's a list that never ends
and so it is that he has few friends

That is some heavy accusations, tableplay. Do you know all this for fact or just respreading some speculation?

[Rob.Singer]

Dancer is simply out for himself first--making money any which way possible either inside or a little bit outside the box. I've never had any problem with that because it is not all that different from how I operated. If he has to deceive a casino to make a buck then he does it. If he has to cause trouble for other players to make a score then he isn't beyond that either. It's why he's successful.

[The Boz]

Dancer is simply out for himself first--making money any which way possible either inside or a little bit outside the box. I've never had any problem with that because it is not all that different from how I operated. If he has to deceive a casino to make a buck then he does it. If he has to cause trouble for other players to make a score then he isn't beyond that either. It's why he's successful.

It’s also why few will shed a tear when he is gone. We all make choices, I doubt he cares if fucking people over has allowed him a better life.

[kewlJ]

There are AP's that "consult" for the casino industry, like Wong and Shackleford. I don't have a problem with that. I don't tell people how or how not to make a buck.

But then there are people like Eliot Jacobson or going back many year Lawrence Revere in the BJ community that are traitors and will rat out fellow AP's including names and personal info.

Frankly I can never be sure the first kind won't evolve into the second kind somewhere down the road, which is why I have always been hesitant and very selective about meeting other AP's. If I am not partnering with someone or doing business like selling a shuffle machine, I just don't see much benefit and I know that seems to offend some fellow AP's.

[kewlJ]

It is very clear that Dancer is the first kind. I have heard rumors of the second but haven't heard anyone definitively say so based on firsthand knowledge, which is why I ask.

[tableplay]

How much VP could an AP AP if an AP could only AP VP with no PCC?

Dancer the Clown, that's his name
Shilling for comps, that's his game
Looking for tokes, by blowing out folks
and if he gives you an evil look
you'll end up in the Griffin Book
Reporting on Plays to bosses
resulting in APs' uncountable losses
it's a list that never ends
and so it is that he has few friends

That is some heavy accusations, tableplay. Do you know all this for fact or just respreading some speculation?

He was overheard outing some APs. The person doing the overhearing is a reliable source. I have no further comments.

[jbjb]

Dancer the Clown, that's his name
Shilling for comps, that's his game
Looking for tokes, by blowing out folks
and if he gives you an evil look
you'll end up in the Griffin Book
Reporting on Plays to bosses
resulting in APs' uncountable losses
it's a list that never ends
and so it is that he has few friends

That is some heavy accusations, tableplay. Do you know all this for fact or just respreading some speculation?

He was overheard outing some APs. The person doing the overhearing is a reliable source. I have no further comments.

Ask all of the AP's he screwed over on the Revel offer.

[Rob.Singer]

That is some heavy accusations, tableplay. Do you know all this for fact or just respreading some speculation?

He was overheard outing some APs. The person doing the overhearing is a reliable source. I have no further comments.

Ask all of the AP's he screwed over on the Revel offer.

What did he do that screwed them over at Revel?

[AxelWolf]

He was overheard outing some APs. The person doing the overhearing is a reliable source. I have no further comments.

Ask all of the AP's he screwed over on the Revel offer.

What did he do that screwed them over at Revel?

CDC originally stood for Compton and Dancer Consulting, I have no idea if or what connection Bob dancer has to that business anymore. They did in fact consult with casinos what promotions they shouldn't run and which ones to stop.

Rob, you need to listen to the gambling with an edge podcast talking about the Ravel promotion. It almost seems as if Bob dancer has a slip of the tongue. Something about him mentioning to a manager friend how they would get beat. Richard munchkin actually called him on it. Bob dancers excuse was something about not wanting the casino to go under, because he would like to have the opportunity to teach classes there. Again, this is memory from quite a while ago that's why I suggest you listen to it and make your own judgment. What was actually said or done may have been blown out of proportion a little bit, I really have no clue, hell, it could have been worse than what we actually know. The whole thing seemed a little white washed to me.

I have never known Bob dancer to name names or Point people out individually.
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KJ, I don't buy all your excuses of why you don't meet up with people, you are always giving one reason or another, and again, I'm just not buying it. It doesn't really matter, it's your business if you have something to hide, you have your reasons. I know I wouldn't want to meet up with somebody only to have them spot me as a 1-5 red chipper in the future and then they out me to the forums. And of course, if I swung the other way, I certainly wouldn't want people recognizing me over in the gay district hopping in the back of cars while getting paid for my booty action.

just busting your....um.... well, you know.

[kewlJ]

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KJ, I don't buy all your excuses of why you don't meet up with people, you are always giving one reason or another, and again, I'm just not buying it. It doesn't really matter, it's your business if you have something to hide, you have your reasons. I know I wouldn't want to meet up with somebody only to have them spot me as a 1-5 red chipper in the future and then they out me to the forums. And of course, if I swung the other way, I certainly wouldn't want people recognizing me over in the gay district hopping in the back of cars while getting paid for my booty action.

just busting your....um.... well, you know.

That's a good one Axel. I am a red chipper. I live in my mother's basement and work the French fry machine at MickeyD's. That will be the narrative tomorrow from the haters, like the clown on the Island. With friends like you....

Now about your constant gay references. I know you say that is how you are....all the gay jokes. And your friends from the other forum back that up and tell me I shouldn't take offense, that is how you are. And I don't take offense at humor. Believe me, I have heard it all.

But I gotta say, and I don't mean this as an attack, but I have never met a supposed straight guy, THIS obsessed with gay so called humor. Everyone I have ever known so completely obsessed turns out to have one hell of a huge closet. Maybe you are the exception, I don't know. We'll check back in about 15 years.

[kewlJ]

I'm going to repeat this story. I think I have relayed it before here. It was back on Ken Smith's Blackjack info, which was my first forum. I was still living in Philly and was playing Atlantic City, mostly with a couple annual trips to Vegas and places like Connecticut. It was probably 2007, 2008, so towards the end of My AC period. I had learned a lot from some of the guys at blackjackinfo. That was a real forum where players were willing to share their experiences and knowledge for the benefit of other players, especially newer players. I don't see that any more these days. AP's rarely give up anything unless it is something from the past.

So anyway, one of my favorite posters on that forum started having these annual get-togethers, in the Midwest where he was from. A few people like MWP can probably verify. MWP, you attended a couple "Blackjack bashes" didn't you? So anyway, I was all set to go to one of these gatherings. I was really looking forward to meeting some members that had helped me so much. At the last minute just days before I got this gut feeling that it was a bad idea and didn't go.

As it turns out almost everybody that attended experienced a losing trip and what's worse, un-be-knowns to them at the time, many found their way into the databases and experienced some issues as time went on. It was months later that I was informed that this member, who happened to be of native American heritage, received a kickback from the native American casino where this event was held and that he frequented regularly. Several different sources have confirmed this to me over the years.

While I don't have absolute proof....the type of proof that would hold up in court....that gut feeling served me well and probably because of the way it turned out, solidified my position that I just don't see much benefit for a solo type card counter, which is what I basically am, to meet up with other forum members. And in my 16th year of supporting myself solely from card/counting /AP (mostly card counting), that early decision (and gut feeling) has served me well. I have been able to do what I do for 16 years.

I do think it is a little different for machine players and other AP's than traditional card counters. For Card counter's it has been described a cat and mouse game with the casino industry for years. I think more accurate might be espionage and spies and traitors. But I think this is all catching up to the non-blackjack type AP's now. You guys are starting to experience the same shit we (card counters) have been dealing with for decades....since before my time. And you guys are going to have to start be a little more careful as well, if you have visions of longevity. That is just the era we are in.