JBJB is a stand-up guy. The BDs he's been exposed to may not be a play, but I have no way to stop you guys from assuming whatever you're going to assume. As for me, I just use Mickey's numbers and they have worked out great. That is, at 75 cents (I'm a one-bit guy, I won't even play higher denoms than this unless I see something obscene, which hasn't happened yet), I use 42+ games for the 2x,103+ for the 3x and I don't even involve the 4x in my decision-making process. I have been a net winner using Mickey's numbers. I assume I'll pick up a wheel about every 130 spins (75 cent denom), and that I have about a 1/3 chance of picking up the 2x or 3x when I do get the wheel. I've caught the 4x before but I just think of it as gravy. If I see a lower number for the 2x and 3x like say 35 for the 2x and some mid-50s 3x, I might take that also. MC gives the value of the 2x and 3x games so it is easy to calculate the 2x/3x combo that makes it +EV.